A Guess: I Have Massive Congestive Liver And Liver Pain Due To Massive Estrogen And Alcohol Needhelp

[TreasureVibe]

Hey all. I am just figuring what my health problem is that I suffer from and I think I have an idea now.

I have gnawing pain at times when laying too long on my back with a blanket or pillow pushing into the side, and when I drink alcohol I suddenly feel really bad in liver area, and I had huge spikes of estrogen and PUFA before due to T abuse. It's now just sluggish and not processing all the estrogen that's still left in me. I drank alot of alcohol in the past.

What can I do best for liver congestion to get things flushing?

I need something that really packs a punch.

Saw TUDCA but was dissapointed to read that it's just overhyped taurine. (Thanks Haidut)

Would dessicated thyroid do it? Or will I need other nutrients with that in order for it to work?

Note - Diet is currently cr4p, trying to make a new diet. I need a liver recovery diet.

I'm thinking of coffee enema but I'm afraid it will mess with my electrolytes.

Thanks.

 

[CarbAppreciator]

Any sort of "Flush" denotes a catabolic action, shedding of material from the body. Coffee is catabolic and is known to cause lipolysis especially in the liver, leading to lower liver fat content/more efficient liver function. MCT seems to stimulate ketogenesis/lipolysis and seems to cause the benefits of cocnut oil/saturated fat on the liver. Fasting/low carb should also upregulate lipolysis and downregulate fat storage which is implicated in fatty liver disease

 

[Fractality]

As a bit of an aside, how much alcohol did you used to drink?

 

[SOMO]

Even though RP poo-poos Cysteine, NAC (N-Acetyl L-Cysteine) kept AIDS suffers alive before the HAART/anti-HIV drugs were invented or easily accessible.

This is likely due to the pro-liver effects of NAC/Glutathione. I would Try NAC or Liposomal Glutathione.

 

[Amazoniac]

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q="super+diet"+liver

 

[Jpkoepse]

Hey all. I am just figuring what my health problem is that I suffer from and I think I have an idea now.

I have gnawing pain at times when laying too long on my back with a blanket or pillow pushing into the side, and when I drink alcohol I suddenly feel really bad in liver area, and I had huge spikes of estrogen and PUFA before due to T abuse. It's now just sluggish and not processing all the estrogen that's still left in me. I drank alot of alcohol in the past.

What can I do best for liver congestion to get things flushing?

I need something that really packs a punch.

Saw TUDCA but was dissapointed to read that it's just overhyped taurine. (Thanks Haidut)

Would dessicated thyroid do it? Or will I need other nutrients with that in order for it to work?

Note - Diet is currently cr4p, trying to make a new diet. I need a liver recovery diet.

I'm thinking of coffee enema but I'm afraid it will mess with my electrolytes.

Thanks.

I don't want to go against Haidut.. but the research is pretty convincing on how well TUDCA works. I haven't seen anything showing regular Taurine to work just as well.

Differences in the metabolism and disposition of ursodeoxycholic acid and of its taurine-conjugated species in patients with primary biliary cirrho... - PubMed - NCBI

Tauroursodeoxycholic acid for treatment of primary biliary cirrhosis. A dose-response study. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[benaoao]

TUDCA is taurine+UDCA. Therefore it is quite different/complementary

 

[Captain_Coconut]

TUDCA is awesome and so is taurine, they really act quite differently. For detox TUDCA makes an obvious difference within days. TUDCA is great to use for a month when you know your liver needs help, Taurine is more for preventative maintenance liver upkeep - bile promotion, taurine has a lot of roles beyond the liver, where as TUDCA is basically liver and gallbladder centric and my understanding is that it works by binding and pulling out liver sludge / toxins in the bile: a bit like cholestyramine, or mega dosing raw beets. Perhaps if you mega-dosed taurine similar effects could be had, but I feel like a zombie on high amounts of taurine - TUDCA has very little side effects other than purging nasty bile out in to the toilet. I would not recommend using TUDCA long term, I feel it could eventually compromise healthy digestion.

 

[TreasureVibe]

Any sort of "Flush" denotes a catabolic action, shedding of material from the body. Coffee is catabolic and is known to cause lipolysis especially in the liver, leading to lower liver fat content/more efficient liver function. MCT seems to stimulate ketogenesis/lipolysis and seems to cause the benefits of cocnut oil/saturated fat on the liver. Fasting/low carb should also upregulate lipolysis and downregulate fat storage which is implicated in fatty liver disease

Wow thanks man, I'm a real mess. When I drink coffee I will start to feel cold, hyperventilative-ish, weak, panicky, dissociative and even as if I'm going to pass out. I'm having huge estrogen problems, Andro makes me able to breathe. Will MCT/good quality coconut oil, fasting/low carb help for detoxing estrogen from the body too? I can fast very easily, I can just ignore my hunger in my stomach and it goes away. What does this tell?

As a bit of an aside, how much alcohol did you used to drink?

I drank alot of beers every weekend, vodka every weekend, even throughout the week I would drink vodka sometimes. I would get home drunk off my feet in the weekend. People always recommended me to have a good meal first before starting to drink but I always ignored that advice, to my health's detriment. Some weekends I just didn't eat at all other than some small snacks and went straight to drinking. The hangover from the day before plus cigarette smoking had removed all of my appetite. I smoked half a pack and sometimes a pack per day. Did that for 7 years, then stopped all of it, including smoking.

Even though RP poo-poos Cysteine, NAC (N-Acetyl L-Cysteine) kept AIDS suffers alive before the HAART/anti-HIV drugs were invented or easily accessible.

This is likely due to the pro-liver effects of NAC/Glutathione. I would Try NAC or Liposomal Glutathione.

Wow I'm definitely going to try that then! I've used NAC before and I liked the overall anti oxidant boosting feeling it gave me. Liposomal glutathione seems expensive to me though.. Is it really special for the liver or is it more of a generic type of supplement? I've read SOD was helping someone here very good, what do you think of that for the liver?

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q="super+diet"+liver

Read the link, amazing how alcohol itself doesn't cause direct damage but rather the sugars its converted into cause nutritional deficiencies and those are responsible for degenerative disease of the liver. But my main quarrel right now is with these huge, perhaps even dangerous doses of estrogen just sitting all over my body in my tissues, making me feel more and more like cr4p everyday as the days pass by. And my liver apparently shuts down when I try to detox it using progesterone, as the load off feeling is very small and as soon as the andro stops working I get the feeling I'm about to get a heart attack, breathlesness etc.

I don't want to go against Haidut.. but the research is pretty convincing on how well TUDCA works. I haven't seen anything showing regular Taurine to work just as well.

Differences in the metabolism and disposition of ursodeoxycholic acid and of its taurine-conjugated species in patients with primary biliary cirrho... - PubMed - NCBI

Tauroursodeoxycholic acid for treatment of primary biliary cirrhosis. A dose-response study. - PubMed - NCBI

Wow those studies do look impressive... Perhaps TUDCA + NAC + ...SOD?

TUDCA is taurine+UDCA. Therefore it is quite different/complementary

Yeah I am looking into TUDCA.

@Jpkoepse @benaoao Which one of these are a good TUDCA product? It appears regular online vendors don't sell it. TUDCA | eBay

TUDCA is awesome and so is taurine, they really act quite differently. For detox TUDCA makes an obvious difference within days. TUDCA is great to use for a month when you know your liver needs help, Taurine is more for preventative maintenance liver upkeep - bile promotion, taurine has a lot of roles beyond the liver, where as TUDCA is basically liver and gallbladder centric and my understanding is that it works by binding and pulling out liver sludge / toxins in the bile: a bit like cholestyramine, or mega dosing raw beets. Perhaps if you mega-dosed taurine similar effects could be had, but I feel like a zombie on high amounts of taurine - TUDCA has very little side effects other than purging nasty bile out in to the toilet. I would not recommend using TUDCA long term, I feel it could eventually compromise healthy digestion.

Yeah it sounds like the perfect thing to aid in my really entrenched liver metabolism. I'm just full of estrogens that can't get removed successfully and TUDCA sounds cool. Would adding dessicated thyroid with T3 also help liver metabolism and subsequent estrogen detox from the body?


Does someone also know what it means if progesterone just makes you feel even badder, and your urine being unsually smelly after using prog + andro? Is it estrogen or just the exogenous hormones?
Thanks for the help so far everybody, I really feel like I can beat this thing!

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Thyroid and t3 would likely help, anything that safely speeds up your metabolism should assist. Another good one is castor oil packs, and niacin (the flush kind), the flushing will dilate your liver matrix and allow things like tudca or castor oil to work faster, best to combine niacin with vit c to prevent negative effects. Eating liver will help too, as will malic acid. P.S. you don’t want to drink alcohol around days where you are taking TUDCA, you will need to give at least 12 hours space between TUDCA and alcohol, before and after. I felt very sick the one time I drank at night following a morning where I had TUDCA.

 

[TreasureVibe]

Thyroid and t3 would likely help, anything that safely speeds up your metabolism should assist. Another good one is castor oil packs, and niacin (the flush kind), the flushing will dilate your liver matrix and allow things like tudca or castor oil to work faster, best to combine niacin with vit c to prevent negative effects. Eating liver will help too, as will malic acid. P.S. you don’t want to drink alcohol around days where you are taking TUDCA, you will need to give at least 12 hours space between TUDCA and alcohol, before and after. I felt very sick the one time I drank at night following a morning where I had TUDCA.

I'm not going to be drinking anytime soon in this state LOL! If I drink 2 beers I will already start feeling sick with high estrogen symptoms. Niacin causes lypolysis which could technically mean more burden for the liver right? I like vitamin C, I'm thinking of getting a nature derived vitamin C powder. The synthetic kind is a very unstable molecule apparently. I have beef liver powder and if I take it, I will feel sick in my liver, as if it's getting overburdened. I thought it would aid my liver but it has the opposite effect. Castor oil packs, what do they do? Are they expensive? I have malic acid here at home, I like it for aluminum detox. What's a good and reliable TUDCA product? And can Andro help detox estrogen from the body too according to your knowledge? I really like how it's helping me so far in this state I feel much better. When it stops working I start feeling like cr4p again.

Thanks for the help. Really appreciating it.

 

[Waynish]

I'm not going to be drinking anytime soon in this state LOL! If I drink 2 beers I will already start feeling sick with high estrogen symptoms. Niacin causes lypolysis which could technically mean more burden for the liver right? I like vitamin C, I'm thinking of getting a nature derived vitamin C powder. The synthetic kind is a very unstable molecule apparently. I have beef liver powder and if I take it, I will feel sick in my liver, as if it's getting overburdened. I thought it would aid my liver but it has the opposite effect. Castor oil packs, what do they do? Are they expensive? I have malic acid here at home, I like it for aluminum detox. What's a good and reliable TUDCA product? And can Andro help detox estrogen from the body too according to your knowledge? I really like how it's helping me so far in this state I feel much better. When it stops working I start feeling like cr4p again.

Thanks for the help. Really appreciating it.

We should get a thread on this forum composed of a list of supplements that may increase liver burden *at all*. Would be very useful for people.

 

[Such_Saturation]

You can’t feel pain *in* your liver. Get some blood tests.

 

[Jpkoepse]

Wow thanks man, I'm a real mess. When I drink coffee I will start to feel cold, hyperventilative-ish, weak, panicky, dissociative and even as if I'm going to pass out. I'm having huge estrogen problems, Andro makes me able to breathe. Will MCT/good quality coconut oil, fasting/low carb help for detoxing estrogen from the body too? I can fast very easily, I can just ignore my hunger in my stomach and it goes away. What does this tell?


I drank alot of beers every weekend, vodka every weekend, even throughout the week I would drink vodka sometimes. I would get home drunk off my feet in the weekend. People always recommended me to have a good meal first before starting to drink but I always ignored that advice, to my health's detriment. Some weekends I just didn't eat at all other than some small snacks and went straight to drinking. The hangover from the day before plus cigarette smoking had removed all of my appetite. I smoked half a pack and sometimes a pack per day. Did that for 7 years, then stopped all of it, including smoking.


Wow I'm definitely going to try that then! I've used NAC before and I liked the overall anti oxidant boosting feeling it gave me. Liposomal glutathione seems expensive to me though.. Is it really special for the liver or is it more of a generic type of supplement? I've read SOD was helping someone here very good, what do you think of that for the liver?


Read the link, amazing how alcohol itself doesn't cause direct damage but rather the sugars its converted into cause nutritional deficiencies and those are responsible for degenerative disease of the liver. But my main quarrel right now is with these huge, perhaps even dangerous doses of estrogen just sitting all over my body in my tissues, making me feel more and more like cr4p everyday as the days pass by. And my liver apparently shuts down when I try to detox it using progesterone, as the load off feeling is very small and as soon as the andro stops working I get the feeling I'm about to get a heart attack, breathlesness etc.


Wow those studies do look impressive... Perhaps TUDCA + NAC + ...SOD?


Yeah I am looking into TUDCA.

@Jpkoepse @benaoao Which one of these are a good TUDCA product? It appears regular online vendors don't sell it. TUDCA | eBay


Yeah it sounds like the perfect thing to aid in my really entrenched liver metabolism. I'm just full of estrogens that can't get removed successfully and TUDCA sounds cool. Would adding dessicated thyroid with T3 also help liver metabolism and subsequent estrogen detox from the body?


Does someone also know what it means if progesterone just makes you feel even badder, and your urine being unsually smelly after using prog + andro? Is it estrogen or just the exogenous hormones?
Thanks for the help so far everybody, I really feel like I can beat this thing!

You can find it om Amazon. Also, some research chem sites sell it.

 

[SOMO]

/

TUDCA is awesome and so is taurine, they really act quite differently. For detox TUDCA makes an obvious difference within days. TUDCA is great to use for a month when you know your liver needs help, Taurine is more for preventative maintenance liver upkeep - bile promotion, taurine has a lot of roles beyond the liver, where as TUDCA is basically liver and gallbladder centric and my understanding is that it works by binding and pulling out liver sludge / toxins in the bile: a bit like cholestyramine, or mega dosing raw beets. Perhaps if you mega-dosed taurine similar effects could be had, but I feel like a zombie on high amounts of taurine - TUDCA has very little side effects other than purging nasty bile out in to the toilet. I would not recommend using TUDCA long term, I feel it could eventually compromise healthy digestion.

Bile acids are recycled (reabsorbed.) Without mentioning anything else about bile acids, I think this resorption is indicative of how useful they are to the body.

I imagine gallstones or having a gallbladder removed affects digestion just as much as having a section of your colon removed. I heard a lot of people have issues with cholestyramine though and it can affect absorption of the fat-soluble vitamins, including E and K which most people are deficient in likely.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

What's a good and reliable TUDCA product?

I was happy with Nutricost brand. Castor oil packs stimulate the lymph system and speed up healing.

 

[TreasureVibe]

We should get a thread on this forum composed of a list of supplements that may increase liver burden *at all*. Would be very useful for people.

Agreed!

You can’t feel pain *in* your liver. Get some blood tests.

I'm getting an inflammation blood test, will that be enough?

You can find it om Amazon. Also, some research chem sites sell it.

Amazon usually doesn't ship to Europe and when it does the shipping cost are kind of expensive... Found a Nutricost TUDCA with cheap shipping new on Ebay though. Is it a good brand? Here's the Amazon page for it: Nutricost TUDCA Pills, 250mg Per Capsule, 60 Capsules | eBay

Bile acids are recycled (reabsorbed.) Without mentioning anything else about bile acids, I think this resorption is indicative of how useful they are to the body.

I imagine gallstones or having a gallbladder removed affects digestion just as much as having a section of your colon removed. I heard a lot of people have issues with cholestyramine though and it can affect absorption of the fat-soluble vitamins, including E and K which most people are deficient in likely.

So, what does this mean, should I use activated charcoal? How else to get rid of toxin-filled bile?

I was happy with Nutricost brand. Castor oil packs stimulate the lymph system and speed up healing.

I found this seller on ebay selling the Nutricost brand, looks like a reputable seller: Nutricost TUDCA Pills, 250mg Per Capsule, 60 Capsules | eBay

Btw I got advice from another topic to add vitamin B1 and B2 as those are essential for estrogen detoxification so those will be in my regimen too.

 

[dbh25]

You can’t feel pain *in* your liver. Get some blood tests.

Have you seen a doctor?

 

[TreasureVibe]

Have you seen a doctor?

Yeah I have, I'm going to get my blood tested soon.

Will drinking milk, which contains estrogen but is easily secreted normally, be wise to do in my state of high toxic estrogenity with clogged liver?

 

[dbh25]

Will drinking milk, which contains estrogen but is easily secreted normally, be wise to do in my state of high toxic estrogenity with clogged liver?

I don't know. I hope you found a good doctor to figure it out.