Vit E, Boron spikes my estrogen...

[artist]

I always get a temporary water weight gain w boron but long term purely androgenic (increased muscle, less hyper mobility, less swelling). The first phase lasts like 5 days.

 

[bornamachine]

@Nomane Euger

Yes I eat liver sometimes.
For example this Thanksgiving I had some turkey liver from the bird

I've tried canned cod liver, always made me feel terrible even though delicious.

I have also even tried raw organic cow liver, one noted effect was I got flushed like I took niacin

All in all I don't avoid liver but I find it makes me feel less then well so I eat it in moderation and then it's fine, I don't feel any negatives then.

Why?

 

[bornamachine]

I always get a temporary water weight gain w boron but long term purely androgenic (increased muscle, less hyper mobility, less swelling). The first phase lasts like 5 days.

Can you clarify what you mean by purely androgenic?

So you are saying in your case you cycle on boron, you power through the negative phase of water weight and then its all benefits?

What is your age, what form do you take and how many mg's per day, at which times/mg per dose?

Thanks for your input! This is very interesting.


Yes also, i do recall now, i felt very watery like legs etc as well, not just a swelling of face cheeks and more pointed man boobies (how far ive sunk lol)

 

[bornamachine]

Just a quick update if anyone cares, I ate one carrot with garlic today Sunday at around 10am and day was pretty well.

Around 8 pm I ate another ground up carrot with nothing, following a meal, since 8:30pm my hands, feet and cheeks have been on fire (I have reddish cheeks that respond to temp changes)

It's 9:45 now, took my temp and I'm at 36.7c

My usual day time temp is 36.6c.
Usually much cooler at night.
(Usually very low morning, like 35.5-35.9)

Will try to measure tomorrow.
I wake up at 4am

 

[artist]

@bornamachine i mean what I put in parentheses…my body leans out, higher muscle, less lower body weight in terms of both fat and water. I don’t have excess emotionality (which I’m prone to) or anything from boron past that initial hump. And I’m a 33 year old woman! So yes based on symptoms I find it androgenic overall. I do take b2 which may be relevant. I don’t intentionally cycle boron I’ve just experimented w it on and off but I’m convinced on is better. I only take 3mg.

 

[bornamachine]

@artist I see, you are 33 yo female and I'm a 35 yo male, huge difference in how things will effect us! :)

 

[artist]

@bornamachine no doubt, however the androgenic or estrogen properties of substances do seem to generally translate across sexes. I would assume my capacity to receive androgenic effects is much reduced compared to yours.

 

[baccheion]

Vitamin E has progesterone-like effects. Lowering cortisol could cause estrogens to rise, as cortisol suppresses.

 

[bornamachine]

@artist hmmm... maybe, maybe I will try a small dose at some point 5 days in a row and see if I power through it into the benefit stage!

 

[bornamachine]

Vitamin E has progesterone-like effects. Lowering cortisol could cause estrogens to rise, as cortisol suppresses.

Thanks for that input. That would connect some dots. So, cortisol lowers, estrogen rises, testosterone increased to counter the rise in estrogen... Net benefit, raised testosterone... Sigh

Idk man, I've tried vitamin E before and nothing messed me up like vitE in this regard. Nut pain, boners and then days of sensitive hard nipples as a guy! What the crap, I didn't even know I had nipples under my shirt till that point!

Where do I reap the benefits though?

To me, it seems, that the benefits are, should I say, stimulatory responces, and not a true system getting better scenario, rather putting out fires

Idk, I may be wrong

 

[Nomane Euger]

@bornamachine when i experience the symptoms you described overall or associated to certains foods,in most cases eating grass fed grass finished young lamb/veal liver from warm weather do make the symptoms disappear

 

[Hans]

I see that their T increased and their E decreased overall, I just don't know, it seems like their T in the 500 range is pretty good to begin with and starting an experiment on a relatively healthy male is diff than one whose T is in let's say 200 or something. Like I said, idk, I just dont trust anything anymore! Solutions seem to flee me and many of us!

Do you perhaps have fungal issues?

 

[HighT]

I understand soy has xenoestrogen but from my memory researching back then is that it's not a problem because it is derived and extracted from, almost like saying "this paint is made out of corn" but if you cant eat or absorb that paint like you could corn in the original state, meaning that even soy derived E is same as any other E (this is what I recall)

Im not so sure about that, I remember reading Peat article how soy/sunflower vitEs are different in a way. Will try to find it.

Around 8 pm I ate another ground up carrot with nothing, following a meal, since 8:30pm my hands, feet and cheeks have been on fire (I have reddish cheeks that respond to temp changes)

So just a carrot made you warm. Nice

 

[bornamachine]

Do you perhaps have fungal issues?

Interesting that you should bring that up. Okay, there is something I wanted to ask on these forums for a while now... And question probably applies to men only

Ok this thread is about to become real

Alright here it goes, we all know how kum smells like since we dudes having said that we only know ourselfs right? Def a distinct smell idk how to describe... An organic slightly alkaline smell, not too strong, its own smell, nothing bad.

About 6 month ago I noticed that it changed to a very strong straight up bleach smell, I started researching... Well, all the descriptions describe it as smelling like bleach! Anyway, idk what happened, since I could shoot it never smelled like bleach rather like i described before. So according to froogle bleach is how it's supposed to be, but I've never smelled like bleach before, very off-putting I'd say, kinda embarrassing with the wife so I try to wrap it up (she doesn't like bleach smell to clean with bleach etc) so idk how this is gonna go if we do some other 'stuff' and the smell hits her... sucks...

I've also noticed that a couple times I had the same bleach smell on the back of my tongue if I haven't brushed it well or maybe it was just there idk, after thorough brushing no smell at all like usual.

I even noticed the smell on tissue if I ate canned fish, something that I've come to learn upsets my digestion quite a bit (I'll eat it and run to the bathroom, I don't eat it anymore) after, your buttholes on fire, you put a little tissue there to absorb anything as you squiggle through the day and a couple hours later you're okay you're good now, you pull out that tissue in the gentleman's room and pick up a faint bleachy smell...

Graphic, I know, it is what it is

Now that you mentioned it, maybe I do have something going on...

Otherwise my digestion is on point with MOST foods (no rancid stuff, canned meats from Europe, canned tuna OK)

Candida? Idk what to think, but good question...

 

[Hans]

Interesting that you should bring that up. Okay, there is something I wanted to ask on these forums for a while now... And question probably applies to men only

Ok this thread is about to become real

Alright here it goes, we all know how kum smells like since we dudes having said that we only know ourselfs right? Def a distinct smell idk how to describe... An organic slightly alkaline smell, not too strong, its own smell, nothing bad.

About 6 month ago I noticed that it changed to a very strong straight up bleach smell, I started researching... Well, all the descriptions describe it as smelling like bleach! Anyway, idk what happened, since I could shoot it never smelled like bleach rather like i described before. So according to froogle bleach is how it's supposed to be, but I've never smelled like bleach before, very off-putting I'd say, kinda embarrassing with the wife so I try to wrap it up (she doesn't like bleach smell to clean with bleach etc) so idk how this is gonna go if we do some other 'stuff' and the smell hits her... sucks...

I've also noticed that a couple times I had the same bleach smell on the back of my tongue if I haven't brushed it well or maybe it was just there idk, after thorough brushing no smell at all like usual.

I even noticed the smell on tissue if I ate canned fish, something that I've come to learn upsets my digestion quite a bit (I'll eat it and run to the bathroom, I don't eat it anymore) after, your buttholes on fire, you put a little tissue there to absorb anything as you squiggle through the day and a couple hours later you're okay you're good now, you pull out that tissue in the gentleman's room and pick up a faint bleachy smell...

Graphic, I know, it is what it is

Now that you mentioned it, maybe I do have something going on...

Otherwise my digestion is on point with MOST foods (no rancid stuff, canned meats from Europe, canned tuna OK)

Candida? Idk what to think, but good question...

Have you ever done an OAT (organic acid test) or a stool test to check for fungal or bacterial issues?

Boron is strong anti-fungal and fungus can be estrogenic, so maybe it's exposing the fungus and/or causing some die off.

 

[Sweatshop Toad]

Interesting that you should bring that up. Okay, there is something I wanted to ask on these forums for a while now... And question probably applies to men only

Ok this thread is about to become real

Alright here it goes, we all know how kum smells like since we dudes having said that we only know ourselfs right? Def a distinct smell idk how to describe... An organic slightly alkaline smell, not too strong, its own smell, nothing bad.

About 6 month ago I noticed that it changed to a very strong straight up bleach smell, I started researching... Well, all the descriptions describe it as smelling like bleach! Anyway, idk what happened, since I could shoot it never smelled like bleach rather like i described before. So according to froogle bleach is how it's supposed to be, but I've never smelled like bleach before, very off-putting I'd say, kinda embarrassing with the wife so I try to wrap it up (she doesn't like bleach smell to clean with bleach etc) so idk how this is gonna go if we do some other 'stuff' and the smell hits her... sucks...

I've also noticed that a couple times I had the same bleach smell on the back of my tongue if I haven't brushed it well or maybe it was just there idk, after thorough brushing no smell at all like usual.

I even noticed the smell on tissue if I ate canned fish, something that I've come to learn upsets my digestion quite a bit (I'll eat it and run to the bathroom, I don't eat it anymore) after, your buttholes on fire, you put a little tissue there to absorb anything as you squiggle through the day and a couple hours later you're okay you're good now, you pull out that tissue in the gentleman's room and pick up a faint bleachy smell...

Graphic, I know, it is what it is

Now that you mentioned it, maybe I do have something going on...

Otherwise my digestion is on point with MOST foods (no rancid stuff, canned meats from Europe, canned tuna OK)

Candida? Idk what to think, but good question...

For what it’s worth I’m absolutely crawling with candida, especially in my prostate/urinary tract and I’ve never experienced anything like that. Sounds like it it could be a mercury issue from your description.

 

[Osukhan]

Interesting that you should bring that up. Okay, there is something I wanted to ask on these forums for a while now... And question probably applies to men only

Ok this thread is about to become real

Alright here it goes, we all know how kum smells like since we dudes having said that we only know ourselfs right? Def a distinct smell idk how to describe... An organic slightly alkaline smell, not too strong, its own smell, nothing bad.

About 6 month ago I noticed that it changed to a very strong straight up bleach smell, I started researching... Well, all the descriptions describe it as smelling like bleach! Anyway, idk what happened, since I could shoot it never smelled like bleach rather like i described before. So according to froogle bleach is how it's supposed to be, but I've never smelled like bleach before, very off-putting I'd say, kinda embarrassing with the wife so I try to wrap it up (she doesn't like bleach smell to clean with bleach etc) so idk how this is gonna go if we do some other 'stuff' and the smell hits her... sucks...

I've also noticed that a couple times I had the same bleach smell on the back of my tongue if I haven't brushed it well or maybe it was just there idk, after thorough brushing no smell at all like usual.

I even noticed the smell on tissue if I ate canned fish, something that I've come to learn upsets my digestion quite a bit (I'll eat it and run to the bathroom, I don't eat it anymore) after, your buttholes on fire, you put a little tissue there to absorb anything as you squiggle through the day and a couple hours later you're okay you're good now, you pull out that tissue in the gentleman's room and pick up a faint bleachy smell...

Graphic, I know, it is what it is

Now that you mentioned it, maybe I do have something going on...

Otherwise my digestion is on point with MOST foods (no rancid stuff, canned meats from Europe, canned tuna OK)

Candida? Idk what to think, but good question...

very interesting, ive had candida issues for a long time and still trying to correct it. i cant add anything yet to the thread but following for now.
havent had issues with boron myself

 

[Sweatshop Toad]

very interesting, ive had candida issues for a long time and still trying to correct it. i cant add anything yet to the thread but following for now.
havent had issues with boron myself

Don’t know if you’ve seen it yet but we’ve got a thread over here with some effective strategies to reduce one’s fungal load. It’s been a gradual process but I’d say I’m about 75% better on the current protocol.

 

[bornamachine]

Have you ever done an OAT (organic acid test) or a stool test to check for fungal or bacterial issues?

Boron is strong anti-fungal and fungus can be estrogenic, so maybe it's exposing the fungus and/or causing some die off.

Wow, you are bringing up some good points, I need to get that test done.
I'll need to research on how it's done, cost, etc

 

[bornamachine]

For what it’s worth I’m absolutely crawling with candida, especially in my prostate/urinary tract and I’ve never experienced anything like that. Sounds like it it could be a mercury issue from your description.

What are your symptoms for candida? Like utis?
I know when I got married in 12' and we started poking I all of a sudden developed candida type infection on glans, I was like what the crap, never before in my life, then my wife got a yeast infection, turns out it was candida, passed for me, she used monostat, then I got it again, then she got it again, this circle jerk continued for some time, then around 14' we visited Africa where I got cut and ever since then, zero issues in either of us.

I've never had a UTI or anything of the sort, or bad breath, or a super white tongue, I don't think I ever had a candida infection to my knowledge, but I did have bad digestion at some point I stopped being able to tolerate milk or yogurt, but now, thank God, I can eat everything other then rancid foods (usually canned meats, old cookies, snacks that have rancid oil etc, also I can not do coffee, heartburn and acid reflux, earned my self quite a problem there)