Never Broken- sugarbabe's log

[PeskyPeater]

Cool finding @sugarbabe

This seems to be that research article
Redefining differential roles of MAO-A in dopamine degradation and MAO-B in tonic GABA synthesis - Experimental & Molecular Medicine
Monoamine oxidase (MAO) is believed to mediate the degradation of monoamine neurotransmitters, including dopamine, in the brain. Between the two types of MAO, MAO-B has been believed to be involved in dopamine degradation, which supports the idea that the therapeutic efficacy of MAO-B inhibitors in Parkinson’s disease can be attributed to an increase in extracellular dopamine concentration. However, this belief has been controversial. Here, by utilizing in vivo phasic and basal electrochemical monitoring of extracellular dopamine with fast-scan cyclic voltammetry and multiple-cyclic square wave voltammetry and ex vivo fluorescence imaging of dopamine with GRABDA2m, we demonstrate that MAO-A, but not MAO-B, mainly contributes to striatal dopamine degradation. In contrast, our whole-cell patch-clamp results demonstrated that MAO-B, but not MAO-A, was responsible for astrocytic GABA-mediated tonic inhibitory currents in the rat striatum. We conclude that, in contrast to the traditional belief, MAO-A and MAO-B have profoundly different roles: MAO-A regulates dopamine levels, whereas MAO-B controls tonic GABA levels. Experimental & Molecular Medicine (2021)

Direct link - PDF

 

[InChristAlone]

Cool finding @sugarbabe

This seems to be that research article
Redefining differential roles of MAO-A in dopamine degradation and MAO-B in tonic GABA synthesis - Experimental & Molecular Medicine
Monoamine oxidase (MAO) is believed to mediate the degradation of monoamine neurotransmitters, including dopamine, in the brain. Between the two types of MAO, MAO-B has been believed to be involved in dopamine degradation, which supports the idea that the therapeutic efficacy of MAO-B inhibitors in Parkinson’s disease can be attributed to an increase in extracellular dopamine concentration. However, this belief has been controversial. Here, by utilizing in vivo phasic and basal electrochemical monitoring of extracellular dopamine with fast-scan cyclic voltammetry and multiple-cyclic square wave voltammetry and ex vivo fluorescence imaging of dopamine with GRABDA2m, we demonstrate that MAO-A, but not MAO-B, mainly contributes to striatal dopamine degradation. In contrast, our whole-cell patch-clamp results demonstrated that MAO-B, but not MAO-A, was responsible for astrocytic GABA-mediated tonic inhibitory currents in the rat striatum. We conclude that, in contrast to the traditional belief, MAO-A and MAO-B have profoundly different roles: MAO-A regulates dopamine levels, whereas MAO-B controls tonic GABA levels. Experimental & Molecular Medicine (2021)

Direct link - PDF

Yes, neurotransmitter research is ever evolving!

 

[InChristAlone]

So the more I think about it the more I think it's the answer. The Chex mix was seriously helping me! Lol. It's junk food but I was doing so much better when I was eating it everyday. I think it was binding up my toxic bile. But the other ways of doing that have not worked for me. It's either that or the stimulation from MSG or the loads of salt. But I hate most other junk foods so if it's the salt I don't notice it from other things. The only problem is it causes IBS cramping after about 4 days like clockwork. And that pain is just horrible. But I felt good even on the day I had the IBS! Unbelievable really. So last few days I've had very little fiber in my diet and I feel like utter crap, headache, achey, hot flashes, no energy albeit I did start my period 3 days ago, but it's been a pretty bad one.

So question is can I ever eat fiber without the wretched IBS?!

 

[PeskyPeater]

Yes, well cooked greens, the cellulose is anti-inflammatory and helps support good microbiome. Otherwise some losartan.

I would not eat grain fiber for the scratching effect of it is not desirable, except for oat bran.

 

[PeskyPeater]

Pro tip- if you eat rice or potatoes, make sure they are initially fresh and uncooked, not precooked for that increases retrograded starch and acts like fermentable fiber. Never cook or reheat cooked-and-cooled starches, left overs. Neither extruded starch products like popcorn or cornflakes etc.

 

[InChristAlone]

Yes, well cooked greens, the cellulose is anti-inflammatory and helps support good microbiome. Otherwise some losartan.

I would not eat grain fiber for the scratching effect of it is not desirable, except for oat bran.

I do wonder if greens would be helpful I just don't know how to get in enough cooked to matter. The only vegetable I enjoy are green beans, I can tolerate roasted veggies though. Who eats enough cooked leafy greens here ?
The thing with grain fiber is it seems to help my liver by binding toxic bile as I do have some excess cholesterol. The consistency of the stool turns perfect. Fruit fiber if it's ripe fruit can as well, but access to loads of ripe fruit is difficult.

Pro tip- if you eat rice or potatoes, make sure they are initially fresh and uncooked, not precooked for that increases retrograded starch and acts like fermentable fiber. Never cook or reheat cooked-and-cooled starches, left overs. Neither extruded starch products like popcorn or cornflakes etc.

Yeah Chex mix would be a lot resistant starches. I never did well with resistant starch from potatoes for instance seems to increase anxiety.

 

[PeskyPeater]

I have been eating greens a couple of meals a day with potatoes or rice. But what is enough? I think the minimum for a good effect on the gut is enough, that's it. I don't eat it to acquire a certain amount of nutrients.

Cellulose bind bile. https://www.researchgate.net/public..._acids_by_cellulose-based_cationic_adsorbents

As medium carrots and a portion of oat bran have about 2-3 grams of fiber, 1 or 2 portions of greens ~100 gr comes close to that.
You do not need much greens initially, you want to build up slowly. Choose the ones high in calcium low in fosfate: Collards, Beet greens, Kale, Chinese cabbage, Bok Choy, Organic spinach. link
Well cooked broccoli and Brussels sprouts contain high amounts of vitamin C.

Fruit's soluble fiber is best avoided for this feeds the microbiome and increasing the potential endotoxic load, that is risky with leaky gut from low thyroid function.
I buy 5 liters of orange juice in an air-free juice tap, strain soluble fiber out of it, cook for 15m.

white grape juice with clear apple juice from concentrate without the pectin. Else cook 15m to breakdown pectin.

Avoid berries or dilute them, for their high content of flavonoids reduce the breakdown of hepatic estrogen.

 

[InChristAlone]

Just as an update it's been 7 weeks since I started on 0.5 mg cypro for severe anxiety and low appetite which all started as a result of chronic stress back in Dec. But it had gotten really bad when we got guinea pigs and I was having allergies from the hay. Interestingly the cypro is kinda crappy at stopping the itchy throat and ears but I definitely notice less allergic like reactions to the hay. I still have to minimize how much hay we feed. So during this time on cypro I realized whenever I got really into my health and ate only what was supposed to be good for me I crashed with adrenaline. When I let go just truly let go and eat whatever I want anxiety goes away my nervous system calms and I can generally live my life. And so my diet included things like chex mix, hot chocolate, shredded cheese, Gatorade, ice cream. Unfortunately I've now been having severe IBS episodes ever since starting the Chex mix and hot chocolate. I even stopped the Chex mix a week ago but was still doing the Swiss miss welp today I had a pretty bad episode so now I'm thinking it has too much lactose and I am intolerant to more fodmaps than I thought. Or the cypro causes worsening SIBO. Which I'm definitely not ruling out.

Other than that I've been doing pretty well. No major adrenaline rushes. And when they do come on I'm able to brush it off easier and not get stuck in a loop of fear, I really think serotonin causes that learned helplessness. But I really want to stop the IBS episodes that can last for two whole hours.

I'm considering getting a CGM to monitor for hypoglycemia reactions and figure this out for good. Using the finger prick tests are worthless. I should have did it a long time ago when I knew I had some blood sugar issues. It would tell me whether my anxiety is in my head or is it related to the lows.

 

[InChristAlone]

I have been eating greens a couple of meals a day with potatoes or rice. But what is enough? I think the minimum for a good effect on the gut is enough, that's it. I don't eat it to acquire a certain amount of nutrients.

Cellulose bind bile. https://www.researchgate.net/public..._acids_by_cellulose-based_cationic_adsorbents

As medium carrots and a portion of oat bran have about 2-3 grams of fiber, 1 or 2 portions of greens ~100 gr comes close to that.
You do not need much greens initially, you want to build up slowly. Choose the ones high in calcium low in fosfate: Collards, Beet greens, Kale, Chinese cabbage, Bok Choy, Organic spinach. link
Well cooked broccoli and Brussels sprouts contain high amounts of vitamin C.

Fruit's soluble fiber is best avoided for this feeds the microbiome and increasing the potential endotoxic load, that is risky with leaky gut from low thyroid function.
I buy 5 liters of orange juice in an air-free juice tap, strain soluble fiber out of it, cook for 15m.

white grape juice with clear apple juice from concentrate without the pectin. Else cook 15m to breakdown pectin.

Avoid berries or dilute them, for their high content of flavonoids reduce the breakdown of hepatic estrogen.

You're not concerned about oxalates? I don't think I have issues with oxalates as I've never had urinary or kidney problems even when I did green smoothies everyday but everyone is talking a out this issue lately.

I don't usually eat much fiber, just one banana a day, purple grape juice and then whatever is in the grains I eat that day. I will consider eating more greens!

 

[PeskyPeater]

No Im not concerned about oxalates for they bind to minerals in the gut before you absorb them systemically, unless you are very hypothyroid and experience leaky gut of course.

Seems Insoluble fiber does interact with bile acids, and cellulose has a relatively low binding capacity for bile acids though, but bind nonetheless.
Alas, I don't know which insoluble fiber does NOT scratch the intestinal walls like psyllium does.

Mechanisms of Interactions between Bile Acids and Plant Compounds—A Review

In the last decades, interactions of bile acids with samples rich in insoluble fibre were reported for a number of different feedstocks, including barley, oat, rice, wheat, soybean, lupin, and maize [31,71,72]. These interactions were mostly independent of viscosity and increased the dependence on bile acid hydrophobicity. The findings indicated that hydrophobic interactions of insoluble fibres with bile acids could be related to the fibre structures. This hypothesis was investigated/examined in a recent study focusing on cell-wall polysaccarides of lupin cotyledon and hull [73]. Fibres were isolated by proteolytic enzyme treatments followed by alcohol extraction. Purified fibres were sequentially extracted to separate pectin-like, hemicellulosic, and lignocellulosic structures. Bile acid interactions were investigated after in vitro digestion applying dialysis and kinetic analysis. In this study, none of the purified fibre fractions showed a significant molecular interaction with bile acids. Therefore, a major role of lupin cell-wall polysaccharides in molecular bile acid interaction was excluded. The results obtained for cellulose in this study are in line with previous in vitro results focusing on commercial cellulose preparations, which repeatedly conclude that cellulose provides low bile acid binding capacity [10,14,15,51].

 

[InChristAlone]

Been doing better overall yesterday I kinda had manic energy and cleaned for 4 hours. Now today I feel 'POTSy' was having the feeling like I had to lay down because my heart rate would get too high, well turns out my blood pressure is 98/66 pulse 89 after resting for about 30 mins. So when I do feel good I want to do things and maybe I overdo it and then pay for it the next day. I'm like oh I'll just push through it lol. That's when the need to lay down happens. I guess I just have to listen to my body better. When pulse gets to be 105 even when I sit down then that usually means I just need to rest and am relying too much on adrenaline to get things done. Feels good for a time until it doesn't.

 

[InChristAlone]

Allergies, allergies and more allergies​

So I went off the cypro a week ago and switched to 2mg famotidine because it felt like I had lowered everything a bit too much on the cypro and wanted to see how my baseline was doing. Welp, baseline is insane allergies. Took about 3-4 days before it came on. Itchy ears, horrible itchy scratchy sore throat. We are still feeding hay to the guinea pigs and I am 99% sure that's the cause of it. But last night I had a rib eye steak, didn't have much with it other than juice and I was so horribly wired and allergic last night I had to get up and take the cypro. Woke up and I'm still allergic. I think I'm opposite to all the men on this forum who say eat more red meat, get more choline. I am not a man, and I'm type A blood which supposedly do awful on heavy foods like red meat.

But before I stopped the cypro I had been doing really well, I was trialing no nightshades because it seemed like the days I got a lot like doing tacos or pizza then the more allergies I had. But now I don't even know what it is because I had zero nightshades yesterday and was horribly allergic. And I still do have this itchy buttcrack issue and was hoping maybe eliminating any food allergies would help that to go away, because it gets horribly inflamed and itchy sometimes and I don't know why. It got really inflamed and itchy while I was on vacation with my family and was getting lots of sunlight. I chalked that up to stress from being around family so much but the sunlight should have helped especially if it is in fact plaque psoriasis (it flakes and peels).

I'm already forgetting certain things that have necessitated trialing the no nightshades. I was trying to figure out what would cause what I call acid reflux attack, though I can't feel a lot of burning in my throat, I feel bad pain throughout my chest and stomach area, sometimes it feels like trapped gas and burping does help a bit. It happened a couple times in the last month. I kinda figured out it could be tomatoes, but then I was looking into nightshades and they can cause all manner of harm if you are sensitive. I have a thread on it. I really don't know anymore. My digestion took a bad turn in the last yr and I'm assuming a lot of my issue is digestion related. But nightshades can cause an inflamed digestive system so I thought at least doing a trial would help me figure it out. All I would need to do now is eat a meal of tomatoes and chili pepper (that's otherwise not too heavy as that can cause acid reflux as well). And then after that trial potatoes. Then if all that doesn't tell me anything, I guess it's not nightshades. Then I'm back to square one. I may have more than one food sensitivity due to my digestion.

I really keep coming back to how I healed these issues in the past, focusing on regulating my nervous system, using the cypro for 1.5 yrs to lower irrational fears and keep appetite steady. I didn't do much else with my diet, just ate whatever. But I'm older now and in a different environment with different parenting stressors and worries and now the hay allergies.

I am doing a vitamin C flush this morning it usually takes about 12 grams sometimes releasing whatever is in my bowels can really help, I underestimate how good it is, it was also part of my healing yrs ago, I didn't do the flushes a lot as they can be depleting but I would always feel better afterwards and the reason I started doing it was the lady who started the orthomolecular vitamin C group on Facebook was experiencing bad allergies and she noticed she needed A LOT of vitamin C to flush, so she flushed everyday using upwards of 50 grams a day, and then the allergies slowly improved and she needed less and less vitamin C to get the job done and now she lives a mostly normal healthy life using vitamins like niacinamide and she helps others do the same. I was more cautious with the flushing but I think it is very safe.

I heard that you can kinda gauge if you have narrowing small blood vessels by using the RDW number on a blood cell count and this last time mine was at the bottom end of the range 11.7 meaning my red blood cells are uniform in size and not flattened out by narrow blood vessels or produced distorted because of anemia or high inflammation. My husband as well, even though he has highish blood pressure (study of 156 people with high blood pressure, higher RDW was associated with an increased risk of plaque buildup in the arteries (atherosclerosis). We both have been using 2-4 grams of vitamin C for yrs. No idea why people vilify it on the forum other than a concern that it lowers copper. I want to get my copper and ceruloplasmin tested soon. Been eating some form of cocoa powder everyday for a couple months. Which honestly might not be the best idea with allergies as it's a histamine liberator.

Speaking of which, there's an interesting list of histamine liberators by this website: https://www.mastzellaktivierung.info/downloads/foodlist/21_FoodList_EN_alphabetic_withCateg.pdf

I marked down the ones relevant to most people:
Egg white- mast cell activating
Milk?
Blue cheese?
Organ Meats
Cured meat?
Sausage?
Salami?
Smoked meat?
Crab
Oysters
Clams
Shrimp
Seafood depending on freshness
Barley malt?
Sunflower seeds
Wheat germ
Hazelnut
Walnut
Avocado
Beans (pulses)-all types
Chili pepper
Horseradish
Onion except white onion is safe
Tomato
Citrus
Cocoa powder
Guava?
Kiwi
Mango?
Cantaloupe?
Pineapple
Strawberry
Cumin
Cilantro- only small amounts tolerated
Mustard
Yeast extract
Sourdough long fermentation times
MSG
Alcohol
Theobromine inhibits DAO enzyme
Gum arabic
Guar gum
Alginate
Red 40
Annatto
Benzoates
Blue 1?
Carob, and carob bean gum
Beta-Carotene
Carrageenan
Riboflavin-5-phosphate
Tartrazine
Sunset yellow
Potassium sorbate
Sulfur dioxide
Sodium sulfite
BHT
Locust bean gum
Folic acid
Iodine

I can verify that most of this list is accurate, not necessarily all the fruit as I do pretty well on some of those fruits, but citrus absolutely!! Tomatoes absolutely! Strawberries can cause mast cell activation for sure. Potatoes were only noted for the peel and if it's sprouting so I think for me potatoes are mostly safe. The yeast thing is hard to follow, I do notice more allergies when I eat bread. Other than that this is pretty easy to follow, just need to decide if I will eliminate cocoa. Also note those following the low vitamin A diet are decreasing most of the major histamine liberators other than beans and maybe some people aren't sensitive to beans. The list has to be tailored to your own sensitivities.

 

[InChristAlone]

TMI alert. Whenever I do a vitamin C flush it smells way worse than a normal bowel movement. Almost chemically. Ascorbic acid doesn't have any smell to it.

 

[InChristAlone]

So I took the cypro again last night and slept in the same spot not moving once for 9 hours straight! High histamine is absolutely terrible, overstimulated, anxious, not able to rest. Then when it finally gets lowered it's heavenly.

 

[youngsinatra]

So I took the cypro again last night and slept in the same spot not moving once for 9 hours straight! High histamine is absolutely terrible, overstimulated, anxious, not able to rest. Then when it finally gets lowered it's heavenly.

I‘d rather look into a more fundamental approach on how to fix the high histamine problem rather than to constantly rely on cypro.

Histamine is broken down by either DAO (Diamin Oxidase) or HNMT. (Histamine-N-Methyl-Transferase)
DAO is found in the gut and breaks down the histamine influx that comes from the food that you eat. DAO requires good levels of bioavailable copper.

HNMT break down histamine endogenously, that is released from mast cells or histamine promoting foods. (There is a difference between histamine containing and histamine liberating food)
HNMT requires proper methylation, which requires primarily animal protein (creatine, methionine), magnesium to convert methionine to active SAMe, optimal levels of B vitamins, but especially methylfolate and B12 to recycle homocysteine back to SAMe and glycine to buffer potentially excess methyl influx.

Do you have a good dietary food source for all those? I am thinking of folate, B12, copper and glycine especially.

Most people don‘t hit the questionable RDA for folate, especially if they don‘t consume any greens or legumes. B12 can be low due to gut impairment. Copper deficiency is also seen quite often in my experience when people actually getting tested for it. Glycine is hard to get unless you eat lots of beef, collagenous cuts or gelatin.

 

[InChristAlone]

I‘d rather look into a more fundamental approach on how to fix the high histamine problem rather than to constantly rely on cypro.

Histamine is broken down by either DAO (Diamin Oxidase) or HNMT. (Histamine-N-Methyl-Transferase)
DAO is found in the gut and breaks down the histamine influx that comes from the food that you eat. DAO requires good levels of bioavailable copper.

HNMT break down histamine endogenously, that is released from mast cells or histamine promoting foods. (There is a difference between histamine containing and histamine liberating food)
HNMT requires proper methylation, which requires primarily animal protein (creatine, methionine), magnesium to convert methionine to active SAMe, optimal levels of B vitamins, but especially methylfolate and B12 to recycle homocysteine back to SAMe and glycine to buffer potentially excess methyl influx.

Do you have a good dietary food source for all those? I am thinking of folate, B12, copper and glycine especially.

What helps inhaled allergies? The HNMT? I had severe oral, and nasal allergy symptoms the other night, was kinda afraid of swelling honestly. I had eaten a big rib eye steak that evening. But overall didn't consume enough calories in relation to that protein. Which is always a factor for me I have found. A meal of steak and lots of potatoes doesn't seem to have the same overstimulated effect. But my inhaled allergies only recently started so I don't have a good baseline because I was forced to use antihistamines.

In general I don't get a lot of folate because I don't eat greens or milk. Redsun told me folates can be very bad for the allergic person. He told me that in regards to my sister's daughter who has severe eczema.

I had been eating some form of cocoa everyday for a few months, but other than that no I don't have a good source of copper other than fruit juice. I'm still scared to try the copper supp until I get a test.

 

[youngsinatra]

What helps inhaled allergies? The HNMT? I had severe oral, and nasal allergy symptoms the other night, was kinda afraid of swelling honestly. I had eaten a big rib eye steak that evening. But overall didn't consume enough calories in relation to that protein. Which is always a factor for me I have found. A meal of steak and lots of potatoes doesn't seem to have the same overstimulated effect. But my inhaled allergies only recently started so I don't have a good baseline because I was forced to use antihistamines.

In general I don't get a lot of folate because I don't eat greens or milk. Redsun told me folates can be very bad for the allergic person. He told me that in regards to my sister's daughter who has severe eczema.

I had been eating some form of cocoa everyday for a few months, but other than that no I don't have a good source of copper other than fruit juice. I'm still scared to try the copper supp until I get a test.

Yeah, I‘d focus on HNMT / methylation for allergy control.

A friend of mine successfully controls his allergies during the seasons simply by taking 400-800mcg of methylfolate in a 1:1 ratio with methylcobalamin. It‘s probably best to go low and slow and titrate up. There a liquid forms of B9 and B12 that are more easily dosed in the wanted quantities.

Folate *deficiency* is definitely a bad thing for someone with allergies in my opinion as folate is required to recycle homocysteine (can think of it as a used up methyl group) back to SAMe (usable methyl group) in the methylation cycle.

Low methylation may also lead to lower norepinephrine/epinephrine levels, which are histamine antagonists. (Best example: Epi-Pen)
I know that you are sensitive to acetylcholine (parasympathetic dominance) and low epinephrine (poor sympathetic drive) might be a factor for that. Copper is also needed for norepinephrine etc.

 

[InChristAlone]

Yeah, I‘d focus on HNMT / methylation for allergy control.

A friend of mine successfully controls his allergies during the seasons simply by taking 400-800mcg of methylfolate in a 1:1 ratio with methylcobalamin. It‘s probably best to go low and slow and titrate up. There a liquid forms of B9 and B12 that are more easily dosed in the wanted quantities.

Folate *deficiency* is definitely a bad thing for someone with allergies in my opinion as folate is required to recycle homocysteine (can think of it as a used up methyl group) back to SAMe (usable methyl group) in the methylation cycle.

Low methylation may also lead to lower norepinephrine/epinephrine levels, which are histamine antagonists. (Best example: Epi-Pen)
I know that you are sensitive to acetylcholine (parasympathetic dominance) and low epinephrine (poor sympathetic drive) might be a factor for that. Copper is also needed for norepinephrine etc.

I bought folinic acid (not folic acid) when I read that it's the best used, do you think that would work? I had methylfolate many yrs ago but after reading about it more I was scared to take it, I think I took it once and experienced some really bad effects. As well as methylb12. I tried just one drop of that several months ago I had a feeling of depression the next day. This methylation stuff is seriously confusing! I'm assuming I have some awful imbalances and thus fixing them too quickly gives bad reactions. Cypro is like the ONLY substance I have ever taken other than vitamin C that reliably helps. I have to use topical mag too because anything irritating to the intestines is awful for me. I've been using mag oil for 3 yrs. Yeah I do think I'm parasympathetic dominant, I tend towards low BP. But with adrenaline surges for histamine control. The adrenaline surges go away on cypro.

 

[InChristAlone]

silenced.

 

[Peatness]

silenced.

I wrote a reply to your post but it looks like you removed it (your post). On well it's pointless posting my comment now.