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Ray says theyre hard to digest, but what makes them different from white potatoes?
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pboy said:theyre the most balanced and near complete food there is other than milk...they're missing a little selenium and iodine and b12, else theyre complete. Problem is, they give huge gas, like amongst the worse of starches, seemingly more the orange ones but white also...its from resistant starch, even if eaten fresh and mashed, and also they have mannitol, a sugar alcohol. If you're like working outside, chillin at home, basically in loose clothing and able to move and stand then its whatever, up to you, if you have to be sitting, studying, or gonna be playing a sport or meditating or something else like that that requires a stability and flexibility, they aren't ideal on gas alone...maybe it doesn't matter to other people but to me its a significant issue, fermentation causes breaks in the thought flow and Is just annoying and irritating and tightening
They're also too salty for me, but again, most people wouldn't notice or care, the amount seems miniscule, but when you are living on a low sodium diet and freshen your palate, its quite obvious. Last time I ate a large one it took me the whole next day and into the day after that before the salty taste wasn't present in my saliva
Do what you wish, comparatively, they are one of the best foods, if youre going for high performance at that moment, you could skip them. I think I have a different aspiration and demand for how I feel inside than 99.9999% of people, so you could just say im too picky, in which case, if you don't mind a little bit of gut stuff, nutrient wise, they are the probably the top starch food and even better than most fruit, and more reliable. Im aware almost every food on the planet has some kind of trade off, theres almost nothing that's actually...in fact, I don't think there is anything that's perfect in of itself, and theres very few things that are actually totally pure, so...relatively, they're up high on the list. You'd never get diabetes or diseases or get sick eating them as part of your diet, in fact...they're so abundant in some b vitamins and potassium they could help to buffer other less than optimal foods you're eating
pboy said:yea that's what I mean, its not something I ever would have used to notice but then I got sensitive cause of various things over time and now being used to stability something like that bothers me
I dunno where you live and whats available but you could eat like an orange one every few days and go the other days with white ones. As you'll probably notice though, a huge portion of beta carotene isn't absorbed, its trapped in the fiber even when cooked...you can tell the next day when it gets eliminated. Its probably only a third or so that gets absorbed, if I had to guess.
I have a feeling that people actually can detox beta carotene very easy, I mean we're talking a few miligrams at most even if you ate HUGE anmounts, each day. For your body to conjugate that all and eliminate it would be like nothing. The people who accumulate it probably are under eating, have an impaired metabolism for one reason or another, and their liver is probably backed up with many other toxins like pufas
What pboy said about them promoting gas. They're effective promoters of bacteria in Ray's opinion. Here's what he wrote me in an email back in February:Westside PUFAs said:Where did Ray say that? I've only ever heard him say he doesn't like the carotene.
Tom said:One point to be made about these traditional people on Kitava etc is that they were often very small. According to Lindeberg the average male was 162 cm, and the females only 150 cm. So one should take this into account when considering the caloric intake. 2000 kcal for them would be more like 2500 kcal for us. Another point is the very high intake of soluble fiber which effectively increases short chain fatty acids, so one may add 5% or even more of energy as fat.
Jennifer said:What pboy said about them promoting gas. They're effective promoters of bacteria in Ray's opinion. Here's what he wrote me in an email back in February:Westside PUFAs said:Where did Ray say that? I've only ever heard him say he doesn't like the carotene.
"Low cholesterol can be caused by intestinal inflammation, and starches are a common cause. Sweet potatoes are effective promoters of bacterial growth, rice and potatoes can cause gas especially if they aren't well cooked."
I even specified the white fleshed Japanese sweet potatoes when I asked him. But oh my gosh! They're addicting! I ate them everyday for two years straight with a tiny bit of coconut cream, salt and garlic powder added. Heaven!
Westside PUFAs said:It should be no surprise that eating starch with butter/sour cream causes gas. I don't get gas because I don't add dairy to the starch. Most people aren't willing to do it that way.
Nope! I haven't ignored that quote you posted, WP. I've pondered it many times because of what Ray has also said about the negatives of persorption. It confused me how starch being fully absorbed was good in one context, but then bad in another. I'm probably not understanding it correctly. Anyhow, reread what Ray wrote me. The key word being "especially" if they aren't well cooked. That means they still feed bacteria that cause gas. Sure, the starch present may be absorbed quickly, but I wonder about the fiber? Would it feed bacteria and perhaps this is what Ray is referring too?Westside PUFAs said:Jennifer said:What pboy said about them promoting gas. They're effective promoters of bacteria in Ray's opinion. Here's what he wrote me in an email back in February:
"Low cholesterol can be caused by intestinal inflammation, and starches are a common cause. Sweet potatoes are effective promoters of bacterial growth, rice and potatoes can cause gas especially if they aren't well cooked."
I even specified the white fleshed Japanese sweet potatoes when I asked him. But oh my gosh! They're addicting! I ate them everyday for two years straight with a tiny bit of coconut cream, salt and garlic powder added. Heaven!
This whole thing about eating undercooked vegetables and undercooked starch is so weird. Who the hell eats these foods undercooked? Only silly people, that's who.
Everyone also ignores this quote:
“Bacteria thrive on starches that aren’t quickly digested, and the bacteria convert the energy into bulk, and stimulate the intestine. (But at the same time, they are making the toxins that affect the hormones.)” - Ray Peat
Keywords there, quickly digested. Good thing the starch I eat is quickly digested. There is a difference between flour products and un-milled starch. The method of grinding corn in traditional Native America and in Kenya for Ugali is different than putting corn through a milling machine.
It should be no surprise that eating starch with butter/sour cream causes gas. I don't get gas because I don't add dairy to the starch. Most people aren't willing to do it that way.
Thanks, WP! Yes, I've already looked through the endotoxin quotes on functionalalps. I've also done a search through the RayPeat search engine on the toxinless site and read transcripts of Ray's interviews. I won't go posting all the quotes since narouz has already compiled a fair amount of Ray's quotes on starches in a thread recently.Westside PUFAs said:Here are 116 quotes by Ray Peat on endotoxin:
http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/1 ... endotoxin/
Out of 116 quotes, only 2 mention starch. Two.
Use your browsers search page option and search for starch.
“Bacteria thrive on starches that aren’t quickly digested, and the bacteria convert the energy into bulk, and stimulate the intestine. (But at the same time, they are making the toxins that affect the hormones.)”
"Bacterial endotoxin increases serotonin release from the intestine, and increases its synthesis in the brain (Nolan, et al., 2000) and liver (Endo, 1983). It also stimulates its release from platelets, and reduces the lungs’ ability to destroy it. The formation of serotonin in the intestine is also stimulated by the lactate, propionate and butyrate that are formed by bacteria fermenting fiber and starch, but these bacteria also produce endotoxin. The inflammation-producing effects of lactate, serotonin, and endotoxin are overlapping, additive, and sometimes synergistic, along with histamine, nitric oxide, bradykinin, and the cytokines."
JRMoney15 said:> Hi Dr. Peat,
>
> What is your recommendation for the best way to treat chronic hemorrhoids? I have had itchiness in the anus for at least 5 years now, and nothing seems to work effectively.
>
> Your time is greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you.
"It usually involves inflammation of the intestine, so avoiding foods that are hard to digest/that support bacterial growth will often stop the problem. Sweet potatoes, green salads, breads are typical problematic foods."