Manufactured citric acid is a powerful inflammatory/allergy agent

[Dr. B]

Oh man this ***t (Citric acid) is in everything. I'll have to just try and minimise exposure or something, I'd end up doing nothing but stressing about finding "safe" foods to eat otherwise. I already avoid gluten and PUFAs of course...

gluten is ironically more tolerable than citric acid, pufa, and even eggs for many people for some reason, citric acid is everywhere, usually in more processed foods or as a preservative, or flavoring in some sodas

 

[Dr. B]

Well now I know why I have had a chronic cough for 10 years, worsening every time I take a drink of a beverage containing citric acid. I already KNEW I was allergic to Aspergillus as allergy testing over the years has always included specific mold allergies. But of course I had no idea citric acid was MADE with aspergillus. More recently, in the last 3-4 years I have developed digestive difficulties and joint pains. Adding insult to injury, I guess.

Good grief, what else do I have to avoid in order to simply feel normal?

Oh man this ***t (Citric acid) is in everything. I'll have to just try and minimise exposure or something, I'd end up doing nothing but stressing about finding "safe" foods to eat otherwise. I already avoid gluten and PUFAs of course...

i used to use magnesium citrate at one point, got some odd symptoms like skin redness, bloating, maybe some fatigue..., facial puffiness
looking online you couldnt find much, supplement/bodybuilding boards would say maybe its poor manufacturing quality and to purchase a more expensive brand.
but it doesnt matter how "pure" the citric acid is, if its still sourced from mold, itll still cause the issues of that mold...

i also remember, I would do fine with a chocolate flavor whey, then switch over to a strawberry whey, which had citric acid in the ingredients. the citric acid whey caused bloating, some facial puffiness, some mild fatigue. contacted the whey company, and theyre like no the flavors are all hypoallergenic and different flavors should never cause different effects. they attempted to blame things like a "possible lactose intolerance" and all kinds of other excuses. they attempted to blame my sleep, my stress levels, my other dietary factors, whether I mixed the whey well enough, and all kinds of excuses, every possible excuse other than blaming the actual flavoring itself, which was obviously the real cause of the variance in cookies and creme whey vs strawberry vs chocolate etc.

at the time I had no idea, I would look at the label and see how the only difference was the flavoring, and that the chocolate whey had cocoa powder, while the strawberry had citric acid and beet juice for coloring. Googled side effects for those, and found a few things mentioning citric acids laxative effect or stomach upset. but you have to really dig deep to find out the sourcing for these things and then find out that it actually matters a lot even though the supplements are purified and extracted.
this supplement sourcing problem is likely behind side effects of taurine supplements (chemically synthesized instead of extracted from bull testicles), creatine supplements (chemically made), vitamin c supplements (mold or fungus sourced instead of citrus fruit sourced) and probably many supplements.

 

[gaze]

I suspect that rennet in the label is not enough to show it's "real animal rennet", if they write rennet without specifying it's annimal rennet or vegetable rennet then i would not take it unless i ask the producer.
Parmegianno regiano is made by real animal rennet, it's the only one that i trust.
Homemade cheese with vinegar or lemons juice is safe.

All the cheese you post in the picture look good and netherlands Gouda is made by animal rennet too, but i'm afraid that 'starter culture' or 'cheese' culture or 'lactic ferments' in the label cause allergenic reactions for most people, it's common nowadays to sterilize the milk and pasteurize it then they add the lactic ferments instead of making the milk ferment in room temperature naturally for 2 days.
Here is the RP quote saying that added culture are not good:
"The traditional cheeses were made with milk that soured with the bacteria that lived in the cows, but now it's common to sterilize the milk, and then add cultures, or enzymes, or citric acid, for standardization---but they often put their faith in a commercial product that seems to work well, but that could have serious allergenic contaminants"

If i apply this quote then i will look at cheeses with these only 3 ingredients: milk, salt, animal rennet.

this is good to know. i always thought cultures were benign. a lot of high quality cheeses with animal rennet contain cultures. I guess it's still safe if there's 0 negative symptoms but good to be on the look out for

 

[Mauritio]

swiss cheeses are mostly with animal rennet, atleast in germany. also more tasty but also more pricey

What would be the german translation for animal rennet ? Or what does it say on those swiss cheeses if you recall ?

 

[yerrag]

What then @StephanF do we use in place of potassium citrate and sodium citrate to make supplements to increase zeta potential, to counter the aluminum adjuvants used in vaccines that cause more clotting and thrombosis? We discussed before lemon having a lot of citric acid but little potassium citrate. What potassium salt can react with citric acid we get from lemon juice to make potassium citrate?

 

[Orome]

What would be the german translation for animal rennet ? Or what does it say on those swiss cheeses if you recall ?

"tierisches Lab":

 

[Nighteyes]

What then @StephanF do we use in place of potassium citrate and sodium citrate to make supplements to increase zeta potential, to counter the aluminum adjuvants used in vaccines that cause more clotting and thrombosis? We discussed before lemon having a lot of citric acid but little potassium citrate. What potassium salt can react with citric acid we get from lemon juice to make potassium citrate?

Would the potassium in orange juice be sufficient/relevant as I assume This would be accompanied by the citrate in that form?

 

[yerrag]

Would the potassium in orange juice be sufficient/relevant as I assume This would be accompanied by the citrate in that form?

It still would not amount to a lot of potassium citrate in a practical way to provide enough potassium citrate for daily supplementation. You would have to take many oranges, and I'd have to calculate it so I don't have that offhand.

 

[Amazoniac]

Don't you find strange that residues of this fungus are supposed to make the final product holy? And why are they exploiting and then blaming the black/niger? Habit?

This issue is about impurities, but some members might extrapolate to the citrate molecule and even think of their bad reaction to oranges as a consequence, when it may only be a proxy for an unripe fruit.

Spoiler

If the bad reaction was due to the citrate, why they're not complaining when large amounts are ingested with it occurring with minerals?
If it's the acidity, do other acids produce a similar effect? Neutralization should abolish the bad reaction. Yet, the likely result is a bad fruit with a taste that's no longer masked by this acidity.
If it's the combination, unless you believe that there's a protective factor in limes, do they also react poorly to limeade in much lower amounts?

- Noncitrus Alkaline Fruit: A Dietary Alternative for the Treatment of Hypocitraturic Stone Formers

Spoiler

 

[yerrag]

Don't you find strange that residues of this fungus are supposed to make the final product holy? And why are they exploiting and then blaming the black/niger? Habit?

This issue is about impurities, but some members might extrapolate to the citrate molecule and even think of their bad reaction to oranges as a consequence, when it may only be a proxy for an unripe fruit.

Spoiler

If the bad reaction was due to the citrate, why they're not complaining when large amounts are ingested with it occurring with minerals?
If it's the acidity, do other acids produce a similar effect? Neutralization should abolish the bad reaction. Yet, the likely result is a bad fruit with a taste that's no longer masked by this acidity.
If it's the combination, unless you believe that there's a protective factor in limes, do they also react poorly to limeade in much lower amounts?

- Noncitrus Alkaline Fruit: A Dietary Alternative for the Treatment of Hypocitraturic Stone Formers

Spoiler

View attachment 26709

I would need my Dutch friend Hans to translate your English.

Or maybe better if you write in Dutch and my other friend Google translates it.

 

[Mauritio]

"tierisches Lab":

View attachment 26708

So tierisches Lab would be the good one and mikrobielles Lab the Bad one?

 

[Aymen]

this is good to know. i always thought cultures were benign. a lot of high quality cheeses with animal rennet contain cultures. I guess it's still safe if there's 0 negative symptoms but good to be on the look out for

Yes, someone have to experiment to see if the added culture cause problems or not.

 

[Mito]

Since its discovery and up until the 1950s citric acid was predominantly extracted from natural sources such as lemon (and other citrus) juice. However, subsequently, it was discovered that it can be more cheaply produced through extraction from a mold organism (Aspergillus Niger), which is highly pathogenic and can cause severe infections in humans. As such, the industrially produced citric acid extracted from that mold contains fragments of that mold's cells, as well as other contaminants. That is the substantive difference between the manufactured and natural citric acid, and it is this contamination in the manufactured version the authors of the study below believe is responsible for a wide range of inflammatory disorders.

I asked one of the tonic water manufacturers if the citric acid in their water was derived from citrus juice or Aspergillus Niger, they replied that it was derived from corn.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I don’t find cheese cultures to be a problem for me. I find enzymes to be a problem when consumed often.

 

[Dr. B]

I asked one of the tonic water manufacturers if the citric acid in their water was derived from citrus juice or Aspergillus Niger, they replied that it was derived from corn.

mate thats hogwash , it is derived from "corn" but its like fermented corn or moldy corn is what they use to extract the aspergillus niger, the fungus or molds come from corn initially. i think nobody uses citrus fruits for citric acid or ascorbic acid these days, I bet back when ray said vitamin C was only available in 50mg capsules and had good effects, it was probably from citrus fruits, or amla berry or other berries, they didnt have the tech to extract it from molds and corn like they can today.
there are still some vitamin c products on market which seem acceptable, they only have like 90mg or 180mg per capsule, and as expected are much pricier than other vitamin C. the brands ive found are smartervitamins "Tru C" and nutrigold vitamin C gold, they use freeze dried berries, like amla berry, acerola, maybe a couple other kinds of berries which are high in vitamin c. its only like 90mg vitamin C per capsule, because that's all they can fit, it seems like they could be useful since there is no corn or fungus involved, its just freeze dried berry mixtures.
the amla berry apparently has kaempferol in it, which i think is like a plant progestin, phytoprogesterone or something?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

So is store-bought juice off the table now?

 

[Dr. B]

So is store-bought juice off the table now?

there should be juices available with no added citric acid

 

[boris]

So tierisches Lab would be the good one and mikrobielles Lab the Bad one?

The good one is usually listed as just "Lab" or "tierisches Lab". The bad one is "mikrobielles Lab" or "Labaustauschstoff". Some brands don't list it at all, they usually have the bad one.

 

[Mauritio]

The good one is usually listed as just "Lab" or "tierisches Lab". The bad one is "mikrobielles Lab" or "Labaustauschstoff". Some brands don't list it at all, they usually have the bad one.

Thanks.

 

[Mito]

mate thats hogwash , it is derived from "corn" but its like fermented corn or moldy corn is what they use to extract the aspergillus niger, the fungus or molds come from corn initially

How is Citric Acid made?
Citric acid is found naturally in citrus fruits, but producing citric acid from citrus fruits is very expensive and the demand for citric acid is greater than the available supply of citrus fruits. Therefore, when you see citric acid on a product label, you can be sure that it is a powder that was made from the fermentation of sugars.

A culture of Aspergillus niger (a fungus commonly used in the pharmaceutical industry) is fed with sugar and metabolizes it into a liquid solution. The solution is mixed with lime (calcium hydroxide) which causes citrate salt to come out of the solution (precipitate). The citrate salt is then treated with sulfuric acid to make useable citric acid.

The sugars that are used for the citric acid can be derived from cane sugar, corn or wheat. In the United States, citric acid is most often derived from corn since it is a cheap, subsidized crop. In South America cane sugar is often used due to the low sugar prices, while in Europe wheat sweeteners are commonly used.

What is Citric Acid? - OK Kosher

Citric acid is a white powder used to give a sour taste to beverages and food products. It is also used as a preservative to prevent spoilage because it increases the acidity of products and many bacteria that cause food spoilage are unable to grow in an acidic environment. It is also used in...

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