Above All, Reduce Iron

[tankasnowgod]

Woowww amaaazing


So I will start donating ASAP
Should I drink something after donating or... ?

Honestly I'm just asking for the safety @dbh25

Yep, you certainly want to eat something carby and sugary after donation, and have a good meal before donating. I think dehydration and hypoglycemia are the biggest risks in the hours after donating, while at the same time, are the most easily prevented. Orange juice, cookies, candy, and things like gatorade are provided by centers, and they serve a very useful purpose.

 

[tankasnowgod]

So since citrus has something in it that blocks iron, is it good to drink orange juice with say a steak?

Most iron researchers would say no, mainly cause the vitamin c content increases absorption of iron. However, I'm beginning to have some doubts about that.

In this study, researchers found that Orange Juice, along with a high fat, high carb meal stopped the pro-inflamatory endotoxin response- Orange juice neutralizes the proinflammatory effect of a high-fat, high-carbohydrate meal and prevents endotoxin increase and Toll-like receptor expression

I recall seeing a video with the main researcher, Dr. Dandona, and he said it was a fast food type meal, with meat, hashbrowns and an Egg McMuffin. So, high fat, high PUFA, high carb, high starch, high iron (both supplemental and from food), highly processed, and orange juice with the meal had positive anti-inflammatory effects, and even led to some minor weight loss.

Alcohol also leads to increased iron absorption, but red wine IS recommended with high iron meals, as the tannins supposedly inhibit iron. I think the naringin in Orange Juice may be beneficial in a similar way.

I, personally, have started to drink Orange Juice with or near high iron meals. I am going to continue donating blood, and monitor iron levels.

 

[Lucas]

I have hypothyroidism and my ferritin is 230. It is the thyroid or iron that is causing my joint pain on legs? I am scare, since I now bench press more than I squat in the gym!!

 

[Bahaa El wazzan]

Yep, you certainly want to eat something carby and sugary after donation, and have a good meal before donating. I think dehydration and hypoglycemia are the biggest risks in the hours after donating, while at the same time, are the most easily prevented. Orange juice, cookies, candy, and things like gatorade are provided by centers, and they serve a very useful purpose.

Thanks man :)

 

[Peater Piper]

@dbh25
I was looking to my last blood test

There is no iron or ferritin

I had to request an iron panel since it wasn't part of the routine labs. I assumed maybe it was because I'm still fairly young (34) and presumably iron overload shouldn't be a concern, however my father's a Type 2 diabetic, overweight, in his 70's, loves beef, and I couldn't find an iron panel on any of his blood work either, despite him being a prime candidate for iron overload! At his last doctor's visit I wrote down the iron tests I wanted done, and his doctor agreed to add them to the other blood panels.

I have hypothyroidism and my ferritin is 230. It is the thyroid or iron that is causing my joint pain on legs? I am scare, since I now bench press more than I squat in the gym!!

Well, iron increases oxidative stress, so I suppose it could cause the joint pain. 230 is high, but it's not insane. I'm not sure how high it has to get, and for how long, before you start to really notice symptoms. I suspect there's many older men that have been walking around with ferritin levels over 300 for decades. Hypothyroidism can also cause achy joints, as can inflammation in the gut, nutritional deficiencies, etc.

 

[Bahaa El wazzan]

I had to request an iron panel since it wasn't part of the routine labs. I assumed maybe it was because I'm still fairly young (34) and presumably iron overload shouldn't be a concern, however my father's a Type 2 diabetic, overweight, in his 70's, loves beef, and I couldn't find an iron panel on any of his blood work either, despite him being a prime candidate for iron overload! At his last doctor's visit I wrote down the iron tests I wanted done, and his doctor agreed to add them to the other blood panels.


Well, iron increases oxidative stress, so I suppose it could cause the joint pain. 230 is high, but it's not insane. I'm not sure how high it has to get, and for how long, before you start to really notice symptoms. I suspect there's many older men that have been walking around with ferritin levels over 300 for decades. Hypothyroidism can also cause achy joints, as can inflammation in the gut, nutritional deficiencies, etc.

Thanks man :)

 

[sprinter]

Most iron researchers would say no, mainly cause the vitamin c content increases absorption of iron. However, I'm beginning to have some doubts about that.

In this study, researchers found that Orange Juice, along with a high fat, high carb meal stopped the pro-inflamatory endotoxin response- Orange juice neutralizes the proinflammatory effect of a high-fat, high-carbohydrate meal and prevents endotoxin increase and Toll-like receptor expression

I recall seeing a video with the main researcher, Dr. Dandona, and he said it was a fast food type meal, with meat, hashbrowns and an Egg McMuffin. So, high fat, high PUFA, high carb, high starch, high iron (both supplemental and from food), highly processed, and orange juice with the meal had positive anti-inflammatory effects, and even led to some minor weight loss.

Alcohol also leads to increased iron absorption, but red wine IS recommended with high iron meals, as the tannins supposedly inhibit iron. I think the naringin in Orange Juice may be beneficial in a similar way.

I, personally, have started to drink Orange Juice with or near high iron meals. I am going to continue donating blood, and monitor iron levels.

Cool. Thanks. I'd be curious to hear what happens!

 

[Amazoniac]

Why not just call them organic and inorganic irons, instead of heme and nonheme? What about their difference once absorbed? Aren't inorganic forms of minerals usually less safe; or in other words, would the absorbtion of the same excess of iron be even more detrimental if it's mostly inorganic?

 

[Amazoniac]

I eat liver as a snack separate from the meal with some
200-300 mg calcium supplement and some coffee with sugar.

How do you prepare it?

 

[SQu]

From the grocer. :) I ate half a bunch per day.

I'm trying this too. I like cilantro but not sure I can eat that much a day for the months that might be required. However, juicing it works for me. I probably get an ounce this way. Could do more. Any thoughts on whether this would be effective enough?

 

[tankasnowgod]

Why not just call them organic and inorganic irons, instead of heme and nonheme? What about their difference once absorbed? Aren't inorganic forms of minerals usually less safe; or in other words, would the absorbtion of the same excess of iron be even more detrimental if it's mostly inorganic?

Because both heme and non-heme can be organic forms of iron, while all inorganic iron is non-heme. Heme iron only comes from animal foods (and, in fact, animal foods usually contain a mix of both heme and non-heme), while all plant based iron (like the iron in spinach) is non-heme.

On top of that, there are various forms of inorganic iron. Sodium Iron EDTA, for example, was designed to have a higher bioavailabilty than Ferrous Sulfate.

I do think inorganic iron can be more detrimental than organic iron (whether it be heme or non-heme). Both plants and animals have developed ways to protect themselves from the harmful effects of iron. Inorganic forms will carry no such protection when ingested, inhaled, injected, or taken transdermally. I think the risk of supplemental iron could even come simply from passing through the digestive system, and wouldn't even have to be absorbed to cause damage. It could help to overload macrophages, and possibly lead to colon cancer.

 

[Amazoniac]

Because both heme and non-heme can be organic forms of iron, while all inorganic iron is non-heme. Heme iron only comes from animal foods (and, in fact, animal foods usually contain a mix of both heme and non-heme), while all plant based iron (like the iron in spinach) is non-heme.

On top of that, there are various forms of inorganic iron. Sodium Iron EDTA, for example, was designed to have a higher bioavailabilty than Ferrous Sulfate.

I do think inorganic iron can be more detrimental than organic iron (whether it be heme or non-heme). Both plants and animals have developed ways to protect themselves from the harmful effects of iron. Inorganic forms will carry no such protection when ingested, inhaled, injected, or taken transdermally. I think the risk of supplemental iron could even come simply from passing through the digestive system, and wouldn't even have to be absorbed to cause damage. It could help to overload macrophages, and possibly lead to colon cancer.

For some reason I thought that non-heme iron was exclusively inorganic..
Thank you for the clarification!

 

[ecstatichamster]

So since citrus has something in it that blocks iron, is it good to drink orange juice with say a steak?

No quite the opposite. Vitamin C enhances iron absorption quite a lot.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/30/2/235.short

If taken only with breakfast, this level of supplementation would produce a nearly 2-fold increase in the amount of iron absorbed daily. If taken in divided doses with each mean, the increase in iron absorption would be more than 3-fold.

 

[Luann]

So since citrus has something in it that blocks iron, is it good to drink orange juice with say a steak?

NO lol

 

[zztr]

I've had some problems and made changes that helped, but absolutely nothing benefited me so immediately obviously as blood donation. In the last five months I donated on schedule twice. Both times in the ensuing three days I slept like like a baby and continued to feel better and better for a couple weeks.

I would suggest anyone try it, all things considered.

The question I have is how does one go about having a pint of blood taken and thrown away? The American Red Cross screening rules for donation are ridiculously stringent and probably impact a lot of people. I had to lie on account of spending more than three months in France/UK in the 90s. No, I don't have Mad Cows disease. I didn't feel bad about lying because it's silly. This might technically be some sort of crime, I don't know.

In any case, I would be perfectly willing to pay somebody $200 every couple months to draw a pint of blood and throw it away. It seems easy enough to DIY, but very likely a goofy way to win a Darwin Award. The obvious answer is to have a nurse friend.

The barbershop pole used to signify services including bleeding along with haircuts and shaves. I wish it were that simple that I could get my hair cut and a half pint taken out. Is there an easy way to pay for it these days? Could one phone up Quest Diagnostics and pay for "Take a pint and throw it out."

 

[natedawggh]

NO lol

I'm trying this too. I like cilantro but not sure I can eat that much a day for the months that might be required. However, juicing it works for me. I probably get an ounce this way. Could do more. Any thoughts on whether this would be effective enough?

Yeah I don't see any problems with that. You'd know if it was effective by seeing improvements in bloating or weight gain if you have that. If you can't do cilantro you can use milk thistle and/or hesperedin but only if you are actively getting vitamin A and/or D which mobilize iron from the stored tissues. If you're not getting those vitamins the iron remains locked away in places milk thistle and hesperidin cannot reach.

 

[SQu]

Thanks for your reply

 

[FredSonoma]

Yeah I don't see any problems with that. You'd know if it was effective by seeing improvements in bloating or weight gain if you have that. If you can't do cilantro you can use milk thistle and/or hesperedin but only if you are actively getting vitamin A and/or D which mobilize iron from the stored tissues. If you're not getting those vitamins the iron remains locked away in places milk thistle and hesperidin cannot reach.

Oh interesting. That is true for cilantro as well, about the Vitamin A / D?

 

[paymanz]

http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/02/15/vitamin-c-and-iron-absorption/

Apparently vitamin c doesn't make a big change in iron absorption from animal sources.

 

[Mittir]

How do you prepare it?

I cut liver into one fourth inch cubes and wash with water. This helps to remove
the odd taste without needing to soak in milk or acidic juice. Then cook in coconut
oil for 4-5 minutes with little bit of onion and garlic. If i plan to make liver pate then
i add a lot of onion.