No fap input and perils

[Herbie]

@shucknchuck

This thread has been hijacked by religion, I didn't ask for help, I wrote it for others.

The issue I have with people talking about addiction is most people haven't thought about what it really means and maybe we can agree that it's when someonthing is doing something which is harming themselves in which they cannot stop. Masterbating and sex can be harmful but it also not be harmful depending.

In the context of this thread, it's not about addiction because it's sharing challenges of practicing abstinence. I find semen retention is a highly addictive torture which I can revil in. I did it for 6 months, was watching yoga on YouTube and the yoga girl did something in a way which you could see her vagina on purpose and it destroyed the six months. I wasn't looking at porn, wasn't looking for it. I've found sexually provocative women will ruin it, I think it's easy if your a monk in a cave, isolated by temptation.

The thing with porn is what kind of porn are people looking at? Is it photos of admiring women's physical beauty or hardcore anal gangbangs etc you know? Is the person highly sexually experienced in the real world, It's not that cut and dry.

Everything is a cope as far I can tell, religion is a cope, I've read philosophy and religious texts and when I'm at my weakest and most lost, I think its good when I am thinking for myself and moving forward, that's what the people who wrote the books were doing. I leant already putting people on pedistals is a major fail.

 

[Herbie]

@Waynish Ive read everything you have ever written on this forum. I found it interesting about the tcm and dampness.

I have read your opinions about homosexuality and porn. I'm suspicious of the popularity in anal porn and ellegedly "straight" men watching other men carry out anal on women. The gen z men I work with behave like gay men did in the 90s hut totally think they are straight it's very odd.

But some men only look at images worshipping female beauty which can't be lumped into the same category of what porn is on offer. Female beauty is like going hiking to see a fantastic vista or waterfall it's natural beauty and will bring about a sense of awe.

Semen retention is easy if you don't live in the west and subjected to the way women dress going grocery shopping or serving them at the workplace, filling the car with petrol.

 

[shucknchuck]

@Herbie
Maybe I’ll just emphasize the universal need for intimate community who can cry with you and also play pingpong with you :)

 

[shucknchuck]

I agree. In a way stressing out over minor things is almost like a sign of bad faith, not trusting in God and His plan.

Philippians 4:6 - Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

And I don't agree about the part that video games are a vice, if not overdone, unless I misunderstood.

Ah yeah, I meant video games in moderation are good — a play outlet. A very wise and successful elder actually encouraged me that moderate play is good. I personally play a not-so-dopamine/brain hacking game, like AoE2 :)

My elder shared a testimony of a famous preacher in Dallas, Robert Morris. He was a new pastor, successful, building a mega church, writing a book, and preaching at conferences every weekend around the world. He began getting overwhelmed by old temptations. He was surrounded by accountability partners and elders trying to fix him, totally befuddled, so they finally pulled in an outsider, Jimmy Evans. He asked, “when’s the last time you played golf?”
A Simple solution to a complicated problem :)

 

[Waynish]

@Waynish Ive read everything you have ever written on this forum. I found it interesting about the tcm and dampness.

I have read your opinions about homosexuality and porn. I'm suspicious of the popularity in anal porn and ellegedly "straight" men watching other men carry out anal on women. The gen z men I work with behave like gay men did in the 90s hut totally think they are straight it's very odd.

But some men only look at images worshipping female beauty which can't be lumped into the same category of what porn is on offer. Female beauty is like going hiking to see a fantastic vista or waterfall it's natural beauty and will bring about a sense of awe.

Semen retention is easy if you don't live in the west and subjected to the way women dress going grocery shopping or serving them at the workplace, filling the car with petrol.

Flattery! Yes it is not *as* bad. Sodomy is sodomy; doesn't matter how the sodomizer identifies. And let's not forget these males are watching another man with the woman they desire; so at the very least it is a form of cuckoldry. And that such acts are are literally illegal, if they were not being recorded. Dark times.
Clearly porn has no connection to serving a natural need, and now perhaps a majority of attractive & fertile urban women produce (often at their own expense) some amount of erotic imagery (by more normal, say, 90s standards) online for anyone to see. Porn is a weapon despite how many of its implementers are aware of its destructive potential.

 

[shucknchuck]

"I just don't want to touch myself" - well that is a very low bar, just stop being a pervert.

Some people are deeply emotionally damaged and hopeless, raised in a house that provided no emotional or mental safety; a scenario convincing them the only bit of respite is the most extreme forms of pleasure (drugs/drunkenness/masturbation/porn). These people have often suffered chronically elevated estrogen/cortisol/adrenaline, since they were children. These people go day by day, afraid to look themselves in the eyes in the mirror and face the pain and self-hatred that feeds the back-burner thoughts of suicide, or alternatively, not let it take them out and go wack off to naked pictures on the internet for the only respite they found in this world.
——
Some were raised in a family with an element of order and presence of care w/ affection, just enough at least, to enable them to think and see clearly enough about self-destructive habits — thus easier to self-correct.

I hope you can have some compassion on “perverts,” because it’s most people with an internet connection, good intentioned or otherwise.

 

[Waynish]

Some people are deeply emotionally damaged and hopeless, raised in a house that provided no emotional or mental safety; a scenario convincing them the only bit of respite is the most extreme forms of pleasure (drugs/drunkenness/masturbation/porn). These people have often suffered chronically elevated estrogen/cortisol/adrenaline, since they were children. These people go day by day, afraid to look themselves in the eyes in the mirror and face the pain and self-hatred that feeds the back-burner thoughts of suicide, or alternatively, not let it take them out and go wack off to naked pictures on the internet for the only respite they found in this world.
——
Some were raised in a family with an element of order and presence of care w/ affection, just enough at least, to enable them to think and see clearly enough about self-destructive habits — thus easier to self-correct.

I hope you can have some compassion on “perverts,” because it’s most people with an internet connection, good intentioned or otherwise.

What you have is compassion for perversion. My compassion for perverts allows me to tell them the truth especially since they were lacking this during their upbringing.

 

[EustaceBagge]

What you have is compassion for perversion. My compassion for perverts allows me to tell them the truth especially since they were lacking this during their upbringing.

No, I think he is right. The Rat Park experiments alongside the proof we have that estrogen/stress causes more relapses/addiction shows us that it is a necessity of modern life that alongside good mental fortitude we need to keep stress low. Nowadays nobody is taught morals except critical race theory (lol), and everybody is a winner... until that person turns 18 and realizes he is a loser.

Traumatized people are in chronic fight or flight, 24/7, from childhood completely unaware. It can manifest in a lot of ways, like addiction, the fix lies at the source which is resolving any emotional disturbances and making sure that there is a low stress diet, low stress environment, and stimulation (healthy fun).

What he has is not compassion for perversion, he has patience and mercy. In the end we as a society are also responsible for the current degeneracy we're facing. But then again I've met perverts that don't want to be helped, or are unapologetic perverts making it their lifestyle/attitude... we are not prophets.

If I met a kid that wanted to improve himself, I would tell him to eat a protein rich diet so he could grow to his potentional height, to mew, to keep stress low, and yet all this easy advice is given to almost nobody. And then some jackass comes along and says that we need to "harden up", or "work harder".

For me, I recently realized that masturbation was just trading one stress for another stress (prolactin etc.). It was not a fix, just like weed sedates you but stressess the body out through different pathways. Yet I could never stop masturbating until I started taking it easy not being restless all the time.

Now I can genuinely not fap for 7-14 days while not having any significant issues with lust. If a kid came to me and told me that he can not stop touching himself and feels bad for it, I would tell him to not be harsh on himself as it is a natural urge, but to also make sure that he keeps stress low. If you try nofap in a truly stressed state it is mental torture.

 

[Herbie]

@shucknchuck

Thankyou, I don't have friends or need for it. If I didn't have to work to make money to survive, I'd be a hermit.

 

[Herbie]

@Waynish yeah I wonder if men really want to watch other men have sex with women or they tolerate it to see the women naked.
Religious or not, even when it was just looking at photos of women in penthouse in the 90s it's probably still damaging to the women in the photos and isn't natural. I think men used to masterbate over statues of women before cameras. It's still perversion but people probably don't care because there is no forseable reason for them to.

 

[shucknchuck]

What you have is compassion for perversion. My compassion for perverts allows me to tell them the truth especially since they were lacking this during their upbringing.

I think Eustace answered it well.

Many people know the truth and wish they weren’t entertaining self-destructive vices. Most people in church today struggle with it; I’ve struggled a lot with it.

I can’t help but think that most of my comment didn’t register with you, because you may have grown up in a decent home (epitomized by my latter example, in the comment above) — maybe you haven’t struggled with thoughts of suicide or self-harm as a teenager and into twenties? That doesn’t happen because people don’t think sin is sin, it happens over condemnation of sin, with no hope of freedom.

 

[shucknchuck]

@shucknchuck

Thankyou, I don't have friends or need for it. If I didn't have to work to make money to survive, I'd be a hermit.

I can’t help but think that you’ve had a hard life, to come to that conclusion.

I hope you have the best life possible.

 

[Waynish]

What he has is not compassion for perversion, he has patience and mercy.

Or tolerance? I don't think people have interalized why tolerance is not a virtue. We can all try to compare the hardships of our past and present to see who has claim to the toughest life and therefore claim to some authority with respect to hardship - but I don't think that is easy to do in person, much less an internet forum.

And since @shucknchuck made the suicide reference, this is doubly true; the more tolerance you have for suicidal behavior, the more you're likely to engage in it, no? If you have had some proper training, then you'd rather experience any hardship than exhibit the cowardess and sin of suicide.

I note that much of the replies to me relate to rationalizing a lack of freewill and a sort of deterministic non-spiritual existance where moral corruption becomes inevitable in the same way thermodynamics envisions a heat death of the universe.

I'm not here to change opinions, so suit yourself - but "do what thou wilt" is not consequence free.

 

[Sinjin]

If an alcoholic quits alcohol or a smoker quits cigarettes and they are still finding the cravings to drink/smoke tortuous after 6 months of abstinence, it is probably indicative that they are not doing a great job of managing those cravings and the underlying thought loops and behaviours.

The nofap/nooporn journey is about breaking the addiction cheap, overstumulative, voyeuristic release, and part of that is learning to better handle sexual energy in the body in the same way that an alcoholic or smoker learns to handle strong energy in the body without drinking or smoking.

 

[Mauritio]

I've found if one wants to be successful, Its important to know what you want. The question is am I looking for a life partner/husband/wife?

If so than there is a danger which occurs. After some time on no fap it's common to get extremely aroused and in these states one may pursue sexual relations with people who you wouldn't normally pursue and end up doing and experiencing undesirable things, maybe even winding up in a disfunctional/codependent relationship, derailing life plans and goals, regret it, sleeping with someone's wife, disrespecting boundarys, knowingly take advantage of vulnerable women, lie, feel disgusted and cause harm to your self and others and delay actually finding or pursuing the life partner/husband wife.

It's like being drunk for days/weeks and having less inhibition and going with people who in your instincts know to not pursue.

I'm not religious but learning through experience and at this moment feel that random sexual encounters with poorly matched partners who I'm not fully attracted to and visa versa is destructive behaviour. But if you just want a huge motivation to get yourself out there than its probably the most effective thing around.

I've found no fap to be a paradox where not practicing no fap is actually an insurance which stops me doing in my opinion stupid things and allows me to focus on the mundane nesssary life things like learning a skill/art and developing as a person and keep a logical and clear mind.

Totally agree.
On top of that sometimes you can come across as too needy / a pushover on nofap.
I think just once per week is good middle ground.

 

[Mauritio]

Whenever I’ve read any in depth piece on semen retention, opposed to simply “no fap,” there is always the aspect of taking that stored sexual energy and transmuting/repurposing/transferring (whichever word best suits the true intent, I’m not positive.)

That transferring of the energy has always been the key purpose from what I’ve read, and would theoretically address the issue in the opening post completely.

There is such a thing as testicle breathing I have tried it before and surprisingly ...it worked!

 

[shucknchuck]

I have noticed - what I can't help but call - a few subtle projections of what I believe.

Hopefully, the conundrum you've given me, if expressed adequately in the following sentence, can remove the veil of misunderstanding between us:
I'm experiencing a bizarro-world-like dejavu where everything I believe is being parroted back at me as though it's correcting me - except humorlessly - the most hurtful part of all. If you're a Christian, maybe you could brush up on your charismata.

Or tolerance? I don't think people have interalized why tolerance is not a virtue.

This is confusing tolerance for compassion (a few metonyms of compassion: mercy, grace, forgiveness, forbearance, longsuffering, and hope), is an easy mistake, and sometimes a useful mental guard in a world where "tolerance is a virtue" (I don't agree with the statement. Cry havoc and release the slurs of bigotry!1!!).

However, hyperbole excepting, it must be said that Forbearance is a virtue of the Lord, and it's definition includes "tolerance." So it's probably wise to say that tolerance is a conditional virtue. This could be explored by reading the Psalms and Proverbs, and entirety of the New Testament (I'd also suggest reading Songs of Solomon as an allegory of Christ's love for the World).

"Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?"
Romans 2:4

The above translation (NKJV) is fully adequate, but due to the rarefied use of some of those words, the following translation (TPT) expounds with their simpler definitions, to make it more impactful for modern laity:
"Do the riches of his extraordinary kindness make you take him for granted and despise him? Haven’t you experienced how kind and understanding he has been to you? Don’t mistake his tolerance for acceptance. Do you realize that all the wealth of his extravagant kindness is meant to melt your heart and lead you into repentance?"

We can all try to compare the hardships of our past and present to see who has claim to the toughest life and therefore claim to some authority with respect to hardship - but I don't think that is easy to do in person, much less an internet forum.

My first effort was not at all to claim that if you didn't live an experience, you can't understand it; my last comment on the matter, did, however, because I didn't perceive an acknowledgement of how the hardships as pointed out, are a problem for very many people, that very practically affects their lives.
I've argued against that silly unfounded point many times with regard to "identity politics." However, if a pure-souled neonazi came up to me and said that no compassion should be felt for the felt-abuses of the black community in America, I would likewise kindly correct him, pointing to their ghettoization and thug culture most lasciviously romanticized in the media.

It doesn't have to be true that people who haven't lived an experience also can't speak on, or understand that experience, but, some people choose not to take the thought-exploration of walking a mile in someone else's shoes. Only then, ought it be spelled out explicitly - anything otherwise is impolite and illogical.

I note that much of the replies to me relate to rationalizing a lack of freewill and a sort of deterministic non-spiritual existance where moral corruption becomes inevitable in the same way thermodynamics envisions a heat death of the universe.

I have communicated very poorly, or you've not extended much good faith. Maybe the truth is in the middle?

I should state that elsewhere, I've stood strongly (for many, to a discomforting degree) when helping a broken person see the power of choice they have in a given matter that is propelling much hurt or destruction in their lives.
The very nature of satanic lies from the enemy, is to make you complacent, and blaming circumstance for your problems. Demonic assignments and attacks are all lies and eye singeing smog. In spite of knowing this, the Lord spoke the aforementioned passage, and spoke a pointed sentence in the following passage:

"But when the religious scholars and the Pharisees found out that Jesus was keeping company and dining with sinners and tax collectors, they were indignant. So they approached Jesus’ disciples and said to them, 'Why is it that someone like Jesus defiles himself by eating with sinners and tax collectors?'
But when Jesus overheard their complaint, he said to them, 'Who goes to the doctor for a cure? Those who are well or those who are sick? I have not come to call the "righteous," but those who are sinners and bring them to repentance.'” - Mark 2:16-17

I'm not here to change opinions, so suit yourself...

I think, if we're all being honest, we get into these conversations to be right, more than we are to change opinions. The first step of successfully changing opinions, is to literally attempt to understand someone else, which paradoxically requires a measure of compassion. Maybe we should exercise more compassion when we disagree on the internet? I know that I'm speaking to myself here.

..."do what thou wilt" is not consequence free.

I believe precisely the opposite of this. Obedience is a virtue. This is an accursed "virtue" of satanism; I hate satanism. It's highly likely you actually believe in "do what thou wilt," to a degree. If you're an American, you may believe to some degree, the same ideological origin of 20th century satanism: the colonial rebellion to form a Constitutional Republic. Freemasonry, with it's Anglo/gnostic/Kabbalist/neo-Grecian ideals of republicanism, legalism, rebellionism, witchcraft, anti-family, anti-father, anti-femininity, anti-authority, Machiavellianism, individualism, anti-God/antichrist - all of those LIES are preaching the promise of the fruit to Eve, in the Garden.

 

[Herbie]

@shucknchuck I know if it's that, I think it starts when people find the courage to go and do what they want to do alone instead of waiting around for others which then gives them a huge freedom and independence and then individuality, can't fit in, can't be put in a group etc.

 

[shucknchuck]

@shucknchuck I know if it's that, I think it starts when people find the courage to go and do what they want to do alone instead of waiting around for others which then gives them a huge freedom and independence and then individuality, can't fit in, can't be put in a group etc.

I'm interested in what you're saying; could you expound on this point?
Thanks!

 

[Herbie]

I'm interested in what you're saying; could you expound on this point?
Thanks!

"A man can be himself only so long as he is alone; and if he does not love solitude, he will not love freedom; for it is only when he is alone that he is really free" - Arthur Schopenhauer.