Pics: Does this look like hormone-fueled fat distribution / cortisol / insulin, or do I just need to lose a stone?

[thisoldtown1978]

So I've been on here a while, and I've been living a life inspired by Peat's work for many years. I avoid PUFA like plague, don't starve myself of carbs, try my damndest to hit my micros etc. and I generally dip in and out of the forum so as not to drive myself crazy!

To recap to date, I've had tremendous success in fixing many mental health and energy level issues I had prior to this. I generally look much, much healthier than I did, I'm much brighter, more sociable, more confident, more aggressive in the right circumstances, harder working etc.

However, as many of you can probably relate, I haven't always focused solely on my fat gain / loss to assess my health. I've always been relatively active. I walk a lot, I work out 3 times a week, and recently I've turned my attention back to my physique and being really honest with myself...

And as you can probably imagine from looking at these pictures, I'm not entirely happy with what I'm seeing. I've had this fat distribution as long as I can remember. When my weight has fluctuated many years in the past, between skinny and within a stone's throw of chubby, I've always had this fat distribution. On the belly, and especially the lower back, hip area. My arms and legs remain slim.

I suppose I've always expected this to just sort itself out as I focused on improving my overall health, but recently I've felt a bit stumped. I've been eating 200-300 below maintenance calories, working out 3 times a week for about 12 months, and I can't seem to make a dent in this physique pattern. I just seem to be stuck.

Eating high protein, lowish fat, and mid-level carbs, I'm just surprised, seeing the success that others seem to have with a similar protocol.

I know what the typical interpretations of this might look like through a Peat-lens, but I thought it was worth posting these pictures in case it's more useful for people to assess, or perhaps they have experience with similar body types.

Thank you.

 

[reality]

Fat will come off as long as you are eating in a deficit. If you are not losing weight then you are eating too much. I’d consider weight training for muscle and long daily walks to burn more calories

 

[chrstn4o]

I'd throw in a day or two of eating at maintenance or above every week to reduce chances of your body adapting to the deficit. Also would hit the weights a bit harder intensity-wise but without much volume. Also on non-gym days no one says you can't throw in some squat/lunges/pushups/etc to keep giving a signal to your muscles that they need to grow.

 

[cremes]

For a moment there I thought someone broke into my phone and stole my pictures. I have a similar shape.

I am seeing success with HCNF where N is No. Obviously it’s impossible to hit zero but that’s my aim. I usually get ~12 grams of mostly saturated fat per day. I’m trending downward at about 1.2 pounds per week on a diet of about 2400 calories. That’s maybe a 100-200 calorie deficit for my age and size. I’m reluctant to go lower cal in fear of slowing my metabolism.

So, try lower fat but SAME calorie target. Good luck.

 

[youngsinatra]

Yes, a caloric deficit is still necessary to lose fat, even with an optimal / fast metabolism.

I stupidly thought that eating lots of calories was „so prometabolic“ even though it has more to do with eating the correct foods, correct macros, micronutrients, meal timing, reducing stress and sleeping well, getting enough sunlight and movement.

Most westerners actually are overfed and malnourished at the same time. I think the overeating, and the gaining of those „healing pounds“ that some encourage here likely lead to more insulin resistance, fatty liver, lower testosterone and worse metabolic health over time.

Track you daily weight. Track macros. Keep protein and fat consistently stable and only vary the carbohydrate intake. Lower the daily carbohydrate intake by 50g when weight loss is still not occuring after 2 weeks. I‘d keep fat on the lower side personally. (example: 60g fat, 300g carbohydrates, 150g protein - 2340 calories)

 

[Peatful]

This is voice to text because I’m behind the wheel of a car at a stoplight, but I wanted to chime in and say it’s a little bit of both. I see some liver and cortisol issues as well as a hypo metabolism.

 

[Jennifer]

@thisoldtown1978, how is your thyroid function (temps & pulse), liver function and elimination, and stress levels overall? Have you had a hormone panel done recently? If your thyroid isn’t working optimally, since you mentioned you eat high protein, how many grams would you say you average daily and what are your major sources? I just recently watched an interview Ray did with Danny and Georgi last year where he talked about his protein recommendation that was based on the military study. He told me in an email back in 2015 that he recommended any active adult get at least 100 grams of protein a day, but what he didn’t mention to me was that it was in the context of a 4–5,000 calorie diet. He said in the interview when asked about his 80–100+ grams of protein recommendation:

“If you’re an active person in your 20s, you’re very likely to be burning 4–5,000 calories per day of whatever nutrients so 100 g of protein in a 5,000 calorie diet with lots of carbohydrate isn’t a bad ratio at all.”


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZCgpw6_sRA&t=0s

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

This is voice to text because I’m behind the wheel of a car at a stoplight, but I wanted to chime in and say it’s a little bit of both. I see some liver and cortisol issues as well as a hypo metabolism.

OP's post could have literally been written by me; it's uncanny how identical my life experience has been to what he wrote. How would you go about fixing those issues if you were him?

 

[dukesbobby777]

I think the answers have already been written above (to save me writing an essay).

1. Join a gym and start lifting weights. Join that cult. Start taking it seriously. You want to tip the scales more into an anabolic direction. I used to hate going but I try to go as much as I can now. I have to stop myself from going. It's a nice break out of the house.

2. Get walking. Two hours per day on a treadmill makes you feel good, and burns almost 500 calories. That builds up.

3. Eat HCLF. Become militant with this. If the cool kids here tease you for becoming orthorexic, well, who cares. You have to do what works for you.


If you are taking supplements and they are causing blood sugar swings or an extra demand for calories, drop them. Or, at least, reduce their dosage so they don't cause these problems. Supplements that make you hungry (due to increased metabolic demands), will make you more hungry and cause you to overreat on calories.

Getting back into shape is a challenge, but is a great thing to focus on with all of these parameters.

OK, I'm checking out.

Coach Bobby

 

[Peatful]

OP's post could have literally been written by me; it's uncanny how identical my life experience has been to what he wrote. How would you go about fixing those issues if you were him?

To the OP

First
You don’t look horrible or anything
Don’t be too hard on yourself


In general to you both
What is good for one may not be what is ultimately good for someone else

I find the past dietary history (and exercise hx) a tremendous factor in present metabolic health
That and current temperatures as an assessment tool
And digestion as a guide

The OP feels good
This is great

We need to hear more about his waking temps, after meal temps, daily kcal

Labs are helpful but not paramount to address where to go…
Plus past dietary history

Super common for guys to do a keto carnivore IF OMAD blah blah blah with a disciplined gym routine
And it takes a bit to get them back on track

Everyone is different
Based on hx

 

[thisoldtown1978]

Fat will come off as long as you are eating in a deficit. If you are not losing weight then you are eating too much. I’d consider weight training for muscle and long daily walks to burn more calories

Thanks. I do weight train 3 times a week and try to walk in between, but I suppose I can be relatively sedentary when working on the in between days.

I'd throw in a day or two of eating at maintenance or above every week to reduce chances of your body adapting to the deficit. Also would hit the weights a bit harder intensity-wise but without much volume. Also on non-gym days no one says you can't throw in some squat/lunges/pushups/etc to keep giving a signal to your muscles that they need to grow.

Thank you. So you'd say it's okay to exercise every day, perhaps hitting the heavy weights 3 times a week and then light pushups and lunged on the days in between? Just sending constant signals to the body to be anabolic?

For a moment there I thought someone broke into my phone and stole my pictures. I have a similar shape.

I am seeing success with HCNF where N is No. Obviously it’s impossible to hit zero but that’s my aim. I usually get ~12 grams of mostly saturated fat per day. I’m trending downward at about 1.2 pounds per week on a diet of about 2400 calories. That’s maybe a 100-200 calorie deficit for my age and size. I’m reluctant to go lower cal in fear of slowing my metabolism.

So, try lower fat but SAME calorie target. Good luck.

Thank you - it does seem to be a common body type in men around my age! However, I do definitely feel like I keep it moreso on my hips than others. I can have a good guess, but what does your diet look like on HCNF? Have you noticed any drops in testosterone?

Yes, a caloric deficit is still necessary to lose fat, even with an optimal / fast metabolism.

I stupidly thought that eating lots of calories was „so prometabolic“ even though it has more to do with eating the correct foods, correct macros, micronutrients, meal timing, reducing stress and sleeping well, getting enough sunlight and movement.

Most westerners actually are overfed and malnourished at the same time. I think the overeating, and the gaining of those „healing pounds“ that some encourage here likely lead to more insulin resistance, fatty liver, lower testosterone and worse metabolic health over time.

Track you daily weight. Track macros. Keep protein and fat consistently stable and only vary the carbohydrate intake. Lower the daily carbohydrate intake by 50g when weight loss is still not occuring after 2 weeks. I‘d keep fat on the lower side personally. (example: 60g fat, 300g carbohydrates, 150g protein - 2340 calories)

Thank you. I too packed on "healing pounds" when I first started this way coming up to 10 years ago. I got much bigger than I am now, but luckily managed to get back down to a balanced weight when I stopped eating so much starch and fat. Interesting that you'd call 60g low fat? I assume that's worked for you?

This is voice to text because I’m behind the wheel of a car at a stoplight, but I wanted to chime in and say it’s a little bit of both. I see some liver and cortisol issues as well as a hypo metabolism.

Interesting, thank you. What exactly are you seeing that screams cortisol and liver issues? I have posted this before, but I had labs about 8 years ago which showed crazy high cortisol, like double the upper reference limit. I had labs again a year or two ago and they'd come down to within the reference range, but still high within that. So for whatever reason, I'm definitely prone to high cortisol. I know the typical Peat-y ways to address that, but anything you can personally vouch for?

@thisoldtown1978, how is your thyroid function (temps & pulse), liver function and elimination, and stress levels overall? Have you had a hormone panel done recently? If your thyroid isn’t working optimally, since you mentioned you eat high protein, how many grams would you say you average daily and what are your major sources? I just recently watched an interview Ray did with Danny and Georgi last year where he talked about his protein recommendation that was based on the military study. He told me in an email back in 2015 that he recommended any active adult get at least 100 grams of protein a day, but what he didn’t mention to me was that it was in the context of a 4–5,000 calorie diet. He said in the interview when asked about his 80–100+ grams of protein recommendation:

“If you’re an active person in your 20s, you’re very likely to be burning 4–5,000 calories per day of whatever nutrients so 100 g of protein in a 5,000 calorie diet with lots of carbohydrate isn’t a bad ratio at all.”


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZCgpw6_sRA&t=0s

Very interesting, thank you. I have posted relatively recent labs, and my temps are now consistently 37degrees, but I'll have to dig them out to give you accurate numbers. So your understanding is that Peat is saying that 100g of protein on a 2300 calorie diet might be too high and pushing up cortisol?

I think the answers have already been written above (to save me writing an essay).

1. Join a gym and start lifting weights. Join that cult. Start taking it seriously. You want to tip the scales more into an anabolic direction. I used to hate going but I try to go as much as I can now. I have to stop myself from going. It's a nice break out of the house.

2. Get walking. Two hours per day on a treadmill makes you feel good, and burns almost 500 calories. That builds up.

3. Eat HCLF. Become militant with this. If the cool kids here tease you for becoming orthorexic, well, who cares. You have to do what works for you.


If you are taking supplements and they are causing blood sugar swings or an extra demand for calories, drop them. Or, at least, reduce their dosage so they don't cause these problems. Supplements that make you hungry (due to increased metabolic demands), will make you more hungry and cause you to overreat on calories.

Getting back into shape is a challenge, but is a great thing to focus on with all of these parameters.

OK, I'm checking out.

Coach Bobby

Thank you, solid advice. Would you consider caffeine to be a blood sugar disregulator? Funnily enough, thinking back to my late teens, going to university etc. it's probably when I started drinking more caffeine that health problems really started being visibly noticeable. Not pointing the finger at caffeine, as it could be a coincidence, but worth thinking about.

To the OP

First
You don’t look horrible or anything
Don’t be too hard on yourself


In general to you both
What is good for one may not be what is ultimately good for someone else

I find the past dietary history (and exercise hx) a tremendous factor in present metabolic health
That and current temperatures as an assessment tool
And digestion as a guide

The OP feels good
This is great

We need to hear more about his waking temps, after meal temps, daily kcal

Labs are helpful but not paramount to address where to go…
Plus past dietary history

Super common for guys to do a keto carnivore IF OMAD blah blah blah with a disciplined gym routine
And it takes a bit to get them back on track

Everyone is different
Based on hx

Thank you, that's very kind and encouraging.

 

[Jennifer]

Very interesting, thank you. I have posted relatively recent labs, and my temps are now consistently 37degrees, but I'll have to dig them out to give you accurate numbers. So your understanding is that Peat is saying that 100g of protein on a 2300 calorie diet might be too high and pushing up cortisol?

You’re welcome. :) I would say it could be if your temps were low, but they’re not, unless they’re being kept up by stress hormones, which you would be able to tell by your pulse, if it and your temp drop after eating, if you ever experience cold extremities, including your nose and ears, if your sleep is disturbed, including a need to urinate etc. I’m sure you know the drill. lol Your arms, and what I can see of your legs, don’t look skinny to me, and if you struggled with higher cortisol in the past, it seems to me you lowered it because you don’t have a cortisol belly—I can see solid muscle there—but given the pattern of fat accumulation you described—gaining in your hips—and the fact that you strength train, I asked about your liver and elimination because I’m wondering if your estrogen and/or prolactin (tissue bound estrogen) levels are elevated. I have in my notes that Ray said a normal prolactin range is between 4 and 7 for men. Your calories seem on the low side for a male, indicating lowered thyroid function but of course, I don’t know your age and height. I’m 42 and 5’1” and I average roughly 2,500 calories, and over 3,000 when my diet is heavily dominant in carbs (simple sugars).

 

[Herbie]

@thisoldtown1978 y

Yes it's hormonal.

If you burn the fat off you will still have the hormonal imbalances. It's a short term and unhealthy way appear healthier.

Do what's harder and better and get healthier.

 

[cremes]

HCNF looks really similar to HCLF. I use fresh OJ and fat free milk as my base. 32oz of each daily gives me the 1kcal foundation along with good vitamins and minerals. On top of that I usually eat either 450g cooked rice in broth plus 250g sweet potato or baked white potato to add another ~500 calories. To round it out I will eat pickled beets, kiwi, banana, apple, watermelon, or other seasonal fruit.

The OJ provides a little fat as do the rice and potato. Since they are plant based then it’s mostly PUFA unfortunately. By the end of the day I have usually consumed about 12 grams of it on a diet targeting 2500 calories. I don’t see any way to lower the PUFA and still eat whole foods. If I went to a completely liquid diet I could probably manage that but that seems too extreme.

Once or twice a week I have a meal with ~80 grams fat, mostly saturated, to give the old gallbladder a good squeeze. I reduce my carb intake that day to attempt to remain isocaloric but that’s harder to gauge.

 

[Metabolism_Red]

Your physique looks like the average peater who does not lift and eats too much Haggen dasz. Do you even lift bro? (just kidding)
DNP, aspirin, b3, caffeine, t3. GOMAD (gallon of skim milk a day). also look into raw egg protein shakes, just blend a few raw eggs with some bananas (or fruit of your choice) & milk add honey or cane sugar for taste. Other suggestions: increase intake of red meat and gelatin. carbs should come from rice, fruit, potatoes, and coke. Limit ice cream to small amounts.

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

Do what's harder and better and get healthier.

In the OP's case, how would you start?

 

[cremes]

HCNF looks really similar to HCLF. I use fresh OJ and fat free milk as my base. 32oz of each daily gives me the 1kcal foundation along with good vitamins and minerals. On top of that I usually eat either 450g cooked rice in broth plus 250g sweet potato or baked white potato to add another ~500 calories. To round it out I will eat pickled beets, kiwi, banana, apple, watermelon, or other seasonal fruit.

You also asked about my testosterone. I don't know how this diet has impacted it, positively or negatively. As I consider HCNF to be a therapeutic intervention, I'm not worried if it tanks it during my experiment (~90 days). I could always do TRT if I need to.

 

[thisoldtown1978]

You’re welcome. :) I would say it could be if your temps were low, but they’re not, unless they’re being kept up by stress hormones, which you would be able to tell by your pulse, if it and your temp drop after eating, if you ever experience cold extremities, including your nose and ears, if your sleep is disturbed, including a need to urinate etc. I’m sure you know the drill. lol Your arms, and what I can see of your legs, don’t look skinny to me, and if you struggled with higher cortisol in the past, it seems to me you lowered it because you don’t have a cortisol belly—I can see solid muscle there—but given the pattern of fat accumulation you described—gaining in your hips—and the fact that you strength train, I asked about your liver and elimination because I’m wondering if your estrogen and/or prolactin (tissue bound estrogen) levels are elevated. I have in my notes that Ray said a normal prolactin range is between 4 and 7 for men. Your calories seem on the low side for a male, indicating lowered thyroid function but of course, I don’t know your age and height. I’m 42 and 5’1” and I average roughly 2,500 calories, and over 3,000 when my diet is heavily dominant in carbs (simple sugars).

Thank you again for taking the time to consider this properly! Haha yes, I guess those basics are drilled into me! I can't say I've had cold extremities for many years, which is a good sign. My 8 year old labs did show sky high prolactin also, similar to cortisol, and my recent labs also showed sliiiightly high prolactin. Right at the top of the reference range. I really don't know what causes this, though. Any ideas? Not sure if it's relevant to liver, but on the odd occasion that I have an alcoholic drink, it makes me feel kind of nauseous. If it's any help, I'm 35 and about 6ft.

 

[thisoldtown1978]

HCNF looks really similar to HCLF. I use fresh OJ and fat free milk as my base. 32oz of each daily gives me the 1kcal foundation along with good vitamins and minerals. On top of that I usually eat either 450g cooked rice in broth plus 250g sweet potato or baked white potato to add another ~500 calories. To round it out I will eat pickled beets, kiwi, banana, apple, watermelon, or other seasonal fruit.

The OJ provides a little fat as do the rice and potato. Since they are plant based then it’s mostly PUFA unfortunately. By the end of the day I have usually consumed about 12 grams of it on a diet targeting 2500 calories. I don’t see any way to lower the PUFA and still eat whole foods. If I went to a completely liquid diet I could probably manage that but that seems too extreme.

Once or twice a week I have a meal with ~80 grams fat, mostly saturated, to give the old gallbladder a good squeeze. I reduce my carb intake that day to attempt to remain isocaloric but that’s harder to gauge.

Thanks. And just to confirm, you're saying that you're seeing good fat loss results with this high carb diet? I guess I'm a little hesitant to try, in case I just pile it on, you know? But it certainly sounds doable for me. Thanks for the detail.

 

[thisoldtown1978]

Your physique looks like the average peater who does not lift and eats too much Haggen dasz. Do you even lift bro? (just kidding)
DNP, aspirin, b3, caffeine, t3. GOMAD (gallon of skim milk a day). also look into raw egg protein shakes, just blend a few raw eggs with some bananas (or fruit of your choice) & milk add honey or cane sugar for taste. Other suggestions: increase intake of red meat and gelatin. carbs should come from rice, fruit, potatoes, and coke. Limit ice cream to small amounts.

Haha, I look in the mirror and wonder whether I'm doing it properly I guess I've never hit it really, really hard. I do train to failure, in the 6-12 rep range, about 3-4 sets per exercise, 3 compound exercises per session. I don't know man, maybe my stress hormones are just too high, or I'm overestimating my protein, or really overestimating my calories, or really underestimating my fat intake. So you'd also recommend high protein, high carb, and low fat?