My Body Doesn't Metabolise Calcium Properly And Nothing Seems To Help

[BearWithMe]

Sorry to hear that. Hope you find the answers you're looking for.

Have you mentioned something about testosterone and then edited the post? This was actually really interesting and I would like to expand on that

 

[Jessie]

Do you know what your phosphate levels are? I think it's possible to create phosphate lockout by eating high amounts of calcium, but it's hard. You would have to basically eat nothing but high calcium proteins, while eliminating most if not all the meat in your diet. Ray recommended a 2:1 ratio of P/Ca, I do think this is probably optimal. If you're getting 1,500-2,500mgs of calcium you should be shooting for around 3,000-5,000mgs of phosphorous.

I feel like when Peat is talking about the dangers of phosphate he's probably talking about the SAD dieters that are relying on heavy grain, seed, meat based diets. And to make things worse the mainstream is becoming increasingly more dairy phobic.

To test this, take a 10,000iu dose of vitamin D and eat a steak, or beef of some sort. That way you get a concentrated dose of phosphorus and the vitamin D will promote it's rapid utilization and then see how you feel. It shouldn't take long to swing things back into the favor of phosphate. Just a few days of low dairy and increased meat consumption will do the trick.

 

[somuch4food]

Do you know what your phosphate levels are? I think it's possible to create phosphate lockout by eating high amounts of calcium, but it's hard. You would have to basically eat nothing but high calcium proteins, while eliminating most if not all the meat in your diet. Ray recommended a 2:1 ratio of P/Ca, I do think this is probably optimal. If you're getting 1,500-2,500mgs of calcium you should be shooting for around 3,000-5,000mgs of phosphorous.

That's the first time I see a P:Ca ratio of 2:1. The recommendation I always see is ideally more calcium than phosphorus. Where does Peat recommend such high phosphorus?

 

[Jessie]

That's the first time I see a P:Ca ratio of 2:1. The recommendation I always see is ideally more calcium than phosphorus. Where does Peat recommend such high phosphorus?

He has said the "ideal" ratio has never been clearly defined, but anywhere from a 1:1 to 2:1 ratio is safe. Most processed food eaters have around a 5:1 to 6:1 ratio, which will cause soft tissue calcification. Peat said he normally gets around 2,500mgs of Ca daily, so at a 2:1 ratio that would put the P threshold at around 5,000mgs.

It's also important to keep in mind fruit based diets and sugar based diets allow your kidneys to excrete excess phosphorus more efficiently. It's probably possible to cause hypercalcaemia by pushing the pendulum too far either way. It's just excess dietary Ca is not that common in today's western societies.

This is a very good interview, I'd recommend watching the whole thing, but the crucial part you're looking for is at 9:50 to 11:30. "About 1-2 quarts of milk and a 1/2 lb of meat is tolerable."

Later he dives into the stuff about sugar and fruits assisting the kidneys in shedding extra P, so if you're eating lots of sugar with your dairy you might want to consider eating a little extra P, or maybe cutting back on dairy just a little.

 

[Diokine]

Have you been exposed to aluminum, aluminum dust, or other heavy metals/vapors? It can cause damage to the kidneys and might explain some of the findings. This issue gets quite complex quickly. Central regulation of blood chemistry via vasopressin/oxytocin could be contributing, from maternal or childhood stress. Chronic activation of the sympathetic nervous system can alter kidney function drastically. It is quite possible to "think" your way into a state like this through perception of stress, cholinergic over-activation, and insulin resistance. In these states we forget how to breathe correctly and derange long range nervous coherence.

Imagine a string under tension, like on a guitar. There is a particular frequency at which the whole guitar resonates maximally, but of course it joins in chorus at many other pitches. This is not unlike how coherence works with your body and nervous system. We are continually trying to find the point of maximum resonance. Continued stress and fatigue is like fretting the string higher and higher, until you are at the point where the guitar can barely perceive the tone offered by the vibrating string. A guitar that doesn't sing forgets it is alive.

Do you spend much time in nature? Trees and ferns would be happy to offer some of their energy to nourish.

 

[gaze]

Have you checked PTH? in some extreme cases there could be a benign tumor on your gland causing hyperparathyroidism which doesn't come down from vitamin D. I would however talk to your doctor about this and maybe an ultrasound (assuming you have high PTH). Also a removal of the gland and or tumor is generally very safe from what I've read and symptoms clear up quite quickly if that is indeed the issue.

 

[YourUniverse]

Have you been exposed to aluminum, aluminum dust, or other heavy metals/vapors? It can cause damage to the kidneys and might explain some of the findings. This issue gets quite complex quickly. Central regulation of blood chemistry via vasopressin/oxytocin could be contributing, from maternal or childhood stress. Chronic activation of the sympathetic nervous system can alter kidney function drastically. It is quite possible to "think" your way into a state like this through perception of stress, cholinergic over-activation, and insulin resistance. In these states we forget how to breathe correctly and derange long range nervous coherence.

Imagine a string under tension, like on a guitar. There is a particular frequency at which the whole guitar resonates maximally, but of course it joins in chorus at many other pitches. This is not unlike how coherence works with your body and nervous system. We are continually trying to find the point of maximum resonance. Continued stress and fatigue is like fretting the string higher and higher, until you are at the point where the guitar can barely perceive the tone offered by the vibrating string. A guitar that doesn't sing forgets it is alive.

Do you spend much time in nature? Trees and ferns would be happy to offer some of their energy to nourish.

I love this post

 

[Energizer]

Have you mentioned something about testosterone and then edited the post? This was actually really interesting and I would like to expand on that

I was just going to mention thyroid surrogates like coffee and aspirin being maybe helpful for lowering estrogen.

 

[postman]

Too much iron can cause problems with vitamin D and calcium utilization

 

[BearWithMe]

So many wonderful replies in this thread, thank you all!!

You would have to basically eat nothing but high calcium proteins, while eliminating most if not all the meat in your diet.

This is actually exactly what happened. First I starved (not voluntarily) for a few years and depleted myself of everything, then I went on diet with moderate amounts of milk but no meat (not voluntarily, my stomach didn't tolerated meat at the time). This was all before I found out about Ray and "RP diet".

Do you know what your phosphate levels are?

Phosphate levels in serum: 0,78 mmol/l (reference range of my lab 0,90-1,45 mmol/l). It is lower and lower every time I check.
Phosphate levels in urine: 9 mmol/l (reference range of my lab 15-45 mmol/l)

If you're getting 1,500-2,500mgs of calcium you should be shooting for around 3,000-5,000mgs of phosphorous.

I think the most phosphorus I have ever got in a day was 2000mg. Yet, I was regularly eating 2500mg+ of calcium a day.

To test this, take a 10,000iu dose of vitamin D and eat a steak, or beef of some sort. That way you get a concentrated dose of phosphorus and the vitamin D will promote it's rapid utilization and then see how you feel. It shouldn't take long to swing things back into the favor of phosphate. Just a few days of low dairy and increased meat consumption will do the trick.

Oh, this is brilliant idea! I need to try this. Just found out that manganese is also a phosphorus synergist, that would explain why it is one of the few supplements that makes me feel better.

He has said the "ideal" ratio has never been clearly defined, but anywhere from a 1:1 to 2:1 ratio is safe. Most processed food eaters have around a 5:1 to 6:1 ratio, which will cause soft tissue calcification. Peat said he normally gets around 2,500mgs of Ca daily, so at a 2:1 ratio that would put the P threshold at around 5,000mgs.

It's also important to keep in mind fruit based diets and sugar based diets allow your kidneys to excrete excess phosphorus more efficiently. It's probably possible to cause hypercalcaemia by pushing the pendulum too far either way. It's just excess dietary Ca is not that common in today's western societies.

This is a very good interview, I'd recommend watching the whole thing, but the crucial part you're looking for is at 9:50 to 11:30. "About 1-2 quarts of milk and a 1/2 lb of meat is tolerable."

Later he dives into the stuff about sugar and fruits assisting the kidneys in shedding extra P, so if you're eating lots of sugar with your dairy you might want to consider eating a little extra P, or maybe cutting back on dairy just a little.

Awesome interview, it answered a lot of my questions. Thank you for the link and for all your posts, this is MUCH appreciated!

Have you been exposed to aluminum, aluminum dust, or other heavy metals/vapors? It can cause damage to the kidneys and might explain some of the findings. This issue gets quite complex quickly. Central regulation of blood chemistry via vasopressin/oxytocin could be contributing, from maternal or childhood stress. Chronic activation of the sympathetic nervous system can alter kidney function drastically. It is quite possible to "think" your way into a state like this through perception of stress, cholinergic over-activation, and insulin resistance. In these states we forget how to breathe correctly and derange long range nervous coherence.

Imagine a string under tension, like on a guitar. There is a particular frequency at which the whole guitar resonates maximally, but of course it joins in chorus at many other pitches. This is not unlike how coherence works with your body and nervous system. We are continually trying to find the point of maximum resonance. Continued stress and fatigue is like fretting the string higher and higher, until you are at the point where the guitar can barely perceive the tone offered by the vibrating string. A guitar that doesn't sing forgets it is alive.

Do you spend much time in nature? Trees and ferns would be happy to offer some of their energy to nourish.

Too much phosphorus can damage the kidneys. Is it possible that chronically low phosphorus might damage the kidneys too? Is it possible that kidneys can't properly regulate and retain phosphorus, when they are weakened by all the psychological stress and constant worrying? And all this is creating a vicious cycle? That gets even more pronounced by low phosphorus and high calcium intake?

A walk in nature is the only thing that helps when my digestion is really messed up

Have you checked PTH? in some extreme cases there could be a benign tumor on your gland causing hyperparathyroidism which doesn't come down from vitamin D. I would however talk to your doctor about this and maybe an ultrasound (assuming you have high PTH). Also a removal of the gland and or tumor is generally very safe from what I've read and symptoms clear up quite quickly if that is indeed the issue.

I did not, but I absolutely need to check PTH next time I will be doing a blood test. Will keep this in mind!

 

[Jessie]

@JanP another thing to maybe check is your PH. Calcium is a very alkalinizing mineral, and pushing your PH too high will also cause mineral lockout, particularly phosphate which needs a more acidic environment to be absorbed. Taking 1-2 tbsp of apple cider vinegar in 6-8oz of warm water and honey (for taste) is a good way to rebalance things.

 

[BearWithMe]

@JanP another thing to maybe check is your PH. Calcium is a very alkalinizing mineral, and pushing your PH too high will also cause mineral lockout, particularly phosphate which needs a more acidic environment to be absorbed. Taking 1-2 tbsp of apple cider vinegar in 6-8oz of warm water and honey (for taste) is a good way to rebalance things.

PH of blood / blood acid-base balance?

 

[Jessie]

Yeah, intestines too, since that's the first stop. Well, technically the stomach is the first stop, and that can also be overly alkaline when acid is low. But phosphate needs a slightly acidic environment to be absorbed efficiently. Most people tend to feel their best with a PH around 6.8, or slightly under 7. However too much alkaline (calcium, bicarbonate, etc.) can increase that PH which will start interfering with certain nutrients.

 

[BearWithMe]

Yeah, intestines too, since that's the first stop. Well, technically the stomach is the first stop, and that can also be overly alkaline when acid is low. But phosphate needs a slightly acidic environment to be absorbed efficiently. Most people tend to feel their best with a PH around 6.8, or slightly under 7. However too much alkaline (calcium, bicarbonate, etc.) can increase that PH which will start interfering with certain nutrients.

How to check the PH of stomach and intestines?

 

[Jessie]

How to check the PH of stomach and intestines?

Most people just pee on PH strips to get a reading, I'm not currently aware of anyway to test stomach PH directly. You could try the betaine hcl protocol. The protocol involves taking 1 capsule (or tablet), and then gradually increasing the dose every time until you feel a warm sensation in your stomach, then you're suppose to back off to whatever the previous dosage is. If you get a warm sensation in your stomach from just taking 1 or 2 capsules, you likely don't have low acid and your stomach's PH is probably good.

 

[BearWithMe]

Most people just pee on PH strips to get a reading, I'm not currently aware of anyway to test stomach PH directly. You could try the betaine hcl protocol. The protocol involves taking 1 capsule (or tablet), and then gradually increasing the dose every time until you feel a warm sensation in your stomach, then you're suppose to back off to whatever the previous dosage is. If you get a warm sensation in your stomach from just taking 1 or 2 capsules, you likely don't have low acid and your stomach's PH is probably good.

Awesome, thank you!

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Alleged optimal Ca : P Ratio for 'dogs' is 1.2 : 1

 

[tara]

Yes. I was also eating very little (1000kcal a day or so) for quite a long time before finding out about Ray. Phosphorus deficiency is common in starved people, after they reintroduce normal food intake again.

Yes, AIUI low phosphorus can be a component of the dysregulation involved in refeeding syndrome.
How much are you eating now (calories)?
Are you eating to appetite, or restricting foods that you want to eat? What does your appetite tell you it wants?

 

[BearWithMe]

Yes, AIUI low phosphorus can be a component of the dysregulation involved in refeeding syndrome.
How much are you eating now (calories)?
Are you eating to appetite, or restricting foods that you want to eat? What does your appetite tell you it wants?

Between 2000 and 2500 kcal a day, depending on my digestion and how much nausea I feel that day.
I have quite a huge appetite and I love all food, but I feel very full and nauseous after very little food, so I'm "restricted" by that. Otherwise, I would happily eat twice as much.
I often crave sugars (friuts, sweetened milk), but I also love cheese and organ meats - I actually prefer the taste of organ meats to muscle meats. These foods makes up 90% of my diet.

 

[BobbinTook]

Perhaps a long shot and not sure what your diet and supplement history is like prior to the 5year point so this may not be applicable..

If you haven't already and feel that it's a possibility, it might be worth making sure that you can rule out hypervitaminosis A. I have seen that at least some cases will present with high blood calcium(presumably coming from one's bones), also the anxiety/racing thoughts could be a symptom and you mention the poor response to supplemental A as well as having followed a diet that is at least fairly high in vitamin A for the past 5 years.

Hope you manage to get to the bottom of whatever the problem is soon.