LPS ENDOTOXINS

[June]

Can anyone tell me if lipopolysaccharide (LPS) is simply a biofilm? If we destroy the biofilm, does that take care of the LPS toxin?

 

[mostlylurking]

Can anyone tell me if lipopolysaccharide (LPS) is simply a biofilm? If we destroy the biofilm, does that take care of the LPS toxin?

LPS is not simply a biofilm.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.chemrev.0c01321

"Lipopolysaccharide (LPS) is a crucial constituent of the outer membrane of most Gram-negative bacteria, playing a fundamental role in the protection of bacteria from environmental stress factors, in drug resistance, in pathogenesis, and in symbiosis. During the last decades, LPS has been thoroughly dissected, and massive information on this fascinating biomolecule is now available. In this Review, we will give the reader a third millennium update of the current knowledge of LPS with key information on the inherent peculiar carbohydrate chemistry due to often puzzling sugar residues that are uniquely found on it. Then, we will drive the reader through the complex and multifarious immunological outcomes that any given LPS can raise, which is strictly dependent on its chemical structure. Further, we will argue about issues that still remain unresolved and that would represent the immediate future of LPS research. It is critical to address these points to complete our notions on LPS chemistry, functions, and roles, in turn leading to innovative ways to manipulate the processes involving such a still controversial and intriguing biomolecule."

If you search for "lipopolysaccharide and thiamine" interesting articles appear:

Thiamine Supplementation Alleviates Lipopolysaccharide-Triggered Adaptive Inflammatory Response and Modulates Energy State via Suppression of NFκB/p38 MAPK/AMPK Signaling in Rumen Epithelial Cells of Goats

Studies have shown that exogenous thiamine (THI) supplementation can alleviate inflammation and promote rumen epithelial development in goats and cows. This research aimed to evaluate the effect of THI supplementation on LPS-induced inflammation and energy ...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/physiol.2023.38.S1.5731488

Dietary supplementation of thiamine enhances colonic integrity and modulates mucosal inflammation injury in goats challenged by lipopolysaccharide and low pH | British Journal of Nutrition | Cambridge Core

Dietary supplementation of thiamine enhances colonic integrity and modulates mucosal inflammation injury in goats challenged by lipopolysaccharide and low pH - Volume 128 Issue 11

www.cambridge.org

"The results show that dietary thiamine supplementation could improve the colon epithelial barrier function and alleviate mucosal inflammation injury in goats after lipopolysaccharide and low pH challenge."

 

[Peatress]

I didn't know thiamine does that too @mostlylurking Is there anything thiamine doesn't help with?

Also

Inhibition of CD38 and supplementation of nicotinamide riboside ameliorate lipopolysaccharide-induced microglial and astrocytic neuroinflammation by increasing NAD - PubMed

Neuroinflammation is initiated by activation of the brain's innate immune system in response to an inflammatory challenge. Insufficient control of neuroinflammation leads to enhanced or prolonged pathology in various neurological conditions including multiple sclerosis and Alzheimer's disease...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Niacinamide fully reverses endotoxemia and leaky gut (from ethanol)

The study below is a true gem due to both its broadness of impact, as well as the ease and low-cost of the therapeutic intervention it studied. Chronic endotoxemia, a cause and a result of increased gut permeability (aka "leaky gut") is now known to be a major cause of virtually all chronic...

raypeatforum.com

 

[mostlylurking]

I didn't know thiamine does that too @mostlylurking Is there anything thiamine doesn't help with?

Also

Inhibition of CD38 and supplementation of nicotinamide riboside ameliorate lipopolysaccharide-induced microglial and astrocytic neuroinflammation by increasing NAD - PubMed

Neuroinflammation is initiated by activation of the brain's innate immune system in response to an inflammatory challenge. Insufficient control of neuroinflammation leads to enhanced or prolonged pathology in various neurological conditions including multiple sclerosis and Alzheimer's disease...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Niacinamide fully reverses endotoxemia and leaky gut (from ethanol)

The study below is a true gem due to both its broadness of impact, as well as the ease and low-cost of the therapeutic intervention it studied. Chronic endotoxemia, a cause and a result of increased gut permeability (aka "leaky gut") is now known to be a major cause of virtually all chronic...

raypeatforum.com

Since thiamine is required for all cells to work properly there's a good chance that it would help in just about all issues. So I like to search for "thiamine" and "whatever the issue is". But the leaky gut thing has been a long term problem for me so I listened when Ray Peat advised me to try thiamine and magnesium to heal my gut inflammation a few years ago.

 

[Peatress]

Since thiamine is required for all cells to work properly there's a good chance that it would help in just about all issues. So I like to search for "thiamine" and "whatever the issue is". But the leaky gut thing has been a long term problem for me so I listened when Ray Peat advised me to try thiamine and magnesium to heal my gut inflammation a few years ago.

 

[Nebula]

Since thiamine is required for all cells to work properly there's a good chance that it would help in just about all issues. So I like to search for "thiamine" and "whatever the issue is". But the leaky gut thing has been a long term problem for me so I listened when Ray Peat advised me to try thiamine and magnesium to heal my gut inflammation a few years ago.

Is there a good alternative to thiamine Hcl that doesn’t make you reek like an enriched kid’s cereal bowl and doesn’t taste like death? Every time I try the hcl powder I stop within a few days for those reasons.

 

[mostlylurking]

I also take a Peaty amount (90mgs) of niacinamide 4Xday.

 

[mostlylurking]

Is there a good alternative to thiamine Hcl that doesn’t make you reek like an enriched kid’s cereal bowl and doesn’t taste like death? Every time I try the hcl powder I stop within a few days for those reasons.

The reek is the sulfur. The sulfur part is what binds to heavy metals which inactivates them (at least those atoms of it that bind to the sulfur). I doubt that the sublingual mononitrate would make you reek as bad as the amount is small but I'm pretty sure Ray Peat would warn you against it because of the nitrate part. The how-to info is here. Dr. Lonsdale said that because there's only 100mg in a tablet that it would not damage the kidneys as thiamine mononitrate is known to do. It doesn't taste so bad if you keep your tongue clamped down tight for maybe 20 minutes.

 

[sphenoid]

From my understanding, it is the destruction or lack of the natural biofilm that permits other microbes to grow and simultaneously the fragments of their dead membranes (LPS) to leak into circulation. This could be due to sympathetic dominance, which halts mucosal secretions with the gut, and/or dietary irritants/toxins.

 

[mostlylurking]

From my understanding, it is the destruction or lack of the natural biofilm that permits other microbes to grow and simultaneously the fragments of their dead membranes (LPS) to leak into circulation. This could be due to sympathetic dominance, which halts mucosal secretions with the gut, and/or dietary irritants/toxins.

suggested reading:

Thiamine and fatigue in inflammatory bowel diseases: an open-label pilot study - PubMed

The absence of blood thiamine deficiency and the efficacy of high-dose thiamine in our patients suggest that fatigue is the manifestation of a thiamine deficiency, likely due to a dysfunction of the active transport of thiamine inside the cells, or due to structural enzymatic abnormalities. The...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency? - Hormones Matter

Is it possible that small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) is simply a symptom of an underlying vitamin B1 or thiamine deficiency?

www.hormonesmatter.com

Thiamine Deficiency - A Potential Cause of SIBO and other Gut Dysfunction?

Thiamine deficiency - A consequence or cause of SIBO? In the previous article, I explained how SIBO and gut dysbiosis could increase the risk of thiamine deficiency. Thiamine's uptake from the gut may be disrupted in cases of malabsorption, which is a common feature of SIBO. The composition of...

www.eonutrition.co.uk

I went through a very hard time in 2020 after taking Bactrim antibiotic. This antibiotic is known to block thiamine function. My gut became extremely inflamed and I pooped little squiggles for months because the intestinal wall was so swollen. The Bactrim antibiotic had killed off the gut bacteria. The surviving gut bacteria were more virulent. They set up shop on my intestinal wall. I was very sick for months.

I recovered via high dose thiamine hcl and magnesium glycinate. This made a very big impression on me because I had suffered for many years with: leaky gut, multiple food allergies, strong gluten intolerance, arthritis, high inflammation. All of these symptoms vanished and have never come back. The high dose thiamine hcl normalized my gut bacteria and stopped the leaky gut. I still take the high dose thiamine hcl daily. It has been almost 3 years and I'm still healthy. I'm 73.

Dietary Vitamin B1 Intake Influences Gut Microbial Community and the Consequent Production of Short-Chain Fatty Acids

The gut microbiota is closely related to good health; thus, there have been extensive efforts dedicated to improving health by controlling the gut microbial environment. Probiotics and prebiotics are being developed to support a healthier intestinal environment. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thiamine and the Microbiome - Hormones Matter

Health depends on the 70-100 trillion single-celled organisms that live in our intestines.

www.hormonesmatter.com

 

[foodandtheworld]

Thiamine Deficiency - A Potential Cause of SIBO and other Gut Dysfunction?

Thiamine deficiency - A consequence or cause of SIBO? In the previous article, I explained how SIBO and gut dysbiosis could increase the risk of thiamine deficiency. Thiamine's uptake from the gut may be disrupted in cases of malabsorption, which is a common feature of SIBO. The composition of...

www.eonutrition.co.uk

I went through a very hard time in 2020 after taking Bactrim antibiotic. This antibiotic is known to block thiamine function. My gut became extremely inflamed and I pooped little squiggles for months because the intestinal wall was so swollen. The Bactrim antibiotic had killed off the gut bacteria. The surviving gut bacteria were more virulent. They set up shop on my intestinal wall. I was very sick for months.

I recovered via high dose thiamine hcl and magnesium glycinate. This made a very big impression on me because I had suffered for many years with: leaky gut, multiple food allergies, strong gluten intolerance, arthritis, high inflammation. All of these symptoms vanished and have never come back. The high dose thiamine hcl normalized my gut bacteria and stopped the leaky gut. I still take the high dose thiamine hcl daily. It has been almost 3 years and I'm still healthy. I'm 73.

Thanks for sharing this. Always helpful to know how the common supplements can help people.

 

[Ismail]

suggested reading:

Thiamine and fatigue in inflammatory bowel diseases: an open-label pilot study - PubMed

The absence of blood thiamine deficiency and the efficacy of high-dose thiamine in our patients suggest that fatigue is the manifestation of a thiamine deficiency, likely due to a dysfunction of the active transport of thiamine inside the cells, or due to structural enzymatic abnormalities. The...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency? - Hormones Matter

Is it possible that small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) is simply a symptom of an underlying vitamin B1 or thiamine deficiency?

www.hormonesmatter.com

Thiamine Deficiency - A Potential Cause of SIBO and other Gut Dysfunction?

Thiamine deficiency - A consequence or cause of SIBO? In the previous article, I explained how SIBO and gut dysbiosis could increase the risk of thiamine deficiency. Thiamine's uptake from the gut may be disrupted in cases of malabsorption, which is a common feature of SIBO. The composition of...

www.eonutrition.co.uk

I went through a very hard time in 2020 after taking Bactrim antibiotic. This antibiotic is known to block thiamine function. My gut became extremely inflamed and I pooped little squiggles for months because the intestinal wall was so swollen. The Bactrim antibiotic had killed off the gut bacteria. The surviving gut bacteria were more virulent. They set up shop on my intestinal wall. I was very sick for months.

I recovered via high dose thiamine hcl and magnesium glycinate. This made a very big impression on me because I had suffered for many years with: leaky gut, multiple food allergies, strong gluten intolerance, arthritis, high inflammation. All of these symptoms vanished and have never come back. The high dose thiamine hcl normalized my gut bacteria and stopped the leaky gut. I still take the high dose thiamine hcl daily. It has been almost 3 years and I'm still healthy. I'm 73.

Dietary Vitamin B1 Intake Influences Gut Microbial Community and the Consequent Production of Short-Chain Fatty Acids

The gut microbiota is closely related to good health; thus, there have been extensive efforts dedicated to improving health by controlling the gut microbial environment. Probiotics and prebiotics are being developed to support a healthier intestinal environment. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thiamine and the Microbiome - Hormones Matter

Health depends on the 70-100 trillion single-celled organisms that live in our intestines.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Wow!

Congratulations for figuring this out and happy to hear of your good health.

How much thiamine do you take?

Have you by any chance read this book on thiamine? (if so, what are your thoughts on it, if you don't mind me asking):

Thiamine Deficiency Disease, Dysautonomia, and High Calorie Malnutrition - by Derrick Lonsdale (Author), Chandler Marrs (Contributor) (Amazon product ASIN 0128103876View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thiamine-Deficiency-Disease-Dysautonomia-Malnutrition/dp/0128103876/ref=sr_1_1?crid=FG8B8MTUL9QJ&keywords=thiamine+deficiency+dr+derrick+lonsdale&qid=1686139182&sprefix=lonsdale+thiamine%2Caps%2C48&sr=8-1
)

I have incorporated taking B1 too, however if I don't take other b-vitamins with it (i.e. a complex), I start to feel a little stressed and tired and fatigued, do you also take a B-complex along with the high dose B1?

Thank you.

 

[David PS]

Can anyone tell me if lipopolysaccharide (LPS) is simply a biofilm? If we destroy the biofilm, does that take care of the LPS toxin?

Thanks for starting this thread.

The endotoxin CD38 increases with age, as shown in the image in the following thread.

CD38 Dictates Age-Related NAD Decline and Mitochondrial Dysfunction through an SIRT3-Dependent Mechanism

CD38 Dictates Age-Related NAD Decline and Mitochondrial Dysfunction through an SIRT3-Dependent Mechanism Highlights •CD38 levels increase in tissues with age and correlate with NAD decline •NAD and mitochondrial function are preserved in old CD38 knockout mice •CD38 metabolizes NMN in vivo and...

raypeatforum.com

I purchase dried parsely by the pound and I add it liberally to my foods. I also use charcoal to reduce LPS.

 

[mostlylurking]

Thanks for sharing this. Always helpful to know how the common supplements can help people.

You're welcome. There's a lot of info about thiamine on line. I've found Elliot Overton's articles and videos and also Dr. Lonsdale's articles to be very helpful. There's been a lot of research done on thiamine so simply searching for "thiamine" and whatever you are interested in together can yield good research information.

Congratulations for figuring this out and happy to hear of your good health.

Thanks.

How much thiamine do you take?

I take 1 gram of thiamine hcl, 2Xday. I've recently added 1/2 tab of sublingual thiamine mononitrate (=50mg) first thing in the morning because of some bladder control issues in the morning. It seems to have cured my problem there. The timing for the hcl is 10:30-11:00am and then around 4:00pm. I've got heavy metal poisoning (lead and mercury) which bonds to the sulfur part of thiamine and breaks the molecule up so my requirement for thiamine is higher. Thiamine deficiency and lead poisoning have the same symptoms; thiamine supplementation resolves the symptoms and perhaps helps the body detox from the lead.

Here's an article by Elliot Overton from his website:

Mega-Dose Thiamine: Beyond Addressing “Deficiency”

Throughout the past few years, I have been prescribing thiamine more and more often for individuals with a range of different health conditions. I have witnessed major symptomatic improvement in some people who displayed none of the key risk factors for thiamine deficiency, and many times had...

www.eonutrition.co.uk

Have you by any chance read this book on thiamine? (if so, what are your thoughts on it, if you don't mind me asking):

Yes, I've read that book. I found it to be very helpful. Doing a search for "Dr. Derrick Lonsdale thiamine" yields good info:

Derrick Lonsdale, MD

www.hormonesmatter.com

Thiamine Deficiency Disease, Dysautonomia, and High Calorie Malnutrition

Thiamine Deficiency Disease, Dysautonomia, and High Calorie Malnutrition explores thiamine and how its deficiency affects the functions of the brainst...

www.sciencedirect.com

here's an interview of him; I think he's 96 now and still writing articles.

View: https://vimeo.com/408207634

I have incorporated taking B1 too, however if I don't take other b-vitamins with it (i.e. a complex), I start to feel a little stressed and tired and fatigued, do you also take a B-complex along with the high dose B1?

I take thiamine hcl because my glutathione was very low due to my heavy metal poisoning. TTFD thiamine, Dr. Lonsdale's preferred form of B1, uses glutathione to work. I was not able to tolerate that form; it gave me a bad headache. Elliot Overton has a video about dealing with possible issues that arise from taking TTFD and he suggests in that video to take thiamine hcl if you're low in glutathione and the hcl form will improve your glutathione status; mine is now normal for the first time in many years.

I do take other b vitamins along with my high dose thiamine hcl but I don't high dose them. I don't take a b-complex; I take individual b vitamins instead because I like to take niacinamide and riboflavin in small doses 4xday and I don't do well with b5 and I only take about 10mg of b6 and I really don't like to take b-12 all the time.
I've found taking magnesium glycinate to be very helpful.

 

[Peatress]

I also take a Peaty amount (90mgs) of niacinamide 4Xday.

I think your diligence with dosing probably accounts for much of your success with the b vitamins. A lot of people gain weight with niacinamide but you’ve written about losing weight. Small amounts spread out throughout the day is probably the reason why.

 

[mostlylurking]

I think your diligence with dosing probably accounts for much of your success with the b vitamins. A lot of people gain weight with niacinamide but you’ve written about losing weight. Small amounts spread out throughout the day is probably the reason why.

I think that's true. I didn't lose the 25+ pounds I had packed on in one month after taking Bactrim antibiotic (it blocked my thiamine function) until over 18 months later when I changed my niacinamide dosing from 200mg 2Xday to 90mg 4Xday. Then, over a period of about 4 months, I lost 30+ pounds. During that time, I was more active (because I felt better), but I did not change my food intake from the previous 18 months.

 

[Peatress]

I think that's true. I didn't lose the 25+ pounds I had packed on in one month after taking Bactrim antibiotic (it blocked my thiamine function) until over 18 months later when I changed my niacinamide dosing from 200mg 2Xday to 90mg 4Xday. Then, over a period of about 4 months, I lost 30+ pounds. During that time, I was more active (because I felt better), but I did not change my food intake from the previous 18 months.

This is remarkable. I think you said you were gardening during that time – perhaps grounding helped?

 

[mostlylurking]

This is remarkable. I think you said you were gardening during that time – perhaps grounding helped?

I think moving tonnage of compost onto my garden beds had the most effect. My husband brings me front end loaders of compost with his tractor and I do the distribution. Seems fair.... I use a little red wagon, a couple of bushel tubs, a hoe, and a child's rake. It keeps me off the computer and out in the sunshine. Cheap thrills.

 

[Peatress]

I think moving tonnage of compost onto my garden beds had the most effect. My husband brings me front end loaders of compost with his tractor and I do the distribution. Seems fair.... I use a little red wagon, a couple of bushel tubs, a hoe, and a child's rake. It keeps me off the computer and out in the sunshine. Cheap thrills.

Sounds great. I need to get off my computer!

 

[mostlylurking]

Sounds great. I need to get off my computer!

It's a terrible addiction. The computer is in my sewing room; I haven't sewn anything in over a year. But the garden is doing great!