Fish antibiotics

[mostlylurking]

Thank you for sharing! I am not keen on antibiotics but I feel at a loss. I’ve been having horrible gut issues for over 3 years now. Healed my erosive gastritis. I’m definitely hypothyroid and am still healing from all the crazy diets of keto and fasting. So stressful! So I’m sure it will take time I just feel stuck. I get nauseous often and have skin rash, gut cramping and constipation. Glad you shared your experience through! It’s appreciated

I spent years with leaky gut and all that goes with that. I got well (finally) when I got my hypothyroidism properly addressed which included optimizing my thyroid medication (natural desiccated thyroid, 150mg) and cleaning up my diet per the guidance of Dr. Ray Peat. For a time frame, I got on some genuine viable natural desiccated thyroid March of 2015, the medication was increased over a period of 9 months with the help of my endocrinologist who did thyroid blood tests on me about every 6 weeks; he slowly stair-stepped my medication up to the dose that I needed. My gut issues resolved themselves during that time.

If you are hypothyroid your body cannot repair itself. If you address the hypothyroidism correctly your body will heal, including your gut.

I do not take probiotics, I think all that is a bunch of hokum. My goal is to knock the bacteria back daily using well cooked mushrooms (used to use carrot salad, switched to mushrooms last fall at the suggestion of Dr. Peat).

The mushrooms (and the raw carrot) contain a mild antibiotic; they help to remove the opportunistic virulent bacteria that moved in to live on the gut lining. This opens up the area for less virulent strains of bacteria to move in. Apparently, the worst, most virulent bacteria recovers first when everything has been wiped out by pharmaceutical antibiotics and then they proliferate first, taking up the most delicate real estate. It's helpful to knock them back with some raw carrot or some cooked mushrooms DAILY. Then the bacterial mix has a better chance to normalize. Nuking the gut with antibiotics can set you up for a more difficult situation.

Lactic acid and lacto-bacillus are not good for you. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Lactic acid begets more lactic acid, then suddenly you've got an inflammation problem from the lactic acid build up in your body.

I got into serious trouble last fall from the antibiotics for the bladder infection. My gut was damaged. I couldn't absorb micro nutrients like thiamine and magnesium. You need thiamine and magnesium to heal the gut. So I increased the amount of these two things. And I ate a LOT of cooked mushrooms. I have finally pretty much recovered; it's taken 3 months of concerted effort.

I hope you find this helpful.

 

[CreakyJoints]

I think you could categorize them both as lactic-acid-producing species, which are the least harmful. There are flora out there that produce really nasty substances, those that metabolize amino acids. Peat always stresses transit time because the longer the bacteria have to eat your own undigested food, the more they will poison you. It's less of an issue with lactic acid species.

Unconfirmed: the lactic acid species compete with the amino acid species. The enemy of your enemy is your friend. Someone check that, please.

Just to get this out of the way: gut sterility is a cool concept for its implications but totally unfeasible. The small intestine should be mostly sterile but good luck cleaning out the colon.

Kefir is a combination of bacteria and yeast and sort of in its own category. I don't claim to understand how exactly it works, only that it has a long track record of promoting health and it's worked for me and others @Jib

Have you been following Amazoniac at all since you've been here? He's got a great summary of John Harvey Kellog's book Autointoxication -- worth a read.

It's not entirely Peatish, though dude loves milk and fruit, but there's this:

"Carrots may be advantageously used in a regimen that has for its purpose the changing of intestinal flora."

Thank you! Yes, I was a fan of Amazoniac's posts even before I made an account, there's an awful lot to read - I'm making my way through everything slowly. I appreciate you drawing my attention to this.

I'm a bit thrown by these conclusions on lactic acid, so it is sort of a lesser-of-many-evils situation in terms of bacterial cultures, and potentially having some of those can mitigate putrefaction caused by other, potentially more harmful, gut bacteria? I was sort of under the impression Ray Peat was trying to draw attention to problems arising from excess lactic acid in a newsletter not that long ago - perhaps I missed his point entirely.

I'm very much a novice when it comes to physiology at all, it's very new to me. I'll have to go through Amazoniac's summary a few times and maybe try to get a hold of the text myself to see what I can glean from it.

Thanks once again, and sorry for sort of derailing the thread a little bit!

 

[cjm]

I was sort of under the impression Ray Peat was trying to draw attention to problems arising from excess lactic acid in a newsletter not that long ago - perhaps I missed his point entirely.

No, you're right, it's confusing! Peat is trying to detail optimal functioning and doesn't make many compromises to that. I suppose there are levels to his reasoning: CO2 is the chief boss magician doctor nurse and lactic acid opposes it, though lactic acid presumably opposes putrefaction in the gut.

 

[TheBeard]

Interesting. Hadn't heard that but I usually hear those things second-hand.

It's an antibiotic dose, yes, but I assume the respiratory effects are still happening at a higher intensity -- I was trying to maximize those without getting "die-off" symptoms or whatever happens when you nuke the gut, which I've done several times. I kind of just settled on 200mg and paid attention to progress. I'm trying to stretch and revive muscles that have seemingly gone offline. But also I have terrible breath, "death breath" my girlfriend calls it. So I have an eye on that.

The breath came from antibiotics use or you had it before?

 

[cjm]

The breath came from antibiotics use or you had it before?

Had it since I can remember. Seeing if it goes away with the use.

 

[TheBeard]

Had it since I can remember. Seeing if it goes away with the use.

Mine left when I stopped ingesting any kind of fiber or starch.

 

[cjm]

You need thiamine and magnesium to heal the gut.

+1 (pure powder b1 hcl + mag bicarb water)

And avoid the heck out of excipients while you're at it.

 

[cjm]

Mine left when I stopped ingesting any kind of fiber or starch.

Nice. Something I've never tried. I can't bring myself to eliminate bread but I have started buying unenriched Spelt loaves from a local farm. Iron, as in enriched flour, is implicated in pathogenic bacteria and nasty smells.

 

[Darleen]

I spent years with leaky gut and all that goes with that. I got well (finally) when I got my hypothyroidism properly addressed which included optimizing my thyroid medication (natural desiccated thyroid, 150mg) and cleaning up my diet per the guidance of Dr. Ray Peat. For a time frame, I got on some genuine viable natural desiccated thyroid March of 2015, the medication was increased over a period of 9 months with the help of my endocrinologist who did thyroid blood tests on me about every 6 weeks; he slowly stair-stepped my medication up to the dose that I needed. My gut issues resolved themselves during that time.

If you are hypothyroid your body cannot repair itself. If you address the hypothyroidism correctly your body will heal, including your gut.

I do not take probiotics, I think all that is a bunch of hokum. My goal is to knock the bacteria back daily using well cooked mushrooms (used to use carrot salad, switched to mushrooms last fall at the suggestion of Dr. Peat).

The mushrooms (and the raw carrot) contain a mild antibiotic; they help to remove the opportunistic virulent bacteria that moved in to live on the gut lining. This opens up the area for less virulent strains of bacteria to move in. Apparently, the worst, most virulent bacteria recovers first when everything has been wiped out by pharmaceutical antibiotics and then they proliferate first, taking up the most delicate real estate. It's helpful to knock them back with some raw carrot or some cooked mushrooms DAILY. Then the bacterial mix has a better chance to normalize. Nuking the gut with antibiotics can set you up for a more difficult situation.

Lactic acid and lacto-bacillus are not good for you. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Lactic acid begets more lactic acid, then suddenly you've got an inflammation problem from the lactic acid build up in your body.

I got into serious trouble last fall from the antibiotics for the bladder infection. My gut was damaged. I couldn't absorb micro nutrients like thiamine and magnesium. You need thiamine and magnesium to heal the gut. So I increased the amount of these two things. And I ate a LOT of cooked mushrooms. I have finally pretty much recovered; it's taken 3 months of concerted effort.

I hope you find this helpful.

Definitely helpful. I am going to start my thyroid med back up. I take thiamine and magnesium bicarb. I’m seeing a big help with niacinamide as far as sleep (helping with hypoglycemia) the carrot salad seems to make me more bloated so funny enough I just added the button mushrooms to my grocery list this week and will give those a good amount of time. Thank you very much for your reply. Thiamine by the way, saved me. I had gastroparesis (not tested but GI doc suspected it caused the gastritis) and when I asked him what caused the gastroparesis he said diabetes and hypothyroid. Well thiamine sure does play a part. The first day I had taken it, my stomach started finally making noises and I gained a bit of an appetite. Truly amazing. I hear you on the lactic acid. I was thinking of treating haiduts’ pyrucet for helping good bacteria on its own (butyrate) I’ll keep pushing through with all peaty things. It steer away from antibiotics for now. I don’t need to make this gut worse and in the end I’d still be left with low metabolic function so will focus on boosting that.

 

[Darleen]

+1 (pure powder b1 hcl + mag bicarb water)

And avoid the heck out of excipients while you're at it.

I have Been taking Thiamax and still take thiamine hcl, although I don’t find it as affective as the fat soluble Such as Thiamax. Thiamine saved me from gastroparesis symptoms. (Not diagnosed) And just recently started make magnesium bicarbonate again.

 

[cjm]

And just recently started make magnesium bicarbonate again.

Nice! I push this on folks whenever I can. It's a no brainer. Or at least good practice. The bicarb water is so stinkin' easy to make and darn cheap.

 

[Darleen]

Thank you! Yes, I was a fan of Amazoniac's posts even before I made an account, there's an awful lot to read - I'm making my way through everything slowly. I appreciate you drawing my attention to this.

I'm a bit thrown by these conclusions on lactic acid, so it is sort of a lesser-of-many-evils situation in terms of bacterial cultures, and potentially having some of those can mitigate putrefaction caused by other, potentially more harmful, gut bacteria? I was sort of under the impression Ray Peat was trying to draw attention to problems arising from excess lactic acid in a newsletter not that long ago - perhaps I missed his point entirely.

I'm very much a novice when it comes to physiology at all, it's very new to me. I'll have to go through Amazoniac's summary a few times and maybe try to get a hold of the text myself to see what I can glean from it.

Thanks once again, and sorry for sort of derailing the thread a little bit!

I know you don't like probiotics, but in case you haven't tried spore-based priobiotics it might be something to research and consider. I give the first one a lot of credit for calming my gut down.

9 Promising Health Benefits of Bacillus coagulans - SelfHacked

B. coagulans is being researched for cholesterol, IBS, arthritis, and muscle recovery. Read on to learn about this promising probiotic.

selfhacked.com

5+ Promising Potential Benefits of the Probiotic B. subtilis - SelfHacked

Probiotics containing B. subtilis have produced promising results in constipation and H. pylori infections. What else could they help with?

selfhacked.com

Thanks so much will look into them more :)

 

[Darleen]

Nice! I push this on folks whenever I can. It's a no brainer. Or at least good practice. The bicarb water is so stinkin' easy to make and darn cheap.

It sure is. Quick question, I was thinking about adding it to my water that I use to brew coffee. Do you think that would be ok? I find it hard to get it in as it’s fairly alkaline and my gut has a terrible time (I need hcl right now after all the proton pump inhibitors and ant acids I used for gastritis) over explaining lol but basically I try to not inhibit my own hcl with anything too alkaline so thought coffee would be good to add to since it’s more acidic.

 

[Darleen]

Thank you! Yes, I was a fan of Amazoniac's posts even before I made an account, there's an awful lot to read - I'm making my way through everything slowly. I appreciate you drawing my attention to this.

I'm a bit thrown by these conclusions on lactic acid, so it is sort of a lesser-of-many-evils situation in terms of bacterial cultures, and potentially having some of those can mitigate putrefaction caused by other, potentially more harmful, gut bacteria? I was sort of under the impression Ray Peat was trying to draw attention to problems arising from excess lactic acid in a newsletter not that long ago - perhaps I missed his point entirely.

I'm very much a novice when it comes to physiology at all, it's very new to me. I'll have to go through Amazoniac's summary a few times and maybe try to get a hold of the text myself to see what I can glean from it.

Thanks once again, and sorry for sort of derailing the thread a little bit!

No worries about derailing. Helps me and I’m sure others learn :)

 

[cjm]

It sure is. Quick question, I was thinking about adding it to my water that I use to dew coffee. Do you think that would be ok? I find it hard to get it in as it’s fairly alkaline and my gut has a terrible time (I need hcl right now after all the proton pump inhibitors and ant acids I used for gastritis) over explaining lol but basically I try to not inhibit my own hcl with anything too alkaline so thought coffee would be good to add to since it’s more acidic.

Worth a shot! People add eggshells to coffee grinds when they brew to reduce the acidity. Brewing with bicarb is in that vein. The taste might be strange? I LOVE the chalkiness of the bicarb water on its own.

 

[Darleen]

Had it since I can remember. Seeing if it goes away with the use.

I too have bad breath regardless of excellent dental hygiene. I wake up with it and have had it since I was very young.

 

[Darleen]

Worth a shot! People add eggshells to coffee grinds when they brew to reduce the acidity. Brewing with bicarb is in that vein. The taste might be strange? I LOVE the chalkiness of the bicarb water on its own.

Cool, I’ll do that. Egg shells in the brew sound like a descent idea as well thanks!

 

[mostlylurking]

+1 (pure powder b1 hcl + mag bicarb water)

And avoid the heck out of excipients while you're at it.

yep.

I'm using Bulk Supplements' pure powders (no excipients), thiamine hcl and magnesium glycinate.

 

[Darleen]

yep.

I'm using Bulk Supplements' pure powders (no excipients), thiamine hcl and magnesium glycinate.

How much thiamine hcl do you typically take per day?

 

[Darleen]

Worth a shot! People add eggshells to coffee grinds when they brew to reduce the acidity. Brewing with bicarb is in that vein. The taste might be strange? I LOVE the chalkiness of the bicarb water on its own.

Mine doesn’t come out too chalky tasting. I make mine with @ 2cups of carbonated water and 1/2 tsp mag hydroxide. Does that sound right?