Antibiotics and histamine reactions

[LJS]

Does anyone know why Clarithromycin would give me a severe histamine reaction? If it's just the helicobactor dying then I can probably push through but my eyes are watering and nose running and sneezing and I'm worried my body is too weak to deal with antibiotics.

I do have histamine issues but usually anxiety and gastritis and itchy skin, not hay fever type symptoms which this antibiotic is causing.

Activated charcoal helps, cypro semi helps but makes me crash asleep. (I only take 0.5mg - 1mg)

I took 50mg the previous 2 days and 100mg today and it's really bad today. Every time I eat anything it gets worse, even safe foods.

If anyone has experienced this or has an idea of whether to keep going, please let me know

 

[Logan-]

You may take a laxative like magnesium at least two hours before or after you take the antibiotic. That would reduce the endotoxin load, the histamine, serotonin, estrogen etc.

 

[LJS]

You may take a laxative like magnesium at least two hours before or after you take the antibiotic. That would reduce the endotoxin load, the histamine, serotonin, estrogen etc.

Okay I will try that. As someone who is super reactive and doesn't tolerate many foods or supplements, I'm wondering if I need an even smaller dose than what Ray Peat recommends...Or If i need get my thyroid better to handle the antibiotics better

 

[Logan-]

If you need antibiotics, you need them. I would use magnesium, Ray’s carrot salad and/or cascara sagrada to see if they help.

 

[mostlylurking]

Does anyone know why Clarithromycin would give me a severe histamine reaction?

Searching for "Clarithromycin" and "thiamine" shows that Clarithromycin interferes/blocks/"interacts" with thiamine function. Not good.

ATI Thiamine Medication Sheet - ACTIVE LEARNING TEMPLATES THERAPEUTIC PROCEDURE A Medication STUDENT - Studocu

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Interfering with thiamine function should be taken seriously.

If it's just the helicobactor dying then I can probably push through but my eyes are watering and nose running and sneezing and I'm worried my body is too weak to deal with antibiotics.

more info about clarithromycin:

https://www.epocrates.com/online/drugs/450/clarithromycin

 

[LJS]

Searching for "Clarithromycin" and "thiamine" shows that Clarithromycin interferes/blocks/"interacts" with thiamine function. Not good.

ATI Thiamine Medication Sheet - ACTIVE LEARNING TEMPLATES THERAPEUTIC PROCEDURE A Medication STUDENT - Studocu

Share free summaries, lecture notes, exam prep and more!!

www.studocu.com

Interfering with thiamine function should be taken seriously.



more info about clarithromycin:

https://www.epocrates.com/online/drugs/450/clarithromycin

No doubt I’m probably thiamine deficient but struggle with all supps. Trying to eat liver

I’ve stopped the clarithromycin because the reactions were too bad and causing so much histamine I could barely function. This actually happened with doxy too

Anything that seems to kill endotoxin (or any detox) screws my histamine (then estrogen and serotonin I assume) to the point I have to stop.

I’m just so reactive that I’m not sure how to get out of the endotoxin cycle. I react to progest e with bad headaches and cortisol.

Are there super sensitive peoples stories I should read as all the things that are meant to help (eg aspirin, progesterone, cascara, raw carrot salad) seen to worsen my histamine…

 

[mostlylurking]

No doubt I’m probably thiamine deficient but struggle with all supps. Trying to eat liver

If you have been taking antibiotics, chances are you have exacerbated the problem with thiamine deficiency. Thiamine is required for staying alive. Thiamine is required to be healthy and have all your body systems work properly.

I’ve stopped the clarithromycin because the reactions were too bad and causing so much histamine I could barely function. This actually happened with doxy too

So you took doxycycline too? How many antibiotics have you taken in the past 6 months? Can you please list them?

Anything that seems to kill endotoxin (or any detox) screws my histamine (then estrogen and serotonin I assume) to the point I have to stop.

I've lived through many years of gut disbiosis: leaky gut, SIBO, poor peristalsis, very low stomach acid. I got well when I focused on high dosing thiamine hcl and also started taking higher doses of magnesium. According to Ray Peat, thiamine and magnesium are needed to heal the gut.

There will always be gut bacteria inside you. It is supposed to be there. The problem happens when the bacteria migrates through the intestinal wall and into the circulatory system. If you focus on keeping the intestine healthy so it functions properly, including acting as a barrier to the bacteria, your health will improve.

I’m just so reactive that I’m not sure how to get out of the endotoxin cycle. I react to progest e with bad headaches and cortisol.

Healing the gut is key. Providing the body the things that it needs to do that would be helpful. Everybody has gut bacteria; most people's guts keep the bacteria inside the intestine.

Are there super sensitive peoples stories I should read as all the things that are meant to help (eg aspirin, progesterone, cascara, raw carrot salad) seen to worsen my histamine…

In 1994, I was diagnosed as being almost universally reactive (via an ALCAT food and chemical sensitivity test). I was very sick. I've lived through many years of poor health because my body was carrying a load of heavy metals, including mercury and lead. The heavy metals had depleted my body of thiamine. Lead and mercury have an affinity for sulfur. There is a sulfur component in the thiamine molecule and it gets inactivated by the heavy metals. Mercury also has a strong affinity for selenium. Selenium is needed by the body for the conversion of T4 into T3 via Diodinase 1 and 2. Without it, the body's thyroid hormones can't work because T4 is inactive and the body can't convert T4 into the active T3 without selenium. It's body chemistry.

I found Ray Peat's work in 2015 when I was stricken with rheumatoid arthritis, which resulted from a doctor chelating me with EDTA IVs WITHOUT checking my thiamine status first. Because I was deficient in thiamine (from the heavy metals), the chelation treatments nearly killed me and left me with rheumatoid arthritis. I recovered from the rheumatoid arthritis via optimized desiccated thyroid medication thanks to the knowledge of a good endocrinologist (and Ray Peat - his work gave me the understanding to recognize expert help when I found it).

Fast forward to summer of 2020, I got a urinary tract infection. The local clinic prescribed Bactrim antibiotic. Things didn't go well and the infection returned. So I took a different antibiotic. This repeated several times that summer. End of August, a doctor prescribed Augmentin (penicillin with a chaser of another antibiotic) which did finally clear the UTI. However, I was still sick and getting worse by the day. By end of September, I was really in trouble. I couldn't walk a straight line, rolling over in bed was excruciating, my head was stuffed with cotton, my body temperature was below normal, my pulse was erratic, and I hurt all over (lactic acidosis). These symptoms are indicative of Wernicke's Encepholopathy.

I remembered that Haidut had mentioned that thiamine can clear lactic acid so in October I tried taking 300-350 mg of thiamine hcl with a glass of water in the early afternoon. Within 45 minutes, my body temp went up a full degree (to normal), my head cleared, and my inflammation/pain disappeared. I realized that I had stumbled upon a major key to my health problems. So I researched thiamine a LOT and kept taking it, in ever larger doses over a period of 4 months. By January of 2021 I was taking 750 mg of thiamine hcl 2Xday. I felt that I needed to increase the dose yet again so I researched on line and found Dr. Costantini's website and decided to follow his protocol which said that my dose of oral thiamine hcl should probably be 1 gram, 2Xday, always with water only, away from food by at least 30 minutes, last dose before 3:00pm. Within 2 days of taking this amount daily, my entire digestive tract normalized. I could swallow without difficulty; my stomach acid was high enough to digest meat (which I craved), and I could POOP!! Hah!!

In addition to the high dose thiamine hcl, I also take magnesium glycinate, niacinamide, riboflavin, selenium, and a few other things.

But enough about me.

You have zeroed in on histamine and serotonin as being your problem. For your consideration, here are some links:

Regional changes in brain histamine levels following dietary-induced thiamine deficiency in rats - PubMed

Histamine levels in thiamine deficient rats were significantly lower in the hippocampus, amygdala, olfactory bulb, thalamus and pons-medulla oblongata than those of normal and pair-fed groups. In the case of the hypothalamus, thiamine deficiency produced a significant increase in histamine...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effects of thiamine administration on hypothermia and hypothalamic histamine levels in dietary-induced thiamine deficient rats - PubMed

The rats maintained on a thiamine-deficient diet for 30 days showed hypothermia, and their histamine levels increased significantly in both the anterior and posterior hypothalamus. When these rats were administered, thiamine disulfide and/or provided with thiamine-added diet for a further 30...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thiamine deficiency: selective impairment of the cerebellar serotonergic system - PubMed

To explore the role of thiamine deficiency in synaptic transmission, the high-affinity uptake and release systems for putative neurotransmitters were studied in synaptosomal preparations isolated from the telencephalon, hypothalamus, and cerebellum of rats made thiamine deficient by diet or...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Uptake and Metabolism of Serotonin and Amino Acids in Thiamine Deficiency

Thiamine deficiency (TD) in humans causes a well known clinical syndrome in which cerebellar ataxia, ophthalmoplegia and mental changes prevail (Wernicke’s encephalopathy). Some patients, who survive this acute encephalopathy, develop a characteristic chronic...

link.springer.com

also:

Serotonin Syndrome and Thiamine: Is There a Connection? - Hormones Matter

A mild deficiency of thiamine is responsible for the large number of the polysymptomatic illnesses reported.

www.hormonesmatter.com

and:

Thiamine and the Microbiome - Hormones Matter

Health depends on the 70-100 trillion single-celled organisms that live in our intestines.

www.hormonesmatter.com

also:

The Harmful Effects of Antibiotics on the Human Microbiome- Hormones Matter

Antibiotic overuse is killing your microbiome and may be linked to serious degenerative diseases.

www.hormonesmatter.com

 

[LJS]

@mostlylurking

Thank you I will look into all of this. Thank you for sharing. I think I need to calm down my inflamed stomach before I can handle any supplements but I will look into Thiamine further. I have quite a few types here that I have already bought.