High Dose Niacinamide Experiment

[Pet Peeve]

I've had 250 mg several times before but no bad symptoms. I do feel full of adrenaline also, but I won't rule out candida die off.

 

[Pet Peeve]

I googled low blood sugar and niacinamide and found the opposite but I just tried to find what I read and I can't locate it. I apologize /retract if this isn't accurate. I'll continue to look for my source.

Niacin and niacinamide (Vitamin B3) : MedlinePlus Supplements

 

[HDD]

Niacin and niacinamide (Vitamin B3) : MedlinePlus Supplements

Yes, that's what I saw.

From that link-
Diabetes: Niacin and niacinamide might increase blood sugar. People with diabetes who take niacin or niacinamide should check their blood sugar carefully.

 

[tara]

Your symptoms appear to be blood sugar related but that doesn't make sense because I thought niacinamide raises blood sugar.

AIUI, niacinamide restricts lipolysis, so it can leave the body relying more on sugars. If it was previously relying more on fats, and you restrict that fuel, the blood sugar can get burned through and go down much faster. I guess there might be conditions in which this eventually esults in stress hormones raising blood sugar again.

Any idea why I would have such a bad reaction to 1000 mg when others consume 4000 mg and get sleepy?

Some people may be fine with 4g, but I personally I wouldn't go near 1g deliberately (I took a few hundred a couple of times and regretted it.)
If anyone is considering trying high doses of niacinamide, I'd suggest working up to it gradually, so you can see what you tolerate. Starting at ~50 -100mg doses, several times a day. Or starting at 250mg if you've been fine with that before.

 

[Jeek]

I have been taking niacinamide for a while as part of a b-complex (50mg maybe?), but yesterday I tried this one:
Source Naturals, Niacinamide, B-3, Timed Release, 1,500 mg, 100 Tablets

Wish I had read this thread first :P Massive headache today, had to take an hour off work to nap and fill up on sugar.
I've now (mid day) had 16 grams of sugar in 2 glasses of milk, and it feels abit better. Still a dull throbbing in head and feel sort of shell shocked.

Not very sensitive to either food or supplements usually, and "never" have headaches, so this is strong stuff..

p.s. can timed release pills be split?

 

[tara]

p.s. can timed release pills be split?

They can, but I don't know whether it speeds up release. Seems like a good idea to split into little pieces and try smaller doses. I little with every meal probably better than a lot once a day.

 

[PUTFOT]

Is high dosing niacin enough to lower serotonin significantly?

 

[Jeek]

They can, but I don't know whether it speeds up release. Seems like a good idea to split into little pieces and try smaller doses. I little with every meal probably better than a lot once a day.

Seems fine, I don't see any layers or anything when split. Half of 1500mg is good, I get a very slight headache if go too long between meals (so like an alarm :) ).

 

[TubZy]

To me niacinamide is more like a mind drug (pretty much like LSD was back in 60s) that you can take after a hectic day and it would immediately stop the stress response (if taken properly with enough sugar), and reverse the mental (and some of the physical) damage the stress that day did to you. If you that study on high dose niacinamide it says that niacinamide acts like a true serotonin inverse agonist on all serotonin "receptors". That's pretty much how Ray described LSD in one of his articles - i.e. "LSD is a powerful serotonin (approximate) antagonist".
A lot of that hectic day damage is concentrated in the stomach (where over 90% of serotonin is synthesized) and stomach issues like IBD and Chron's are known to have elevated serotonin causing bizarre synptoms like crazy/psychotic racing thoughts. Since niacinamide seems for me to decrease gut serotonin I reserve the high dose of niacinamide for those purposes - i.e. normalize mental health and gut health after a truly hectic day. Btw, for me the effect does NOT wear off. I mean, the effect after a high dose of niacinamide does wear off the next day but the next dose does not have to be larger to somehow compensate for me getting used to it. Then again, I only use the high doses (6,000mg-8,000mg) in extreme cases when I feel like I do need the extra punch.
Aside from that I take "lower" daily dosage of it that are still higher than what Ray mentions. I am taking the vitamin B "energy punch", which (as I mentioned to caroline) for me comes comes down to taking two doses (one in morning and one in evening) of the following:

Niacinamide: one capsule 500mg
Thiamine: 5 capsules x 300mg each for a total of 1,500mg
Riboflavin: 2 capsules x 100mg in each for 200mg total
B comples combo capsule: has 5mg B6, 5mg B5, 500mcg biotin, etc.

So, my "normal" niacinamide intake is 1,000mg daily (500mg morning and 500mg evening) as part of the vitamin B regimen. I know that seems a lot to some people but I am convinced that it is the niacinamide that got me from a pre-diabetic state of full ketosis back to sugar oxidation. I was on paleo diet for about 2 years and when I stopped I would still taste the acetone on my lips and my sweat would smell like ketones even when I was drinking pure sugar. People were noticing and asking if I use nail polish, it was that bad of a ketosis state. So, about 6 months after my flirt with niacinamide things normalized. It could have been the diet as well, but every time I would take a 500mg niacinamide pill the ketone smell/taste would go away in 30min-60min. So, in hindsight everything is 20/20 I guess.

When I used niacinamide in high doses 1000mg+ it completely cured any digestive issues- like I was eating pints of ice cream with zero digestive issues, which I could never do even with betaine HCL and digestive enzymes. Do you think niacinamide is working on digestive problems soley from the serotonin inverse agonist aspect in the gut (increasing metabolism greatly) or from it's strong anti fungal/bacterial properties from an underling issues that is causing a slow down in digestion?

I'm pretty fine now I'm on my regimen- but I want to add niacinamide back in with the combo of caffeine. I stopped it due to feeling sedated on it. I just liked the fact from niacinamide that it literally keeps any water retention any digestive stress to virtually zero, I feel my metabolism is in overdrive, which is awesome- also put my libido in overdrive along with heavy sleep (which could be good or bad).

 

[biggirlkisss]

how much nicainmide did you use i take 500mg and notice nothing

 

[biggirlkisss]

what type of digustion problems did u ahve before.

 

[TubZy]

how much nicainmide did you use i take 500mg and notice nothing

3-4 grams. I notice effects from 500mg but nothing that noticeable in terms of digestion- more of the cognitive effects. Try taking a minimum of 1 gram or more. Just make sure you are eating enough sugar though. My digestion was messed up from finasteride which slowed my metabolism down causing gut issues with poor digestion, food intolerances, bloat etc.

Niacinamide seems to cover any issue anyways...anti bacterial, anti fungal, anti serotonin, boost metabolism etc. so even if you are not 100% sure what you have it can't really hurt to try it out.

Not sure if it could help out histamine intolerance though. Usually histamine intolerance is caused by an underlying gut issue like candida, SIBO etc.

Maybe niacinamide can help SIBO too.

 

[tara]

Niacinamide seems to cover any issue anyways...anti bacterial, anti fungal, anti serotonin, boost metabolism etc. so even if you are not 100% sure what you have it can't really hurt to try it out.

But if you want to reduce the risk of unwanted side-effects, you can increase the dose gradually, and back off if it gets too much.

 

[haidut]

When I used niacinamide in high doses 1000mg+ it completely cured any digestive issues- like I was eating pints of ice cream with zero digestive issues, which I could never do even with betaine HCL and digestive enzymes. Do you think niacinamide is working on digestive problems soley from the serotonin inverse agonist aspect in the gut (increasing metabolism greatly) or from it's strong anti fungal/bacterial properties from an underling issues that is causing a slow down in digestion?

I'm pretty fine now I'm on my regimen- but I want to add niacinamide back in with the combo of caffeine. I stopped it due to feeling sedated on it. I just liked the fact from niacinamide that it literally keeps any water retention any digestive stress to virtually zero, I feel my metabolism is in overdrive, which is awesome- also put my libido in overdrive along with heavy sleep (which could be good or bad).

I think it is probably both but its anti-bacterial effects can be especially helpful for people with SIBO, which is most hypothyroid people. The anti-serotonin effect would be more for IBS and similar issues. But improving digestion is usually due to improving CO2 levels (which niacinamide does by lowering lactate) and thus gastric acid production, and by eliminating SIBO. I have tried very high doses for a few days and they also work wonders for "flu" or sinusitis.

 

[biggirlkisss]

my doctor gave me niacin not nicainamide is it the same thing.

 

[chispas]

B3 has been one of the best things I've ever tried. 3g was like instant-dopaminergic happiness lasting 5 hours or more. Experimenting on myself with it, I found 1.5g to be a good sweet spot for daily consumption, because I was worried about my liver not coping. I took it every morning. In order to avoid the sugar crash issues/headaches that could occur, I would make sure I had a big dose of salt with whatever sugary food I ate before taking the B3 dose (usually OJ + 1tsp salt), because the salt keeps the adrenaline down, even despite the adrenalergic effects of the B3. I also preceded the dose of the B3 with glycine, which I consumed as part of a protein drink, because it keeps cortisol down.

I think it builds up in the body somehow, despite being a water-soluble vitamin. You have to take care with it, because I was assuming it would just leave the body via the urine each day. I dropped down to 250mg recently, but I think this is too low to really suppress serotonin in the gut.

 

[chispas]

Everything I report here is purely anecdotal and subjective, and I might be completely wrong about the actual mechanisms taking place chemically. I can only share my interpretation of my experience. Be doubtful.

 

[biggirlkisss]

haidut how high do you go?

 

[TubZy]

I think it is probably both but its anti-bacterial effects can be especially helpful for people with SIBO, which is most hypothyroid people. The anti-serotonin effect would be more for IBS and similar issues. But improving digestion is usually due to improving CO2 levels (which niacinamide does by lowering lactate) and thus gastric acid production, and by eliminating SIBO. I have tried very high doses for a few days and they also work wonders for "flu" or sinusitis.

Yeah, makes sense. It is truly super underestimated especially for vitamin. That is why I tell everyone to try niacinamide (at higher doses) first before any other gut repair regimen that most of the time can do more harm than good.

As long as I kept my sugar intake up my headaches went away. I know we debunked the serotonin theory on niacinamide- but I assume that goes the same for the theory of people claiming it can raise histamine too right? Since serotonin actually decreases from niacinamide, I would assume histamine would actually decrease too.

Do you notice the reduction in water retention from it?

 

[haidut]

Yeah, makes sense. It is truly super underestimated especially for vitamin. That is why I tell everyone to try niacinamide (at higher doses) first before any other gut repair regimen that most of the time can do more harm than good.

As long as I kept my sugar intake up my headaches went away. I know we debunked the serotonin theory on niacinamide- but I assume that goes the same for the theory of people claiming it can raise histamine too right? Since serotonin actually decreases from niacinamide, I would assume histamine would actually decrease too.

Do you notice the reduction in water retention from it?

I do notice reduced water retention from 500mg+ per dose. Niacinamide is also anti-histamine, so we can add this to its positive count. Knowing how powerfully anti-inflammatory niacinamide is, it can't really be pro-histamine. Theanine and the drug ketotifen have very similar effects on mast cell histamine.
Nicotinamide: a potential addition to the anti-psoriatic weaponry. - PubMed - NCBI
"...Nicotinamide is a potent phosphodiesterase inhibitor and suppresses neutrophil chemotaxis and mast cell histamine release. It inhibits nitric oxide synthase mRNA induction and suppresses antigen-induced lymphocyte transformation. Nicotinamide increases the biosynthesis of ceramides, which upon degradation produce sphingosine. Sphingosine inhibits protein kinase C (PKC) and decreases basal cell proliferation dependent on PKC. Taken together, it can be reasoned that nicotinamide could be a useful addition to anti-psoriatic armamentarium. The combination of nicotinamide and thalidomide or methotrexate provided a powerful synergistic inhibition of murine collagen-induced arthritis. Nicotinamide decreased the methotrexate-induced hepatotoxicity. The above combinations may prove to have a powerful anti-psoriatic effect as well. As PARP inhibitors could exert anti-retroviral effect, nicotinamide could also be of special value in the treatment of HIV-infected psoriatics."