OP
Twohandsondeck
Member
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2019
- Messages
- 809
@Blossom
The verses in question are:
Matthew 23:8-10
[8] But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
[9] And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
[10] Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
If I call a man my father, I am submitting myself to his authority on a matter, as is the responsibility of a father. Whatever he says, goes. The instruction of the father is what takes precedence.
Whenever a person is born again (in Christ), they are now a child of God which is instructed by their Father. After a person becomes a newborn in Christ, the Word of God becomes their Father.
Any father upon the earth is, by default, a man who is still in his trespasses and sins. He has not yet received the circumcision made without hands; the cutting away of the flesh, because he is still upon the earth.
Consider the following verses:
1 Corinthians 15:42-47
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
[45] And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
[46] Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
[47] The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
Ephesians 2:1-7
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
[3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
[4] But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
[7] That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
And again:
Colossians 2:11-13
[11] In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
[13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
The person who has been quickened together with Christ has ("hath") already been raised up and made to sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, right that very second of receiving salvation/being born again. It's already a done deal.
Because the believer is still in the flesh, the works of the flesh are then made manifest (Galatians chapter 5) and from then on a battle between the Spirit and the lust of the flesh (Ephesians 6:12) will continue. The believer may prevail in this war by taking instruction from the Father (Word of God), but not any father.
+ I'd like to add another point to this one, which is what it means to "call" someone.
In the Webster's 1828 dictionary, the first line of the entry for "call" is:
CALL, verb transitive [Heb. To hold or restrain.] In a general sense, to drive; to strain or force out sound.
In Hebrew, it's to "hold or restrain." If I call an earthen man my father, I am holding or restraining him as my father. How might it be possible for me to hold or restrain two men as my father simultaneously? It cannot be done. Or how might I elevate the instruction of my earthen father to be greater than the instruction given by my heavenly Father? Alas, all men only have one father. They who are born of the flesh have a father and they who are born of the Spirit have the Father.
And the second portion of the definition: "to drive, to strain, or force out sound." - If I drive, strain, or force out sound of my fleshly father, what might he say? Ultimately, corruptible lies. As it is printed above in this thread, "...let God be true and every man a liar." (Romans 3:4)
It is only the Father Who I ought to bother attempting to drive, strain, or force sound out of... that in doing so, I may yet learn.
Matthew 11:28-29
[28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
__________________________________________
James 3:1
[1] My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
Firstly, James is writing to the 12 tribes of Israel in the latter days -
James 1:1
[1] James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
These are the remnant who are responsible for preaching during the last time. They have a weighty responsibility to bring the gospel to the ends of the earth despite the reign of the antichrist.
Secondly, the verse doesn't say, 'be you not many masters' nor does it say, 'be we not many masters' or even, 'be ye not many masters...'
It simply says "...be not many masters."
The context of the chapter then goes on to warn against keeping the tongue in check. The tongue can be a small flame which causes a massive fire, therefore it is warned to be not many masters. In the book of James, the phrase, "double minded" is used (James 1:8, James 4:8).
If someone told me to be not many masters, what might the opposite of that be? Perhaps it would be to be one master, hence:
Matthew 23:10
[10] Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
James 3:1-10
[1] My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
[2] For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
[3] Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
[4] Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
[5] Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
[6] And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
[7] For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
[8] But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
[9] Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
[10] Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
Lastly, consider:
Matthew 6:24
[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
______________________________________________________
Ephesians 4:11
[11] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
None of these titles conflict with Matthew 23:8-10.
______________________________________________________
John 4:12-14
[12] Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
[13] Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
[14] But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
The Samarian woman simply asked Christ if He is greater than her father Jacob. Of course He is. No conflict here.
______________________________________________________
Similar to the book of James, the context of the epistles of 1, 2, and 3 John is that they are written to a remnant during the "last time:" The rules of salvation during this time are different than they are in present day...
1 John 2:18
[18] Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
The significance of this is that the sealed remnant during this time cannot sin. This is not how things are in this present day:
1 John 4:6-10
[6] Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
[7] Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[10] In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Zephaniah 3:13
[13] The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.
Now, the verse in question is:
1 John 2:12-14
[12] I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
[13] I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
[14] I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
Earlier in 1 John 2, it is said that keeping the commandments of God = knowing God.
1 John 2: 1-6
[1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[6] He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Next,
1 John 2:7
[7] Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
So then, those who keep the word which has been heard from the beginning are addressed as "fathers," even the sinless emulators of the Father which exist during "the last time."
Of added relevance, there are indeed devils (ex. Luke 11:15) and the Devil (Revelation 12:9).
As a final point, the only time that God commands people to be like Him is in books addressed to the Jewish people, either before or after our current time period of the dispensation of grace. If a person is
1 Peter 1:15-16
[15] But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
[16] Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Leviticus 11:44
[44] For I am the Lord your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Leviticus 19:2
[2] Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the Lord your God am holy.
1 John 4:15-17
[15] Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
[16] And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
[17] Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
________________________________________________
1 Corinthians 4:14-15
[14] I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
[15] For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
Once again the message is written that there are "not many" fathers, the opposite being 'only one' Father.
Paul makes it clear that the child of God has been begotten 1) in Christ Jesus and 2) through the gospel. Paul's begetting of someone through the gospel is his labour in the Word.
Webster's 1828 entry for Begotten -
BEGOT', BEGOT'TEN, participle passive of get. Procreated; generated.
Finally, consider:
1 Corinthians 3:6-8
[6] I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
[7] So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
[8] Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
The verses in question are:
Matthew 23:8-10
[8] But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
[9] And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
[10] Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
If I call a man my father, I am submitting myself to his authority on a matter, as is the responsibility of a father. Whatever he says, goes. The instruction of the father is what takes precedence.
Whenever a person is born again (in Christ), they are now a child of God which is instructed by their Father. After a person becomes a newborn in Christ, the Word of God becomes their Father.
Any father upon the earth is, by default, a man who is still in his trespasses and sins. He has not yet received the circumcision made without hands; the cutting away of the flesh, because he is still upon the earth.
Consider the following verses:
1 Corinthians 15:42-47
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
[45] And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
[46] Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
[47] The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
Ephesians 2:1-7
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
[3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
[4] But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
[7] That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
And again:
Colossians 2:11-13
[11] In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
[13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
The person who has been quickened together with Christ has ("hath") already been raised up and made to sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, right that very second of receiving salvation/being born again. It's already a done deal.
Because the believer is still in the flesh, the works of the flesh are then made manifest (Galatians chapter 5) and from then on a battle between the Spirit and the lust of the flesh (Ephesians 6:12) will continue. The believer may prevail in this war by taking instruction from the Father (Word of God), but not any father.
+ I'd like to add another point to this one, which is what it means to "call" someone.
In the Webster's 1828 dictionary, the first line of the entry for "call" is:
CALL, verb transitive [Heb. To hold or restrain.] In a general sense, to drive; to strain or force out sound.
In Hebrew, it's to "hold or restrain." If I call an earthen man my father, I am holding or restraining him as my father. How might it be possible for me to hold or restrain two men as my father simultaneously? It cannot be done. Or how might I elevate the instruction of my earthen father to be greater than the instruction given by my heavenly Father? Alas, all men only have one father. They who are born of the flesh have a father and they who are born of the Spirit have the Father.
And the second portion of the definition: "to drive, to strain, or force out sound." - If I drive, strain, or force out sound of my fleshly father, what might he say? Ultimately, corruptible lies. As it is printed above in this thread, "...let God be true and every man a liar." (Romans 3:4)
It is only the Father Who I ought to bother attempting to drive, strain, or force sound out of... that in doing so, I may yet learn.
Matthew 11:28-29
[28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
__________________________________________
James 3:1
[1] My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
Firstly, James is writing to the 12 tribes of Israel in the latter days -
James 1:1
[1] James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
These are the remnant who are responsible for preaching during the last time. They have a weighty responsibility to bring the gospel to the ends of the earth despite the reign of the antichrist.
Secondly, the verse doesn't say, 'be you not many masters' nor does it say, 'be we not many masters' or even, 'be ye not many masters...'
It simply says "...be not many masters."
The context of the chapter then goes on to warn against keeping the tongue in check. The tongue can be a small flame which causes a massive fire, therefore it is warned to be not many masters. In the book of James, the phrase, "double minded" is used (James 1:8, James 4:8).
If someone told me to be not many masters, what might the opposite of that be? Perhaps it would be to be one master, hence:
Matthew 23:10
[10] Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
James 3:1-10
[1] My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
[2] For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
[3] Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
[4] Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
[5] Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
[6] And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
[7] For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
[8] But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
[9] Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
[10] Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
Lastly, consider:
Matthew 6:24
[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
______________________________________________________
Ephesians 4:11
[11] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
None of these titles conflict with Matthew 23:8-10.
______________________________________________________
John 4:12-14
[12] Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
[13] Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
[14] But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
The Samarian woman simply asked Christ if He is greater than her father Jacob. Of course He is. No conflict here.
______________________________________________________
Similar to the book of James, the context of the epistles of 1, 2, and 3 John is that they are written to a remnant during the "last time:" The rules of salvation during this time are different than they are in present day...
1 John 2:18
[18] Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
The significance of this is that the sealed remnant during this time cannot sin. This is not how things are in this present day:
1 John 4:6-10
[6] Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
[7] Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[10] In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Zephaniah 3:13
[13] The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.
Now, the verse in question is:
1 John 2:12-14
[12] I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
[13] I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
[14] I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
Earlier in 1 John 2, it is said that keeping the commandments of God = knowing God.
1 John 2: 1-6
[1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[6] He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Next,
1 John 2:7
[7] Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
So then, those who keep the word which has been heard from the beginning are addressed as "fathers," even the sinless emulators of the Father which exist during "the last time."
Of added relevance, there are indeed devils (ex. Luke 11:15) and the Devil (Revelation 12:9).
As a final point, the only time that God commands people to be like Him is in books addressed to the Jewish people, either before or after our current time period of the dispensation of grace. If a person is
1 Peter 1:15-16
[15] But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
[16] Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Leviticus 11:44
[44] For I am the Lord your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Leviticus 19:2
[2] Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the Lord your God am holy.
1 John 4:15-17
[15] Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
[16] And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
[17] Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
________________________________________________
1 Corinthians 4:14-15
[14] I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
[15] For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
Once again the message is written that there are "not many" fathers, the opposite being 'only one' Father.
Paul makes it clear that the child of God has been begotten 1) in Christ Jesus and 2) through the gospel. Paul's begetting of someone through the gospel is his labour in the Word.
Webster's 1828 entry for Begotten -
BEGOT', BEGOT'TEN, participle passive of get. Procreated; generated.
Finally, consider:
1 Corinthians 3:6-8
[6] I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
[7] So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
[8] Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
