Mammogram and ultrasound, reliability and meaning

VivienTT

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Hello everybody,

3 months ago my mother got diagnosed with a breast cancer.

End of April:
On the mammogram report, they describe a polybulous mass of up to 22mm.
On the ultrasound report, they describe a lesion of 31mm in height, 20mm wide, 17mm thick.

She also did a biopsy which confirmed the tumor was malignant, the grade was 2 (on a scale of 1 to 3).

We tried alternative method to try to cure this (water fasting + controlled nutrition + other lifestyle interventions, such as moving places). We did another mammogram + ultrasound mid-July (at a different hospital than the first one).

Mid-July:
On the mammogram report, they describe a main mass of speculated outline of 19*18*16mm, with tumoral extension in the direction of the nipple. The whole lesion measures 50mm in height, 50mm in the anteroposterior axis and 31mm in width.
On the ultrasound report, they describe a main mass of 14 * 11 * 13mm, it has digitiform extensions in a nipple direction, lower and more internal, the whole being difficult to measure by this technique, being estimated at 33 * 15mm.
--------------------------------------------------------

So basically, on the ultrasound there is no growth of the tumor between end of April and mid-July, while on the mammogram, there is a quite important growth. What is the most accurate between an ultrasound or mammogram?

What makes things more confusing is that in April they didn't discern between the "main mass" and the extensions on the mammogram, while they do that in mid-July. If we take into account only the main mass of the first mammogram, it could have actually decreased. Is it possible that the first mammogram didn't measure the extension but only the main mass because it was not accurate (adn not because the extensions weren't already there)? I think in mid-July they did a tomosynthesis mammography while in April they did without tomosynthesis.

The interpretation of these results is very important for us because if will determine if my mother chose to do a surgery or not. It the tumor has grow then we will have to opt for the surgery But given these results, it sounds unclear if the tumor has actually grow.
 
Last edited:

Bluebell

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Hello Vivien,

Maybe you could go back to the doctors at the imaging centres for April and July, and ask them for more information on what exactly they measured, so you can compare like for like. You could also ask for the missing third dimension for the July ultrasound.

Mammogram - April 'mass' 22mm; July 'mass' 19x18x16mm, 'whole lesion' 50mm
Ultrasound - April 'lesion' 31x20x17mm; July 'the whole' 33x15mm (difficult to estimate), 'main mass' 14x11x13mm

It would look like the mammograms possibly indicate a 3mm shrinkage on largest dimension, measuring the 'mass'.
The ultrasounds possibly indiciate a 2mm increase on largest dimension and a possible 2mm shrinkage on presumably the 3rd dimension (both difficult to estimate), measuring the 'lesion' it seems (if 'the whole' on the July scan is the same as 'lesion' in April).

This is comparing the measurements of mammogram-mammogram and ultrasound-ultrasound. Check with doctors, but it doesn't seem to make sense to compare mammogram-ultrasound measurements due to the differences in imaging.


You could also ask what the margin of error is for all these measurements.

If you are so inclined, I would be interested to hear more details of your interventions.

Best wishes
 
Last edited:

LLight

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Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
1,415
Hi,
I can't answer your question about cancer monitoring but two or three things:
- dry fasting could be more efficient than water fasting (see this thread Water Structure, Osmolytes And Cancer for some reasoning)
- iodine (and thus selenium) could be helpful for breast cancer.
- if you are rich enough (it's really costly), deuterium depleted water could also be helpful.

I can give you more details about these points if you are interested.
 

frannybananny

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Joined
Apr 26, 2018
Messages
704
Hello everybody,

3 months ago my mother got diagnosed with a breast cancer.

End of April:
On the mammogram report, they describe a polybulous mass of up to 22mm.
On the ultrasound report, they describe a lesion of 31mm in height, 20mm wide, 17mm thick.

She also did a biopsy which confirmed the tumor was malignant, the grade was 2 (on a scale of 1 to 3).

We tried alternative method to try to cure this (water fasting + controlled nutrition + other lifestyle interventions, such as moving places). We did another mammogram + ultrasound mid-July (at a different hospital than the first one).

Mid-July:
On the mammogram report, they describe a main mass of speculated outline of 19*18*16mm, with tumoral extension in the direction of the nipple. The whole lesion measures 50mm in height, 50mm in the anteroposterior axis and 31mm in width.
On the ultrasound report, they describe a main mass of 14 * 11 * 13mm, it has digitiform extensions in a nipple direction, lower and more internal, the whole being difficult to measure by this technique, being estimated at 33 * 15mm.
--------------------------------------------------------

So basically, on the ultrasound there is no growth of the tumor between end of April and mid-July, while on the mammogram, there is a quite important growth. What is the most accurate between an ultrasound or mammogram?

What makes things more confusing is that in April they didn't discern between the "main mass" and the extensions on the mammogram, while they do that in mid-July. If we take into account only the main mass of the first mammogram, it could have actually decreased. Is it possible that the first mammogram didn't measure the extension but only the main mass because it was not accurate (adn not because the extensions weren't already there)? I think in mid-July they did a tomosynthesis mammography while in April they did without tomosynthesis.

The interpretation of these results is very important for us because if will determine if my mother chose to do a surgery or not. It the tumor has grow then we will have to opt for the surgery But given these results, it sounds unclear if the tumor has actually grow.
Artemesinin Annua(sweet wormwood) is proven to kill breast cancer cells. If it was me with this diagnosis I think I would go with Jim Gordon's herbal protocol of 11 different herbs from the Amazon 2x a day. You can find hundreds of testimonials on his facebook page under Jim Gordon. he doesn't sell anything.
 
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V

VivienTT

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Hello Vivien,

Maybe you could go back to the doctors at the imaging centres for April and July, and ask them for more information on what exactly they measured, so you can compare like for like. You could also ask for the missing third dimension for the July ultrasound.

Mammogram - April 'mass' 22mm; July 'mass' 19x18x16mm, 'whole lesion' 50mm
Ultrasound - April 'lesion' 31x20x17mm; July 'the whole' 33x15mm (difficult to estimate), 'main mass' 14x11x13mm

It would look like the mammograms possibly indicate a 3mm shrinkage on largest dimension, measuring the 'mass'.
The ultrasounds possibly indiciate a 2mm increase on largest dimension and a possible 2mm shrinkage on presumably the 3rd dimension (both difficult to estimate), measuring the 'lesion' it seems (if 'the whole' on the July scan is the same as 'lesion' in April).

This is comparing the measurements of mammogram-mammogram and ultrasound-ultrasound. Check with doctors, but it doesn't seem to make sense to compare mammogram-ultrasound measurements due to the differences in imaging.


You could also ask what the margin of error is for all these measurements.
Thank you Bluebell, it is what I thought but it is good to have someone else confirm my interpretation.

This is a very difficult decision to make. We are still debating it.
My gut feeling says it would be better to say no to the surgery but then I start to think at the statistics of "untreated" (ie. not medically treated) breast cancer with a very bad survival rate, and it sounds like it would be more prudent to opt for the surgery.

If you are so inclined, I would be interested to hear more details of your interventions.
She was feeling really bad and stressed within her old house, therefore I thought moving her to some nicer place would decrease a lot her stress levels. I think it worked regarded that goal of stress reduction.

Also, she does a lot of sunbathing and grounding. Regarding the diet I give her a nutrients-rich diet. But really, our main hope was in the extended water fast, which didn't work as good as expected.
 
Last edited:
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VivienTT

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Forum Supporter
Joined
Jul 2, 2023
Messages
5
Location
Paris
Hi,
I can't answer your question about cancer monitoring but two or three things:
- dry fasting could be more efficient than water fasting (see this thread Water Structure, Osmolytes And Cancer for some reasoning)
- iodine (and thus selenium) could be helpful for breast cancer.
- if you are rich enough (it's really costly), deuterium depleted water could also be helpful.

I can give you more details about these points if you are interested.
Very interesting this thread about dry fasting. I heard a lot of people debate which one between dry or water fasting is better, but this is the first time that I see an actual rational argument.

I'd be interesting by more information regarding selenium and iodine, yes please.

Deuterium water I might consider it if we say no to surgery.
Artemesinin Annua(sweet wormwood) is proven to kill breast cancer cells. If it was me with this diagnosis I think I would go with Jim Gordon's herbal protocol of 11 different herbs from the Amazon 2x a day. You can find hundreds of testimonials on his facebook page under Jim Gordon. he doesn't sell anything.
I will look into it, thanks.
The problem is that they are many people over the internet who have cured their cancer themselves, but it seems each one has followed a different protocol, and some parts of each protocols contradict which other parts. So it is difficult to navigate into that.
 

LLight

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May 30, 2018
Messages
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I'd be interesting by more information regarding selenium and iodine, yes please.
It is not exhaustive but some example of publication on iodine vs (breast) cancer:

We review evidence showing that, in addition to being a component of the thyroid hormone, iodine can be an antioxidant as well as an antiproliferative and differentiation agent that helps to maintain the integrity of several organs with the ability to take up iodine. In animal and human studies, molecular iodine (I2) supplementation exerts a suppressive effect on the development and size of both benign and cancerous neoplasias.

Iodine, in addition to its incorporation into thyroid hormones, is organified into anti-proliferative iodolipids in the thyroid; such compounds may also play a role in the proliferative control of extrathyroidal tissues. Selenium acts synergistically with iodine.

Five-year disease-free survival rate was significantly higher in patients treated with the I2 supplement before and after surgery compared to those receiving the supplement only after surgery (82% versus 46%). I2-treated tumors exhibit less invasive potential, and significant increases in apoptosis, estrogen receptor expression, and immune cell infiltration. Transcriptomic analysis indicated activation of the antitumoral immune response.

Not saying this is a panacea but it could be helpful :):
 

frannybananny

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Apr 26, 2018
Messages
704
>>I will look into it, thanks.
The problem is that they are many people over the internet who have cured their cancer themselves, but it seems each one has followed a different protocol, and some parts of each protocols contradict which other parts. So it is difficult to navigate into that.<<

I agree @VivienTT... Please let us know how it is going and best of luck to you!!
 
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