Peatarian.com Is Now BeesandButterflies.org?

[ilovethesea]

Does anyone know who owns this site now? It's completely changed, here's the message at the top:

"This used to be a Ray Peat inspired forum called 'Peatarian', but as pointed out by many people throughout the years the whole concept is not a good idea, it's way too cultish. Ray's original articles are probably best to read so that you aren't presented a distorted image.
Private messaging is still available, click here for the list of members.

Ray Peat Forum is an other, better forum (or you can use the Facebook groups)."

How embarrassing ... anyway whoever is ******* around with it has removed the ability to create or reply to any posts... and there is no way to log in or see/respond to private messages.

Also, this very important page of quotes is now hidden http://beesandbutterflies.org/peatexchanges We should all grab a copy and save it before it disappears.

 

[charlie]

Bruno owns the site. He wrote me last night and asked if we wanted to move the Peat Exchanges over here. I wrote him back and told him yes. So I went ahead and made a temporary page for it until I figure out where to put it.

page/exchanges

 

[Bruno]

Yes, thanks, no worries about it staying online in a static way (you can always use site mirroring software to make sure posts aren't lost). The silly name change is in response to the recurrent claims of cultishness, sometimes it felt like the whole setup created a bubble for some.
I don’t see why I’d change or reply to posts, though I may just add photographs of bees and butterflies here and there, if you want to login to message people you can go to http://peatarian.com/login (it should redirect), or just try to reply to a post and it should give you a link to login.
This forum seems much appreciated by people, lately, so it's probably for the best.

 

[Such_Saturation]

But what about the "weekly critiques"? I think it was "less cultish" than this. Way too much drama for my humble taste, though.

 

[cantstoppeating]

The great thing about this forum is its action-orientated slant. Most people here are very proactive -- they do good research (pulse, temp, bloodwork, relevant studies etc), experiment on themselves and report back. It's about improving health and generally getting real world results.

Of course there's a few silly posts (disguised as 'critiques', 'debates' or 'discussions') but they're relatively rare. Now that peaterian is closed, I hope the mods are aren't taxed too much in keeping out the trolls/noise.

 

[KAPOW]

Not even a word of warning. Just shut down the site in the most condescending, obnoxious way possible. What a sad (if not despicable) way to treat people. I fail to see how a simple Q and A forum (that is open to everyone) can possibly be defined as "cultish", anyway. Perhaps this is due to a language barrier?

 

[johns74]

Not even a word of warning. Just shut down the site in the most condescending, obnoxious way possible. What a sad (if not despicable) way to treat people. I fail to see how a simple Q and A forum (that is open to everyone) can possibly be defined as "cultish", anyway. Perhaps this is due to a language barrier?

Dude, he made available that site for you with a lot of effort and without charging you anything. You should be thanking him for all the valuable information he allowed you to learn! If anyone here is despicable is isn't him.

It would be more appropriate for you to send him money to reimburse part of his expenses which allowed you to exchange information for quite some time, than protesting because he was so unselfish.

No wonder the world is going to hell. People feel entitled, just expect others to do things for them for free, to then spit in their faces when they stop volunteering their time for them.

 

[ilovethesea]

Thanks Charlie. Bruno I didn't realize you were still involved. I'm confused, I thought the site was being transferred to someone else last year when you decided Ray's ideas didn't work for you.

John, I don't think it's a matter of not appreciating Peatarian. Obviously we did or wouldn't be saddened by this change. I think what's frustrating is that it now reads like an apology for Ray Peat's ideas and pretty much slanders those of us interested in him.

And I don't get this "cult" label either, Kapow. Obviously when you are sick and nothing else has worked, you try to follow Ray's advice to the letter... and then when you get healthier, you relax about certain things later. What's the big deal?

 

[ilovethesea]

On the login page it says "Anti-Ray-Peat Q&A".

I suppose that's accurate now...

 

[narouz]

It's about improving health and generally getting real world results...
Of course there's a few silly posts (disguised as 'critiques', 'debates' or 'discussions') but they're relatively rare...

You're saying you're for a good liberal arts education? :)

 

[cantstoppeating]

It's about improving health and generally getting real world results...
Of course there's a few silly posts (disguised as 'critiques', 'debates' or 'discussions') but they're relatively rare...

You're saying you're for a good liberal arts education? :)

Witness above an example of a silly post -- whose author is well accomplished at such. At every chance, he enjoys 'discussions' and 'debate' on the topic of what a 'diet' is.

In general, what degrades the value of a community, as seen over at Peaterian, is often a few individuals who treat it as playground posting nonsense and drivel. They're usually the 'regulars' who post daily and appear to have no social interaction aside from the forums -- instead of an adjunct to their lives it becomes their lives and the resulting drama ensues.

Like any garden, if you do nothing, weeds will takeover. Peaterian lacked good moderation and was overrun with weeds.

 

[narouz]

Like any garden, if you do nothing, weeds will takeover. .

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Wow cantstoppeating...harsh words indeed. What's wrong with silly banter or nonsense once in a while? It can add a bit of levity now and then....after all, laughter is the BEST medicine.

 

[Nicholas]

i absolutely never visit this forum, but the first post i read here was of a peatarian cultish slant - and the responses were agreeable and positive. i'm sure it's not the majority here, just as it wasn't the majority on peatarian.com. to close down peatarian on the basis that it was too cultish or promoted cultishness and then recommending this forum is not valid. i suspect there are other reasons - and that is fine. for it to be changed to "Anti-Ray Peat" forum is not accurate, either. it makes me wonder if Bruno thought that the site was becoming anti ray peat....? even being cultish is a necessary part of the journey. and if there was a regular moderator on peatarian of pointing out dogmatic dietary protocols or posts twisting Peat's world view, it was me. so it can't be said that those things were not kept in check. by first glance, this forum seems more cultish and less diverse. peatarian was a good forum because the posts were always so individual and interesting - it had a nice vibe where people could say whatever was on their mind even if it seemed inappropriate. i agree there were better days, though.

 

[mtk]

I assume that the individual who started Peatarian.com wanted to provide a forum for a community of individuals equally interested in strengthening and maintaining good health and possibly able or wishing to share an interest in the work of Ray Peat. Therefore, when the decision was made to end the forum, I don't understand why there wasn't greater consideration given to the diverse community which was generated from this effort. If I had created this forum, I hope that I would have been cognizant of the investment of the members of the community in the forum and that I would have wanted to acknowledge that community when a decision was being made to close/change the forum. I would want to give reasonable notice of the changes that were being made. It appears that some recent contributors/questioners will not even have an opportunity to receive responses. I also don't understand the "cultish" characterization made, when what I have observed is a diverse, free, and open forum for those connected by their interest in good health, not by devotion to Ray Peat or a particular prescription for good health. Finally, deciding to characterize the new direction of the forum with the words, "anti-ray peat", seems to suggest downright hostility towards many who have truly valued the forum, its structure, and the community which has been developed. I can only hope that such a suggestion was not intended.

 

[Nicholas]

exactly my thoughts, mtk, on the "anti-ray-peat" thing - it read like Bruno was offended or something by something somebody may have said and then decided to close down the site out of frustration. peatarian was interesting because while the URL and forum name seemed Peat-centric, the posts tended to be rather free of Peat soundbytes. i always thought this was cool, because it kind of represented what i think Peat would prefer - having a catalyst, a foundation, such as many of the things Peat brought to our attention - and then the bulk of everything else is us doing our own perceiving, thinking, and acting. mistakes and all.

 

[Mountain]

Yeah good comments, Nicholas and mtk. I used Peatarian mostly because it wasn't as dogmatic as other health forums, even though I don't follow a "peat diet". It was a nice place where people shared some of the less heard of health practices.

Thanks for the memories :)

 

[Bruno]

Well it’s everyone’s experience, throughout the years I met several people who got major panic attacks from eating in somewhat typical forum/blog-inspired ways.

Sometimes you had people talking about caries while guzzling coke, not that anyone imposed this on them but I felt like the forum could have promoted this. They would then supplement fat-solubles, minerals, etcetera, all the while never considering that they didn’t seem to need these supplements before.

Similar attitudes with hearth palpitations, hair loss, … sometimes someone seemed to get stuck in a particular framework (eg. OJ-milk), whether or not this was forum-imposed idk.

You’d see a person mention that they started having this or that problem in 2012, seemingly not acknowledging that that was when they started using the forum, and then they’d start using tobacco or hormones, an apparent reflection of an inadequacy of the original ideas.

There was a woman whose son/cousin got confusion, throughout the months she would occasionally mention him and there was no improvement, she then would talk about going to altitude, or other things she might have gotten from Peat’s work, never seemed to find a solution for him.

Occasionally I’d get a feedback mail along the lines of ‘ESTROGEN ISN’T BAD YOU DOUCHEBAGS I CURED MY HOT FLASHES WITH IT’.

Then the latest Vision&Acceptance article.

And who could answer all of IslandGirl’s embarrassing questions?

There are a lot of positive stories too, if only they'd shout as loud.






So from what I saw there was a possibility of visitors falling into an abyss of abstractions, accepting claims and subsequently ruining their health without anyone really being too aware of it, after a while they’d make a post telling people to leave the forum or that it’s all quackery.

I don’t think this is due to this or that person at all except maybe me as having made the forum, if I consider every person I saw on Peatarian they all have their story and none of them were as stiff as some of the scapegoat-seeking like to believe, still I ended up thinking people are better off moving to the more active platforms.

 

[Amazoniac]

This is why is worth having sections where people discuss their interests. If you want to discuss studies, there's a place for it; log your life, a place for it; praise your religion, same..
But those vague discussions the often arise in forums like this are mainly to engage in lighter subjects. Not everyone has a background in biology/chemistry/physiology and a lot of users seem lost, so it's much easier to bring subjects that are familiar and make a cult around them rather than explore the unfamiliar information.
All in all, it's better that cult discussions draw those who can't opinate on scientific subjects: they are easy to spot and easily avoidable; rather than having a bunch of misinterpretation being thrown at scientific information.

 

[uuy8778yyi]

so now the forum will start reccomending fish oil, kale smoothies, whey protein shakes ?

just to prove they aren't cultish