Dopamine agonists can treat anhedonia

haidut

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The title may sound obvious to many, but this study is one of the few to bring up the taboo topic of serotonin's role in symptoms of depression. The current dogma still holds that raising serotonin levels (or activating its receptors) is the most beneficial mechanism to treating depression and all of its symptoms, of which anhenodia is a major one. In addition, while medicine admits that chronic stress has a role in depression, current dogma insists that stress by itself is not a direct cause depression. Now, after decades of serotonergis drugs (e.g. SSRI usage) medicine is starting to realize that the SSRI drugs are no better than placebo when it comes to treating depression, and in fact often make some symptoms (e.g. anhedonia) worse or even induce them anew. The study below demonstrates that activating the dopamine receptors, and more specifically the D2 receptor, was highly effective in relieving stress-induced anhedonia while activation of the serotonin receptors was not. Perhaps just as importantly, the study demonstrated that raising dopamine or administering dopamine agonists had a beneficial effect on another common symptom of chronic stress and depression - i.e. enlarged adrenal glands (a proxy for elevated cortisol). Namely, the pro-dopamine interventions restored the adrenal glands back to normal size seen in unstressed animals. The latter effect has already been corroborated by older studies demonstrating successful remission/cure of Cushing disease/syndrome with administration of dopamine agonist drugs such as bromocriptine, cabergoline, pramipexole, etc.

Effects of dopamine modulation on chronic stress-induced deficits in reward learning - Cognitive, Affective, & Behavioral Neuroscience
Dopamine modulation could help to treat stress-induced anhedonia

"..."There are very few effective remedies for anhedonia, which is a debilitating condition that involves deficient motivation to pursue rewarding activities," Steven J. Lamontagne, Ph.D., one of the researchers who carried out the study, told Medical Xpress. "Current first-line drug treatments for depression target the serotonin system, but these are largely ineffective in treating anhedonia." The main objective of the recent work by Lamontagne and his colleagues was to examine the effects of dopamine modulation on stress-induced motivational deficits in an animal model, specifically on rodents. Their new study was inspired by one of their previous papers, where they tested rodents on a probabilistic reward task and found that chronic stress impaired their reward learning, while amphetamine, which potentiates dopamine transmission, improved it. "A logical hypothesis derived from this finding was that we could rescue stress-induced reward dysfunction by enhancing dopamine signaling, but that hadn't been empirically tested," Lamontagne explained. "In our recent work, we completed two major projects to address this question." In their experiments, Lamontagne and his colleagues exposed 48 male rats to stressful stimuli for a period of three weeks. Subsequently, they treated half of them using systemic, low-dose injections of the drug Amisulpride, which is known to increase dopamine transmission. The other half was treated using micro-infusions of Quinpirole, a chemical that acts as a selective D2-like receptor agonist, into either the nucleus accumbens or the medial prefrontal cortex, two brain regions known to be associated with motivation and goal-directed behavior."

"To determine whether dopamine modulation differentially affects reward learning based on susceptibility to stress, we measured adrenal gland weights as a proxy for stress reactivity," Lamontagne said. "Using immunohistochemistry, we measured D2 receptor expression in the mesolimbic and mesocortical pathways to shed light on stress-related changes at a receptor level." In their experiments, the researchers gathered interesting results. Most notably, they found that the modulation of dopamine repaired motivational deficits elicited by stress. In addition, the most stress-reactive rats (i.e., those who appeared to have been most adversely affected by the 3-week stress-inducing period) had the best response to the treatment. "We found higher mesolimbic D2 receptor expression in rats with high stress reactivity, suggesting differences in D2 receptor sensitivity could underlie these effects," Lamontagne said. "Overall, our findings suggest that the dopaminergic system, particularly mesolimbic D2-like receptors, could be critical targets for drug interventions in the treatment of reward-related dysfunction."
 

Tyrone

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@haidut what is your preferred dopamine agonist for regular people who want a boost in motivation. I use phenibut twice a week when I feel stressed and it works wonders.
 

swarrior

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according to my personal investigation (im curious about neurotransmitters, biology and other things).

There is not danger if you try to increase dopamine with the supplement way ?
With a long term use of supplements we can get a downregulate receptors no?

Thanks
 

Makrosky

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according to my personal investigation (im curious about neurotransmitters, biology and other things).

There is not danger if you try to increase dopamine with the supplement way ?
With a long term use of supplements we can get a downregulate receptors no?

Thanks
There always is. And happens often. Acting directly on receptors will mostly always cause up/down regulation. Withdrawal symptoms. Etc.

Even with indirect ways. It is a quite tricky thing.

If someone knows, please share it, but I haven't found one yet.

One thing that work wonders to rebalance dopaminergic system is avoiding completely porn, social media, netflix, computer screens in general. Difficult to apply these days but it works.

Sun and good human relationships work wonders as well. It is much easier to engage in rewarding activities if you are with other people.

Setting small, meaningful goals, help also. The meaningful part is very important. If you set a list of "todo" tasks that doesn't count. Has to be really meaningful for you, whatever it might be. If exercising is not meaningul for you setting goals of "lifting weights 3 times a week" won't work.

And takes time, short route is taking mucuna pruriens or adamantine or similar but those cause downregulation for many people.
 
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There always is. And happens often. Acting directly on receptors will mostly always cause up/down regulation. Withdrawal symptoms. Etc.

Even with indirect ways. It is a quite tricky thing.

If someone knows, please share it, but I haven't found one yet.

One thing that work wonders to rebalance dopaminergic system is avoiding completely porn, social media, netflix, computer screens in general. Difficult to apply these days but it works.

Sun and good human relationships work wonders as well. It is much easier to engage in rewarding activities if you are with other people.

Setting small, meaningful goals, help also. The meaningful part is very important. If you set a list of "todo" tasks that doesn't count. Has to be really meaningful for you, whatever it might be. If exercising is not meaningul for you setting goals of "lifting weights 3 times a week" won't work.

And takes time, short route is taking mucuna pruriens or adamantine or similar but those cause downregulation for many people.
The solution is to increase brain energy so your brain can actually use that ATP into producing more dopamine. In this case B1 and B3 is beneficial with a big meal of carbs. Everytime I feel down, I know that I am into a catabolic state and eating carbs improves a lot the symptoms. Sometimes even if you don't feel directly the stress, your body could be in stress mode. Even small things, like getting angry of waiting the bus or getting tired while walking could be a good sign of stress.
 

Daft

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Was recently looking into this (amphetamines) and found studies finding adderall and/or ritalin successfully treat depression, by increasing adrenaline and dopamine. Odd you never hear about it for depression, but hopefully it will become more common treatment, being much safer than SSRI's and Tricyclics.
 

Epik

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Is there any reason why I get digestive issues when taking D2 agonists? Is it a sign of a deficiency or some kind of imbalance? It definitely works, but the side effects are frustrating
 

invictus

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The solution is to increase brain energy so your brain can actually use that ATP into producing more dopamine. In this case B1 and B3 is beneficial with a big meal of carbs. Everytime I feel down, I know that I am into a catabolic state and eating carbs improves a lot the symptoms. Sometimes even if you don't feel directly the stress, your body could be in stress mode. Even small things, like getting angry of waiting the bus or getting tired while walking could be a good sign of stress.
Anhedonia is a long standing problem for me. I know sugar raises dopamine. I find my morning tea with 4 to 5 tablespoons of sugar boosts my mood and energy within a couple of hours. When I've used supplements(DHEA, magnesium) or prescribed pharmaceuticals(Buspar, carbergoline) I went over the top, becoming hypomanic, irritable and trashing my sleep. Seems like I just need mild stimulation of the dopamine receptors. I understand we're talking about a specific receptor, not a broad spectrum approach. I've had many conversations about this with my psychiatrist but given my poor response to many psych drugs, I always resist medication. How about selegiline or Haidut's analog?
 

invictus

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Was recently looking into this (amphetamines) and found studies finding adderall and/or ritalin successfully treat depression, by increasing adrenaline and dopamine. Odd you never hear about it for depression, but hopefully it will become more common treatment, being much safer than SSRI's and Tricyclics.
Three years ago, went to a local psychiatrist who had been a researcher at Emory. He wanted to prescribe Adderall for my chronic low grade depression/anhedonia. I was seriously afraid to take it since I have treatment resistant bipolar and Tourette's Syndrome. Didn't want to find myself in a crisis situation and on my way to the ER. Perhaps I should have trusted his judgement but I've been down the road with psych meds that produced serious side effects.
 

golder

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I’m hoping @haidut releases Cinanserin soon. I’ve wanted to try this for years for antagonising seratonin, which will be one of the several vectors in loosening the grip of anhedonia.
 
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Anhedonia is a long standing problem for me. I know sugar raises dopamine. I find my morning tea with 4 to 5 tablespoons of sugar boosts my mood and energy within a couple of hours. When I've used supplements(DHEA, magnesium) or prescribed pharmaceuticals(Buspar, carbergoline) I went over the top, becoming hypomanic, irritable and trashing my sleep. Seems like I just need mild stimulation of the dopamine receptors. I understand we're talking about a specific receptor, not a broad spectrum approach. I've had many conversations about this with my psychiatrist but given my poor response to many psych drugs, I always resist medication. How about selegiline or Haidut's analog?
I wouldn't take supplements for anhedonia, or in extreme cases only anti serotonin drugs, not drugs that increase dopamine directly because it gets downregulated.
Probably you are overstimulated. I strongly believe entertainment is making us sick. From time to time is ok. Everyday will make you feel like crap, your dopamine receptors will not be sensitive anymore and you will not feel the joy of life.
 

dukesbobby777

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I’m hoping @haidut releases Cinanserin soon. I’ve wanted to try this for years for antagonising seratonin, which will be one of the several vectors in loosening the grip of anhedonia.

What makes it different from the other serotonin antagonists he's released though? Does it boost dopamine more than the others? Is it a stronger anti-serotonin drug to cyproheptadine? I don't see anything that particularly interesting about it on paper, unless I'm missing something..
 

InChristAlone

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Was recently looking into this (amphetamines) and found studies finding adderall and/or ritalin successfully treat depression, by increasing adrenaline and dopamine. Odd you never hear about it for depression, but hopefully it will become more common treatment, being much safer than SSRI's and Tricyclics.
Why would increasing adrenaline be a good thing? I mean we already do that in our society multiple times a day.
 

invictus

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I wouldn't take supplements for anhedonia, or in extreme cases only anti serotonin drugs, not drugs that increase dopamine directly because it gets downregulated.
Probably you are overstimulated. I strongly believe entertainment is making us sick. From time to time is ok. Everyday will make you feel like crap, your dopamine receptors will not be sensitive anymore and you will not feel the joy of life.
Perhaps. Just dealing with massive uremitting stress and needed to down regulate. Sugar helps, more than any supplement or pharmaceutical.
 

Daft

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Why would increasing adrenaline be a good thing? I mean we already do that in our society multiple times a day.
Hmm, perhaps it helps ADHD by dopamine but adrenaline goes up too a bit. Just like coffee increases it. Proper adrenaline enhances learning and encoding memories.
 
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