Vitamin A and T3 for testosterone - dosage

Peater

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This is not low carb, I have done low carb. This is from a place of life, full of so much life and motivation that you want to achieve everything you can and fulfill your purpose. People noticing that you literally glow now with life. People around you asking what is it that you are doing, I want that to. The girl that cuts my hair today is moving her and her husband to this way because she has seen the incredible transformation. Every single aspect of health and my life are improving because I am not being poisoned and the toxins are literally oozing out every pore and liquid in my body to get out as fast as it can. This is truly an incredible experience to behold and its hard to grasp unless you see it for yourself.

Do you attribute this purely to low A? I will keep eating liver for the B vits, and selenium, and let red light and thyroid function help my body manage the Vit A situation.

JR: You’ve written Vitamin A can actually be toxic to us; should it be rubbed on the skin, as opposed to ingesting it ?

RP: My own experience with commercial vitamin A is that I used it for many years. But the product is being constantly being changed as they find cheaper ways to do it, and suddenly something about some of the products caused extreme sensitivity. I can use some forms of vitamin A wildly and generously with no effect, but some of them have additives that can make them very allergenic. And the basic toxic effect of giant doses of vitamin A, like several hundred thousand units a day, those invariably will reach a point where they will suppress your thyroid. Carotenes – the whole range of carotenes-aren’t really vitamin A. But they, even more than vitamin A, have an anti-thyroid, and potentially anti-steroid action by accumulating and displacing the vitamin A that’s necessary for metabolism in the skin, and making steroids. So you don’t want to overload, especially on the carotenes. But eventually , vitamin A itself can be an anti-thyroid, anti-steroid problem.
I got interested in vitamin A because I found that every time I worked outside in the summer, I got acne. And people had told me that sunlight was good for the skin, but I invariable got acne in proportion to my exposure to sunlight. And I figured there was some toxic effect of ultraviolet light. But then, one night I went to sleep reading with a very bright light shining in my face, and slept 8 hours with that light just a foot and half from my eyes, and woke up starting to get pimples. And I suddenly realized that it was activating not only my retinal vitamin A system, but via my eyes it was activating my hormonal system and consuming vitamin A. I found that in proportion to my light/sun exposure, if I increased the vitamin A, I could prevent acne. And it turns out to be protective in other ways. The nutrition researcher dentist Emanuel Cheraskin did surveys where he found that health complaints and symptoms decreased in a nice linear relation to increasing vitamin A, all the way up to 100,000 units per day. But anyone who is on the borderline for thyroid function, sometimes even 20,000 units will make their symptoms worse by suppressing their thyroid. So you just have to be very cautious and probably starting with 5,000 units and watching for allergic symptoms, and checking your temperature to see if it’s inhibiting your thyroid. Very often people have to get up to 20 or 30 thousand units a day, before their acne improves.
 

PopSocket

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There's some interesting studies quoted in this video:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMF56gzc-UI


But I'm not sure about his logic sometimes. He says that all retinol in humans and animals comes from carotenes, and since carotenes are apparently not needed, it follows that retinol cannot be needed either. But I don't think that follows. Why does that conversion pathway exist in humans if vitamin A is not needed? Is the body trying to poison itself?

Also, if it is indeed true that inducing any actual symptoms of a vitamin A deficiency is difficult or impossible, does it follow that vitamin A is not needed? Or is the reason that some amount of vitamin A is so crucial that the body holds onto it by whatever means?

After seeing how this guy looks and his super black under-eye bags and I am bumping my vit A intake by a few hundred percent from tomorrow.

This guys face looks TIRED from life. Must be feeling the need to push himself a bit too much.
 

CLASH

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This is not low carb, I have done low carb. This is from a place of life, full of so much life and motivation that you want to achieve everything you can and fulfill your purpose. People noticing that you literally glow now with life. People around you asking what is it that you are doing, I want that to. The girl that cuts my hair today is moving her and her husband to this way because she has seen the incredible transformation. Every single aspect of health and my life are improving because I am not being poisoned and the toxins are literally oozing out every pore and liquid in my body to get out as fast as it can. This is truly an incredible experience to behold and its hard to grasp unless you see it for yourself.

@charlie Do you mind sharing what your typical breakfast, lunch, and dinner look like?
 

charlie

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Do you attribute this purely to low A?
Its basically a low toxin diet and lifestyle. And getting the certain minerals repleted so that the liver can detox all the toxins....potassium, magnesium, selenium, molybdenum and zinc. And lately Niacin as nicotinic acid has been found to speed up the detox and kick the healing into high gear. Its truly incredible what is happening that I hope everyone will be able to experience and enjoy. We need to stop the poisoning, this is our opportunity to turn things around and restore the health of our people.
@charlie Do you mind sharing what your typical breakfast, lunch, and dinner look like?
I will have steak, and white or brown rice or white corn masa cakes or arepas with reverse osmosis or distilled water. Usually banana or apple before or after, turkey and chicken are on the menu. Pinto beans and black beans are a favorite. I make hamburgers with lean beef, or bison. White corn is good so is white corn chips. A good clean sourdough is always good, made a couple cakes over the holiday with pure glucose that was delish and left no marks...made it with pure glucose as fructose is a burden on the liver. I keep low fat as possible to take the burden off the liver, i use coconut oil for cooking.

I will add a couple of the food lists floating around the groups. @hattip to Will. The list named "low toxin diet" is the one that will catapult you into healing. Its the most dialed in one that I know.
 

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CLASH

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Its basically a low toxin diet and lifestyle. And getting the certain minerals repleted so that the liver can detox all the toxins....potassium, magnesium, selenium, molybdenum and zinc. And lately Niacin as nicotinic acid has been found to speed up the detox and kick the healing into high gear. Its truly incredible what is happening that I hope everyone will be able to experience and enjoy. We need to stop the poisoning, this is our opportunity to turn things around and restore the health of our people.
I will have steak, and white or brown rice or white corn masa cakes or arepas with reverse osmosis or distilled water. Usually banana or apple before or after, turkey and chicken are on the menu. Pinto beans and black beans are a favorite. I make hamburgers with lean beef, or bison. White corn is good so is white corn chips. A good clean sourdough is always good, made a couple cakes over the holiday with pure glucose that was delish and left no marks...made it with pure glucose as fructose is a burden on the liver. I keep low fat as possible to take the burden off the liver, i use coconut oil for cooking.

I will add a couple of the food lists floating around the groups. @hattip to Will. The list named "low toxin diet" is the one that will catapult you into healing. Its the most dialed in one that I know.
Appreciate you taking the time to share these resources charlie, thank you 👍
 

revenant

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Why are coffee, mushrooms, mangoes and watermelon bad? Quite Anti-Peat in many ways, this diet.
 

Blossom

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I think the idea is just to do the best that we can manage. I’ve not been able to give up coffee completely due to my work demands/schedule (which just changed) but I’ve cut back to the bare minimum. Working back to back 12 hour shifts in a very stressful environment has had me stuck at one cup per day. Progress not perfection has been my goal. I still have mushrooms from time to time as well but I have dietary restrictions that many others do not have to contend with so I have chosen to cut myself some slack. I’m obviously not perfectly peaty or perfectly anything else.

That’s what I was alluding to when I mentioned I can’t follow either Grant or Garrett’s diets precisely. I can only tolerate so many beans due to oxalates which isn’t an issue for most people. Wheat is out completely due to celiac and I can only tolerate masa harina and other corn products in small amounts again due to my poor oxalate handling after being floxed. That all led me to a meat based diet for quite a while which also isn’t optimal long term but for me it was the best I could manage because I tolerate meat very, very well.

With all that said I currently do eat some things that don’t conform to the typical low a/toxin lists but are still low a/beta carotene. I have more of some other foods that are frowned upon but things that are toxins for me most people can tolerate as staples.

We know ourselves better than anyone else and know what agrees with us and what doesn’t. I’ve taken the slow approach due to life circumstances which in hindsight I’m grateful for tbh. I do think it’s enough if a person has developed new mysterious health problems and suspects vA to start out by just reducing A and see how it goes. It’s pretty staggering that my blood levels are still in the higher range of normal after all this time. I’m thinking I dumped a lot when I lost 75% of my visceral fat between August and November of this year. I’ll retest in February now that I’m weight stable just for curiosity sake. I suspect visceral fat might be a large toxin depot but I haven’t really heard that discussed. Grant basically follows CR so he probably has low visceral fat.
 

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Something seems off with all this. Anti Vit A, anti Peat, Dr Mercola...
Ray Peat approved foods are now SUPER toxic, calorie restriction, beans , corn, wheat, quinoa are GOOD .... o_O

3 years into Ray Peat inspired nutrition - NEVER felt or looked better.

To the vit A toxic crowd - how long should I wait before I start deteriorating,my teeth fall off, get neurological problems and look like a crackhead ?

Some of the posts and the wording of ones thoughts seem extremely disrespectful towards Dr Peat btw.
 

charlie

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Ray Peat approved foods are now SUPER toxic
Yeh pretty much.
calorie restriction
Now you are making things up.
quinoa are GOOD
Personally I dont like it.
how long should I wait before I start deteriorating,my teeth fall off, get neurological problems and look like a crackhead ?
Depends on how full up your liver is. Some people cant last a week on the Peat diet, others, like myself did good for many years. Around the 7 or 8 year mark all hell started breaking loose for me once my liver was full up and started spilling over the toxins. It took me about 3 or 4 years to figure out what was going on, and in 1.5 years I have made a miraculous turnaround.
Something seems off with all this. Anti Vit A, anti Peat, Dr Mercola...
:tinfoilhat
We probably wont be seeing Dr. Mercola around these parts anymore. The Ray Peat cultists jackals showed themselves and he did not like it much. Many of these cultists are low energy and low vibration so I can understand him not wanting to come back around.
Quite Anti-Peat in many ways, this diet.
Peat said to eat for high metabolism, my metabolism has never been better then on a low "vitamin A" low copper and low toxin diet. So I am following in the spirit of Peat. Many of you are making a deity out of Peat who could do no wrong and that is not what he would have wanted. New and better information has come along and adjustments are being made for the better. Perceive, think, act.
 

Sumbody

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This topic is one that I have never danced with, but help me to understand as quickly as possible in it's simplest form.

Vitamin A is considered "toxic" because of its natural and or unatural accumulation in the liver and is believed to interfere with the liver's ability to play out it's role and function as the body's purifier, and I will assume it is also theorized that vitamin A affects bile secretion there as well?

It has been previously understood, or perhaps misunderstood depending on how you look at things, that excess Vitamin A can be hepatotoxic, but opposite the coin, deficiency is also linked to damage as well, and not just exclusive to the liver.

To me, as it may seem, vitamin A is to liver as iodine to thyroid.

If complete depletion was one's goal, look no further than ethanol. Prolonged and acute usage has a complete effect on liver stores as well as the body's ability to process and produce retinol from carotenoids. This is well studied, as alcoholics are the ultimate vitamin A depleters and reintroducing vitamin A has a notable effect on withdrawal recovery and many other factors.

My basic understanding would be that vitamin A is drawn from other tissues of the body in an attempt to process and detoxify the liver of excess alcohol. It is well known from here that the liver then quickly shuttles vitamin A back out of the liver to other tissues again, and maybe there is some merit here where the body, in this case, knows that excess vitamin A can be damaging, and this explains the rapid depletion of vitamin A within the liver in the presence of alcohol, where it becomes a catch 22.

It takes a lot from the body to process and remove ethanol, in addition to B vitamins and other nutrients, vitamin A is a solid player in the game.

With all the understanding of this vitamin's role, in absence and to be fair, abundance, the thought of depleting ones body completely of it seems unruly to one's homeostasis.

It is naturally present in so many foods, and our ability to produce it from cartinoids seems natural as it plays an equal role in survival. Much like we also produce glucose from carbohydrates.

Perhaps I'm missing something here?

Or perhaps not? And it is the thought of simply altering one's diet, in this case, toward depletion and restriction that will solve the issues that we feel we have?
 

charlie

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If anyone wants to get a peek into #toxicbiletheory and why it looks like Progesterone is working to help you but actually is just prolonging the inevitable take a peek into this thread I am linking as @Nick does a wonderful job explaining it:
 
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Peater

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If complete depletion was one's goal, look no further than ethanol. Prolonged and acute usage has a complete effect on liver stores as well as the body's ability to process and produce retinol from carotenoids. This is well studied, as alcoholics are the ultimate vitamin A depleters and reintroducing vitamin A has a notable effect on withdrawal recovery and many other factors.

My basic understanding would be that vitamin A is drawn from other tissues of the body in an attempt to process and detoxify the liver of excess alcohol. It is well known from here that the liver then quickly shuttles vitamin A back out of the liver to other tissues again, and maybe there is some merit here where the body, in this case, knows that excess vitamin A can be damaging, and this explains the rapid depletion of vitamin A within the liver in the presence of alcohol, where it becomes a catch 22.

It takes a lot from the body to process and remove ethanol, in addition to B vitamins and other nutrients, vitamin A is a solid player in the game.

I know it sounds stupid but I never considered alcohol in regards to 'managing' vitamin A. I knew it depleted B vits. So there's something to be said for the benefits of moderate alcohol.
 

Nick

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Depends on how full up your liver is. Some people cant last a week on the Peat diet, others, like myself did good for many years. Around the 7 or 8 year mark all hell started breaking loose for me once my liver was full up and started spilling over the toxins. It took me about 3 or 4 years to figure out what was going on, and in 1.5 years I have made a miraculous turnaround.
7 or 8 years is just about how long the Ray Peat approach worked for me. It seemed to work well for quite a while, then the last 3 years or so I had issues that are all explained perfectly by the toxic Vitamin A, toxic bile theories. It has all been turning around with a combination of low Vitamin A and low EMF. And it is not from an elimination diet effect since I am still eating a small amount of egg, cheese and milk but it is much less retinol and carotene than i was eating before, maybe around 20% of the "RDA" for "vitamin" A.
 

Sumbody

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I know it sounds stupid but I never considered alcohol in regards to 'managing' vitamin A. I knew it depleted B vits. So there's something to be said for the benefits of moderate alcohol.
The benefits of drinking in moderation come from the effects of alcohol's ability to inhibit mTORC1. Moderation is the key word here however.
 

PopSocket

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I know it sounds stupid but I never considered alcohol in regards to 'managing' vitamin A. I knew it depleted B vits. So there's something to be said for the benefits of moderate alcohol.
I proposed ethanol as a way to manage vit A toxicity symptoms in " Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity" thread but I got shut down by a few "more knowledgeable" members of the forum that said it makes things worse and it is a stupid idea ( : even though it is apparent from quite a few studies that small amounts of ethanol can be very beneficial. It does seem to help as it is a really good solvent that the body can use to get rid of some non-water soluble substances that it does not need hence the life extending properties it has. One literally pees out the unwanted stuff in a very short period of time.

Coffee enemas,ethanol with water and thyroid supplementation is the answer to those issues that many experience from the constant toxic bombardment from all sides.

Eating beans and restricting butter and other nonsense solutions.... Everything in moderation. Eating too much liver can definitely cause issues. I am starting to see how Thyroid is indeed the key to all of those issues and if ones thyroid is sluggish then vit A toxicity can easily occur and then blame it on a nutrient rather on some problem that is already existent in the system.

Edit: lack of sunlight is another issue that is very closely related to vit A toxicity symptoms. Those on a low Vit A diet look tired and their skin is looking like they are GHOSTS. Super pale and black eye bags. Is this what people are inspiring to look like ? I definitely don't want to look like a chemotherapy patient.
 
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Sumbody

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Eating beans and restricting butter and other nonsense solutions.... Everything in moderation. Eating too much liver can definitely cause issues. I am starting to see how Thyroid is indeed the key to all of those issues and if ones thyroid is sluggish then vit A toxicity can easily occur and then blame it on a nutrient rather on some problem that is already existent in the system.
Vitamin A toxicity shouldn't be an issue in hypothyroid individuals, as it's abilities and absorption are impaired.

Improving thyroid function would improve vitamin A status and it's ability to carry out processes. So by that theory, thyroid improvement would benefit vitamin A, and likely increase its bioavailability as the two are very much in cahoots with each other. As are so many other complexities of the body.

 
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EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals

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