Getting Ripped With Dr Peat

[superhuman]

222g protein, 133g carbs, 35g fat
So yeah almost low carb. This is working in terms of getting my leaner

I'm afraid this calorie-restricted diet is likely to result in a loss of your lean body mass, which includes your muscles, bones or organs, while your metabolism also drops.

Can you tell me this: What is your percentage body fat (BF%)? What is your total weight (TW)?

From this, we can tell what your lean body mass (LBM) is. Because LBM equals TW minus (TW times BF%). It's important that your LBM stays the same or increases, while your BF% decreases.

Im around 10% bodyfat now.

Im 180 cm height so thats 5 11 i think.

Ive maintained and even increased a little muscle doing it this way while dropping fat. My strength in gym is going up.

 

[superhuman]

222g protein, 133g carbs, 35g fat
So yeah almost low carb. This is working in terms of getting my leaner

I'm afraid this calorie-restricted diet is likely to result in a loss of your lean body mass, which includes your muscles, bones or organs, while your metabolism also drops.

Can you tell me this: What is your percentage body fat (BF%)? What is your total weight (TW)?

From this, we can tell what your lean body mass (LBM) is. Because LBM equals TW minus (TW times BF%). It's important that your LBM stays the same or increases, while your BF% decreases.

Well for a start he's making protein his dominant macronutrient which is likely to mean a lot of it is being used for fuel and also setting him up enzymatically to run off "stored" protein (i.e muscle and organ tissue). Hardly optimal.

yeah that may be true, but how much i use protein for fuel is unsure since alot of science prove that high protein is needed to maintain muscle etc while calorie restricting.
Since im maintaining strength and muscle and loosing fat i cant do that bad in terms of running on muscle.
Also im forcing the body to use fat as well as fuel wich will be much more calories then the protein. The body is not stupid and starts to run off organs and muscle when you have alot of fat(stored energy) available. This will only be a concern when your bodyfat % is to low so you only have essential fat left wich will be 3-6% depending from person to person.

 

[pboy]

one day deep down you will realize that you want things to be a different way...it must be to where it can work out in a sweet way. You assume cutting calories is good and the only way to lose weight. Even if you lose weight by this method, you've actually only entangled yourself, unless later you are willing to admit that it was an unoptimal approach

 

[superhuman]

one day deep down you will realize that you want things to be a different way...it must be to where it can work out in a sweet way. You assume cutting calories is good and the only way to lose weight. Even if you lose weight by this method, you've actually only entangled yourself, unless later you are willing to admit that it was an unoptimal approach

Like i said, this is a short term approach and not optimal in terms of higher protein then carbs and the ratio. But its the only thing at this point that gets the job done without feeling super hungry.

To loose fat you have to cut calories no matter what you say. The best approach is ofc to bring up your metabolism so much that you will be burning a little more then you consume but you are not trying to consume less food, you eat til you are satisfied but at the end of the day that will be lead to consuming less calories then you burn.

 

[pboy]

just remember what I said, I don't think you are right, but apparently no matter what I say you already have the answers. Its a lot sweeter on this side

you could change the ratios but keep the same calories, if you were concerned. Why do you assume carbohyrates prevent fat loss? You should research the glucuronic acid pathway. Sugar helps eliminate fat, and every other toxin

 

[aquaman]

@visionofstrength, per pint of milk roughly have many tablespoons of sucrose/frustose do you add?

 

[visionofstrength]

@visionofstrength, per pint of milk roughly have many tablespoons of sucrose/frustose do you add?

I myself (like pboy) have found I feel best with two tablespoons or even more, based on my own self-experimentation. Just to be fair to Ray Peat, he uses much less: the juice made from a kilogram of ripe oranges, or the equivalent he says of only 150 grams of sugar. Ray Peat also says he is quite sedentary.

I don't have access to ripe fruit so I only use about a cup or so of OJ, and I try to participate in non-stress activity everyday. You may want to experiment to find your own "sweet spot," which reflects the amount of juice you have and your own level of activity.

 

[visionofstrength]

visionofstrength,
you mentioned taking pregnenolone, 1-3 grams a day. I just read a Peat article saying 300mg lasts for about a week. ... What's your take on this? Should an average person start out at 1-3 grams and reduce as needed or is there a specific reason for taking large doses daily?

Pregnenolone is one of those things you probably can't have too much of, but you usually have too little, especially as you age. It's been reported that Ray Peat himself used 1-3 grams a day, at least initially. My own experimentation matches Peat's, and I've only really felt significant benefits from the larger quantities.

 

[superhuman]

just remember what I said, I don't think you are right, but apparently no matter what I say you already have the answers. Its a lot sweeter on this side

you could change the ratios but keep the same calories, if you were concerned. Why do you assume carbohyrates prevent fat loss? You should research the glucuronic acid pathway. Sugar helps eliminate fat, and every other toxin

I dont think im right either, its just doing protein and carbs this way i feel alot fuller on as few calories.
Keeping the calories the same how would you adjust the ratio of carbs:protein then? and making sure that i dont loose any muscles along the way.

I know carbs accelerate fat loss and i love sugar/carbs in all ways its just when i restrict calories i find it easier to do higher protein to keep me full, its just a mental thing to keep me from eating to much thats all.

Once again,, i never assumed or said carbs/sugar prevents fat loss, it accelerates it for sure.

 

[visionofstrength]

its just when i restrict calories i find it easier to do higher protein to keep me full, its just a mental thing to keep me from eating too much thats all.

When it comes to milk protein and sugar, you can only eat too little, as almost everyone does, but you can't eat too much. Restricting calories by eating too little (of milk protein and sugar, or their equivalents) leads to a kind of wasting disease, similar to cachexia or anorexia, in which you may lose weight because your muscles, bones and organs waste away.

Yes, eating excessive protein without the carbohydrates needed to digest it may make you feel full, even though you may be wasting away, but people with wasting diseases often feel full, even though they may be starving.

 

[pboy]

what it probably is superhuman...cause yea, I think the results would be the same, but youd feel a lot better and cleaner with a more carb/protein ratio. The thing is, you are probably feeling more satiatied with protein and it helps you feel satisfied, cause its denser and less water than fruit, and coffee with sugar for example...not because its protein rather than carbo. When you take in something too watery to sweet(calories), even OJ, it in a way gives a hypoglycemic response...cause the body senses sugar based on, in a lot of ways, tonicity...so even if theres a lot of sugar there but its diluted, the body thinks theres very little there. You might actually consider white rice...its pretty hard to stay low fat and still get enough calories to water from carb/protein alone without either using more protein than you might like, or using some starch. Or else you gotta use a lot of sugar, honey, dried fruit or something like that...or just having some starch. Na man...if you know your body though, keep doing how you are...that's the key at the end of the day. If you have a nice routine down, sometimes that's better than a huge leap that might disempower you for a day or two. I guess...just realize that the reason the protein seems to work more than sugar is because its denser...that's pretty much it, so if you can manage to use a dense sugar source or starch, the same appetite satisfying thing will happen as with protein, and youll probably feel a bit better. I don't mean to suggest anything that would hurt, just trying to help you see how things could be better

 

[signalguy]

I'm confused on the sugar/milk. Do you just add granulated sugar to cold milk and drink it down? I thought I read something about the sugar being boiled in water. I must be missing something.

 

[Mittir]

I'm confused on the sugar/milk. Do you just add granulated sugar to cold milk and drink it down? I thought I read something about the sugar being boiled in water. I must be missing something.

Hypothyroid people often are low in enzymes that break down sugars like sucrose and lactose.
Heat and hydrolysis breaks down sucrose into glucose and fructose. It is also called Inverted sugar syrup. This should be easier to digest if one lacks sucrase enzyme. I am not sure
if just dissolving sugar in cold milk is enough to break down sucrose or one needs heat.
I have also seen that adding lemon juice to sugar syrup prevents it from re-cystallizing.
I believe there are youtube videos on how to make sugar syrup.

 

[superhuman]

what it probably is superhuman...cause yea, I think the results would be the same, but youd feel a lot better and cleaner with a more carb/protein ratio. The thing is, you are probably feeling more satiatied with protein and it helps you feel satisfied, cause its denser and less water than fruit, and coffee with sugar for example...not because its protein rather than carbo. When you take in something too watery to sweet(calories), even OJ, it in a way gives a hypoglycemic response...cause the body senses sugar based on, in a lot of ways, tonicity...so even if theres a lot of sugar there but its diluted, the body thinks theres very little there. You might actually consider white rice...its pretty hard to stay low fat and still get enough calories to water from carb/protein alone without either using more protein than you might like, or using some starch. Or else you gotta use a lot of sugar, honey, dried fruit or something like that...or just having some starch. Na man...if you know your body though, keep doing how you are...that's the key at the end of the day. If you have a nice routine down, sometimes that's better than a huge leap that might disempower you for a day or two. I guess...just realize that the reason the protein seems to work more than sugar is because its denser...that's pretty much it, so if you can manage to use a dense sugar source or starch, the same appetite satisfying thing will happen as with protein, and youll probably feel a bit better. I don't mean to suggest anything that would hurt, just trying to help you see how things could be better

Thanx man

What ratio do you think i should work towards then? like how much protein do i need you think? Im basing my intake on all the research beeing done in terms of maintaining or even gaining muscle while calorie restricting and beeing and athlete. The range is 2.2-3.1g/kg scaled upwards the leaner you are.

 

[superhuman]

its just when i restrict calories i find it easier to do higher protein to keep me full, its just a mental thing to keep me from eating too much thats all.

When it comes to milk protein and sugar, you can only eat too little, as almost everyone does, but you can't eat too much. Restricting calories by eating too little (of milk protein and sugar, or their equivalents) leads to a kind of wasting disease, similar to cachexia or anorexia, in which you may lose weight because your muscles, bones and organs waste away.

Yes, eating excessive protein without the carbohydrates needed to digest it may make you feel full, even though you may be wasting away, but people with wasting diseases often feel full, even though they may be starving.

Well 4 quarts of skimmed milk is around 1200 calories and say 100g sugar added in is 1600 kcal so thats still low calories. How much do you think one should be getting then, for maintaining muscle while loosing fat?

Also the little problem i have with is "eating" only milk with sugar, how tasty is that? and how satisfying does it feel to only drink your meals?

 

[pboy]

I think the ideal ratio is about 6-7 part glucose to 1 protein, but I wouldn't worry about that. Its just gonna trip you out. Best thing is...just let it all pan out how it
tastes best...feels best, but just keep your eyes open for ways to use a higher carbohydrate ratio, and see if you don't have more energy

I humbly admit ive not attempted to use really high protein and lift weight...but I recover from soreness or anything fine on current diet, and on a day of 2300-2900 calories, I probably get only about 64-70 grams...give or take...so im thinking its not that important compared to other factors. Babies rapidly grow on a 6% protein diet...doubling in size, tripling, within a few months...they take in by weight the equivalent to probably, 5000-6000 calories, but the message is...the protein is less important than over all calories, density, and such...even for growth of muscles, or anything. I think whether you are cut or not has to do more with hormonal balance, and a cleanliness of your lymph system, good posture, things like that...liver health, spleen health...skin health. That's where things become more serious...like you cant just buy stuff or do some kind of repletion to get cut. You can do those things to help grow bigger, but actually being cut and toned...its more of an overall health measure, both body and mind (hormonally). Tweaking macros wont help with this

theres a lot of people who are really cut but not even that muscular at all. Then you have tons of muscular people who are swoll and inflexible and kind of pudgy. Its two different things, that take 2 different approaches...behaviors, thoughts

 

[Jennifer]

one day deep down you will realize that you want things to be a different way...it must be to where it can work out in a sweet way. You assume cutting calories is good and the only way to lose weight. Even if you lose weight by this method, you've actually only entangled yourself, unless later you are willing to admit that it was an unoptimal approach

Like i said, this is a short term approach and not optimal in terms of higher protein then carbs and the ratio. But its the only thing at this point that gets the job done without feeling super hungry.

To loose fat you have to cut calories no matter what you say. The best approach is ofc to bring up your metabolism so much that you will be burning a little more then you consume but you are not trying to consume less food, you eat til you are satisfied but at the end of the day that will be lead to consuming less calories then you burn.

Let's talk about the Minnesota Starvation Experiment, shall we? I'm just kidding, superhuman. I won't bug you with that again.

I've always wonder though...after a person gets down to their ideal weight/body fat % through restriction, how do they plan on maintaining that new body composition? Wouldn't they have to restrict the rest of their life, since clearly they most likely aren't raising their metabolic rate and more likely driving it down even further?

Also, and you don't have to answer this if you don't want, but are you cutting for a competition or something, since clearly you're already a lean guy at 10% body fat.

 

[visionofstrength]

To loose fat you have to cut calories no matter what you say.

Let's talk about the Minnesota Starvation Experiment, shall we? I'm just kidding, superhuman. I won't bug you with that again.

Gee, I had never heard of this experiment, Jennifer, but it may be worth looking at in the context of this thread? If you'd like to comment on it for the rest of us, that would be great?

Results

The full report of results from the Minnesota Starvation Experiment was published in 1950 in a two-volume, 1,385-page text entitled The Biology of Human Starvation (University of Minnesota Press). The 50-chapter work contains an extensive analysis of the physiological and psychological data collected during the study, and a comprehensive literature review.

Among the conclusions from the study was the confirmation that prolonged semi-starvation produces significant increases in depression, hysteria and hypochondriasis as measured using the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory. Indeed, most of the subjects experienced periods of severe emotional distress and depression.[1]:161 There were extreme reactions to the psychological effects during the experiment including self-mutilation (one subject amputated three fingers of his hand with an axe, though the subject was unsure if he had done so intentionally or accidentally).[5] Participants exhibited a preoccupation with food, both during the starvation period and the rehabilitation phase. Sexual interest was drastically reduced, and the volunteers showed signs of social withdrawal and isolation.[1]:123–124 The participants reported a decline in concentration, comprehension and judgment capabilities, although the standardized tests administered showed no actual signs of diminished capacity. There were marked declines in physiological processes indicative of decreases in each subject’s basal metabolic rate (the energy required by the body in a state of rest), reflected in reduced body temperature, respiration and heart rate. Some of the subjects exhibited edema in their extremities, presumably due to decreased levels of plasma proteins given that the body's ability to construct key proteins like albumin is based on available energy sources.

Related work

One of the crucial observations of the Minnesota Starvation Experiment discussed by a number of researchers in the nutritional sciences—including Ancel Keys—is that the physical effects of the induced semi-starvation during the study closely approximate the conditions experienced by people with a range of eating disorders such as anorexia nervosa and bulimia nervosa. As a result of the study it has been postulated that many of the profound social and psychological effects of these disorders may result from undernutrition, and recovery depends on physical re-nourishment as well as psychological treatment.

Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_ ... Experiment

 

[pboy]

its exactly what youd expect and what is going on today. Average men come in, be fed 3100 calories for a few weeks, measures taken, then given 1500 calorie diet being reduced over time, and see what happens. Its what youd expect. At first, spacey and tired, thinking about food all the time. Eventually people started trying to sneak out and get food, many did and thus had to be thrown out of experiment, people treid to hide and steal. People started draming about food, couldn't sleep, became irritable and antisocial, many suicidal. One dude cut off his fingers...eventually they put their calories back up, and people were fiending and eating all day
past the point of being full, then coming back 30 minutes later and re stuffing. They messed around with protein and vitamin/mineral supplements and recorded the results, and in the end concluded none of them did anything, only 4500+ calories itself, without supplement, was necessary for recovery. It took 6 months for some to recover, some over a year. Later in their lives, a year or two later, many had become preoccupied with food so much they had become chefs or nutritionist as a career. Some said it was the most important experience of their life, and all of them said they would never do it again. Some never seemed to fully recover from the food obsession

 

[superhuman]

I think the ideal ratio is about 6-7 part glucose to 1 protein, but I wouldn't worry about that. Its just gonna trip you out. Best thing is...just let it all pan out how it
tastes best...feels best, but just keep your eyes open for ways to use a higher carbohydrate ratio, and see if you don't have more energy

I humbly admit ive not attempted to use really high protein and lift weight...but I recover from soreness or anything fine on current diet, and on a day of 2300-2900 calories, I probably get only about 64-70 grams...give or take...so im thinking its not that important compared to other factors. Babies rapidly grow on a 6% protein diet...doubling in size, tripling, within a few months...they take in by weight the equivalent to probably, 5000-6000 calories, but the message is...the protein is less important than over all calories, density, and such...even for growth of muscles, or anything. I think whether you are cut or not has to do more with hormonal balance, and a cleanliness of your lymph system, good posture, things like that...liver health, spleen health...skin health. That's where things become more serious...like you cant just buy stuff or do some kind of repletion to get cut. You can do those things to help grow bigger, but actually being cut and toned...its more of an overall health measure, both body and mind (hormonally). Tweaking macros wont help with this

theres a lot of people who are really cut but not even that muscular at all. Then you have tons of muscular people who are swoll and inflexible and kind of pudgy. Its two different things, that take 2 different approaches...behaviors, thoughts

Wow thats a high range when cutting for sure. But yeah i agree ideally one should aim for at least 2:1 ratio as RP said himself to me. RP also has written so many articles that low protein is really bad and 64-70 grams seems low. He says for very active people 120g is enough and you can push it up to 150g but that i think is the highest he recommends.

I did an experiment and ate low/lower protein for 2 weeks. Like 80-120g and that included bad protein as well like grain protein etc so not ideal. I also didnt take that much sodium during the time, and my face really blew up like a baloon. So there is no doubt that protein and sodium play a big part in regards to my health when it comes to water retention. Maybe i wasnt getting enough calcium and magnesium during that time or maybe there other factors that im not sure off but still.