Only 150-250g Gram Carbs ?

[Kasper]

I read that Ray Peat recommands 180-250 g carbs daily.
Is that for a 2000 calorie diet ?

Just doing a little bit of mathematics with that.
Because 180-250 gram carbs is only 700-1000 calories.
For someone that needs 2000 calories, that is only 35-50% of the total calories.
For someone that needs 3000 calories, that is only 23-33% of total calories.

I say "only", because the USDA recommands 45-65% of the calories should come from fat.
I was under the impression that Ray Peat recommands a high carb diet. But actually, this seems more like a low-mid carb diet.

Assuming a person eats 100 gram of protein. That is 400 calories.
So there are 1100-1400 calories for protein+carb.
That leaves 600-900 calories for fat if you need 2000 calories.
That is 66 up to 100 gram of fats.
That is 30% up to 45% fats. (as reference USDA recommands 20-35% should come from fat).

This makes me wonder why Ray Peat recommands skim milk. I mean, whole milk seems perfect if you want to get 66-100 gram of fats daily.

 

[Suikerbuik]

This makes me wonder why Ray Peat recommands skim milk. I mean, whole milk seems perfect if you want to get 66-100 gram of fats daily.

- Digestibility is one thing. You need some fat to digest things but in skim there is still some fat left.
- Some can get sluggisch from whole milk, because of the fat (too much can be too dificult to digest).
- Toxins are usually fat soluble, so full fat milk may contain things like antibiotics if the cows are fed adulterated stuff (sometimes getting quality milk is difficult so less fats can take care of this problem).
- Then there's PUFAs, taking a lot of milk as whole milk along with eggs and things like liver, etc. and PUFAs easily add up.

If you can handle I'd go for 300 gram carbs at least. Even 400 is fine too. Merely a personal thing. Coconut oil is something that Peat likes more if you're still 'stored' with PUFAs.

 

[pboy]

I think peat said he drinks skim milk because he adds heavy cream to coffee and eats coconut oil, so it balances out the fat. 35 - 50% sugar is actually probably the ideal range

 

[Kasper]

I think peat said he drinks skim milk because he adds heavy cream to coffee and eats coconut oil, so it balances out the fat.

He said that he doesn't recommand whole milk, because he thinks it is fattening.
I always thought that Ray Peat recommanded a high carb diet, as he didn't recommand whole milk.
I still find it strange. And why does he eat 400 gram of sugar, but recommand only 180-250 gram of sugar for the rest of us :p

35 - 50% sugar is actually probably the ideal range

But 35-50% sugar, means 66 up to 100 gram of fats daily.
I eat 2 egg yolks and no liver, but then there is still 57-91 gram of fat left.
I can't imagine seeing myself eating so much coconut oil. This would also be quite expensive.
Drinking some whole milk seems much more pleasant to me. Two quarts of whole milk gives 66 gram of fat.

- Digestibility is one thing. You need some fat to digest things but in skim there is still some fat left.

2 quarts of skim milk give 1.7 gram fat, that is almost negligeble.

- Some can get sluggisch from whole milk, because of the fat (too much can be too dificult to digest).

I think I digest fat from milk better than coconut oil actually. Especially if I mix the milk with egg yolk. The egg yolk seems make it easier to digest fat.

- Toxins are usually fat soluble, so full fat milk may contain things like antibiotics if the cows are fed adulterated stuff (sometimes getting quality milk is difficult so less fats can take care of this problem).

Hm.. okay, fair point, do you know if dutch organic cow milk is from good quality ?

- Then there's PUFAs, taking a lot of milk as whole milk along with eggs and things like liver, etc. and PUFAs easily add up.

Okay, fair, but you could also think it in this way. The more milk fat you eat, the less need to eat liver or egg yolk, as milk fat contains vitamin A as well.

 

[j.]

I think worrying about the PUFA in milk, beef, eggs, liver is taking things to an extreme degree.

If those are your main sources of PUFAs, you're likely to have low PUFA. If you're still worried, wouldn't it be better to saturate for blood and adipose tissue with vitamin E? That reduces the damage of PUFAs, and if I recall correctly, vitamin E in the intestine can convert PUFAs to saturated fats.

Using vitamin E instead of trying to cut whole milk, beef, eggs, etc., allows you to keep ingesting the important nutrients they have and not feel the effects of the PUFA consumed, or feel less.

If you feel like drinking whole milk, I think you should drink it. It's one of the few sources of the very important vitamin K2.

 

[Suikerbuik]

For those who want to take PUFA in milk into consideration take a look at:
http://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=3096&start=10

Quote from Mittir:

RP recommends low fat milk to restrict calorie/fat intake and probably to limit
PUFA intake. This following study measured both PUFA and CLA separately
on different kind of hay feed. PUFA content of cow fat varied from 3.2 percent
to 3.4 percent and CLA varied from .80 to .90 percent. If we exclude CLA
then PUFA is still around 2.4 percent. We will need to consume about 1 quart
of milk to get 2.4 grams of PUFA excluding CLA.

I don't buy it in the supermarket. We got a farmer nearby, straight from the cows! Don't know where yours come from. Think it's safe though, but be aware that anything may be called organic here in The Netherlands, since most come directly from nature (organic)... If it's called biologic (something that's organic in the USA if i'm right?) it should be pretty clean. The rules are pretty strict.

 

[superhuman]

yeez, listen to his interviews. He says AT LEAST 150-250g carbs. Many people need ALOT more

 

[Filip1993]

yeez, listen to his interviews. He says AT LEAST 150-250g carbs. Many people need ALOT more

Agreed, I need ALOT more than 250 g to feel good. 150-250 g is low carb IMO.

 

[arinryan]

I think peat said he drinks skim milk because he adds heavy cream to coffee and eats coconut oil, so it balances out the fat.

He said that he doesn't recommand whole milk, because he thinks it is fattening.
I always thought that Ray Peat recommanded a high carb diet, as he didn't recommand whole milk.
I still find it strange. And why does he eat 400 gram of sugar, but recommand only 180-250 gram of sugar for the rest of us :p

35 - 50% sugar is actually probably the ideal range

But 35-50% sugar, means 66 up to 100 gram of fats daily.
I eat 2 egg yolks and no liver, but then there is still 57-91 gram of fat left.
I can't imagine seeing myself eating so much coconut oil. This would also be quite expensive.
Drinking some whole milk seems much more pleasant to me. Two quarts of whole milk gives 66 gram of fat.

- Digestibility is one thing. You need some fat to digest things but in skim there is still some fat left.

2 quarts of skim milk give 1.7 gram fat, that is almost negligeble.

- Some can get sluggisch from whole milk, because of the fat (too much can be too dificult to digest).

I think I digest fat from milk better than coconut oil actually. Especially if I mix the milk with egg yolk. The egg yolk seems make it easier to digest fat.

- Toxins are usually fat soluble, so full fat milk may contain things like antibiotics if the cows are fed adulterated stuff (sometimes getting quality milk is difficult so less fats can take care of this problem).

Hm.. okay, fair point, do you know if dutch organic cow milk is from good quality ?

- Then there's PUFAs, taking a lot of milk as whole milk along with eggs and things like liver, etc. and PUFAs easily add up.

Okay, fair, but you could also think it in this way. The more milk fat you eat, the less need to eat liver or egg yolk, as milk fat contains vitamin A as well.

Thanks, this is really quite interesting. I agree with you about milk/butterfat being easier to digest than coconut oil. I am going to try out the low range that Dr. Peat recommends...(closer to 150g carb) and see how it works for me--I got very accustomed to a high fat diet for a while, and felt very good and didn't gain weight on it. I always thought going that low with carbs would be anti-Peat.

Does anyone know a way to get lactose (milk sugar) in some solid form, separate from milk? (To get the carbs/sugar without the bad cow toxin stuff)

 

[juanitacarlos]

It's all about context. I've heard him recommend skim milk if you are drinking a lot of milk and especially if you are trying to lose weight. If you are 50 kgs overweight and sedentary and you want to drink a gallon of milk, probably skim is the go wouldn't you say? If you slim and active and drink a litre of milk per day, I'm sure full-fat would work for you. Or not - it's very individual.

He said in an interview that an even split of macronutrient ratios should work fine for most people - some would definitely consider 33% carbs to be low-carb.

I know Mittir stated once that Peat also said that anything between around 35-50% carbs is fine. So there is a lot of range there to create a diet that works for you. I know personally that anything above 45-50% carbs makes me put on weight. But that is because I'm PUFA-ridden, estrogenic 40+ unwell female. Might be different for a young fella like you Kasper.

I personally can't stand skim milk - it's tastes like sh*t. I either drink full-cream or 2% milk. Drinking lots of 2% milk helped with weight loss for me.