Pointless' Log

[Pointless]

Phenibut would most likely eliminate your hemorrhoids, also helps with stress and sleep. Works for me every-time. Any GABA agonist should help with that really.


I hope you're not hyperventilating. buteyko breathing or bag breathing is what you should look into.

Lysine seems to be great for antagonizing gut serotonin if cyproheptadine ever stops working for you.

Thanks for the input. I have an addictive personality, and I'm also worried about gradually reduced effectiveness of phenibut.

As for breathing, I breathe very slowly to the point of air hunger. This boosts my metabolism better than anything else. I honestly have not seen enough hard evidence for buteyko's methods, but if you have a citation, I would appreciate it. Doing Google research on breathing methods means wading through tons of BS.

 

[Dopamine]

Thanks for the input. I have an addictive personality, and I'm also worried about gradually reduced effectiveness of phenibut.

As for breathing, I breathe very slowly to the point of air hunger. This boosts my metabolism better than anything else. I honestly have not seen enough hard evidence for buteyko's methods, but if you have a citation, I would appreciate it. Doing Google research on breathing methods means wading through tons of BS.

Ah yes I would avoid phenibut if you have an addictive personality. I think Peat has spoken favorably of Buteyko method for raising CO2 but i'm not 100% sure. What you are doing sounds similar so if it is working I would keep at it.

 

[Pointless]

Is there a way to increase gaba systemically in a way that doesn't build tolerance?

 

[Pointless]

I just saw your suggestion of aspirin. It irritates my stomach, and I had a fistula, so I'm prone to intestinal lesions. I'm going to try solban while taking kuinone, but I dont want to take a lot.

 

[Dopamine]

Is there a way to increase gaba systemically in a way that doesn't build tolerance?

I think higher progesterone/allopregnanolone levels and lower estrogen will increase systemic GABA activity. Also a favorable amino acid profile (lots of glycine/gelatin). I will say that phenibut doesn't give me significant tolerance- it has worked every time and I have taken it near constantly for several months. Some of the effects do diminish a bit over time if you don't raise the dose. Niacinamide is a GABA agonist, Taurine is a GABA agonist, Theanine is a GABA agonist, Glycine acts similarly to GABA.

I just saw your suggestion of aspirin. It irritates my stomach, and I had a fistula, so I'm prone to intestinal lesions. I'm going to try solban while taking kuinone, but I dont want to take a lot.

I couldn't tolerate aspirin until I started taking it with glycine. Haidut posted about this:
Glycine virtually eliminates adverse GI effects of aspirin

Now I take 3g glycine with 1/2 aspirin before bed and my stomach is fine. You sound like you have more stomach problems then me right now though so do what feels right.

 

[tara]

I have an addictive personality, and I'm also worried about gradually reduced effectiveness of phenibut.

From what I've read here, you are wise to be wary of phenibut.

I honestly have not seen enough hard evidence for buteyko's methods, but if you have a citation, I would appreciate it.

I haven't found my way around his reorganised site, but this is where I found convincing information a few years ago.
www.normalbreathing.com/

 

[Pointless]

TyroMax
------------

I've been taking TyroMax lately. I started with just 1 drop. At first it made me really sleepy and tired, but I hear that some people get this effect when they take something that raises their metabolism. I made sure to fuel it with plenty of carbs and protein. Eventually this sleepiness went away, and it turned into a sort of adrenaline rush. I felt aggressive, irritated, and sometimes fearful.

Someone posted a Ray Peat quote about how the adrenergic reaction is from not ENOUGH thyroid. I wish I could find the quote, but the gist of it was that you have to increase the thyroid dose fast enough to compensate for the reduction in stress metabolism, or the body will produce adrenaline to make up for the lack of energy. At this point I was taking 1 drop 2-3x/day. I upped it to 2 drops 2x/day and 1 drop before bed, then eventually 2 drops 3x/day. I felt the same sleepiness I got when I first started TyroMax, but it eventually wore off. As I tracked my temperature, I noticed that it was going up during the day, but my waking temperature was going down. I would go up to 97.9 during the day but wake up with 96.5. I haven't had a temp that low in quite a few months.

Considering the bad results that other people have had with TyroMax and reported in the thread, like TSH going through the roof or going into hypothyroid state, I stopped with the TyroMax. I decided to get some T3 and T4 from a research chems website. When I experiment with those, I'll report on that.

Bag breathing
------------------

I wanted to see how bag breathing would affect my body temperature, so I did an experiment with rounds of bag breathing and taking my temperature. I had a meal of milk, salted apple juice, rice, oysters, meat, coconut oil, and ketchup, but mostly milk and apple juice. I also took some of the usual supplements. I started at 97.4. This is about normal for me. I made sure to take my temp and then again 5 minutes later, and they both tested 97.4, so I know that it wasn't changing from the meal or from the cold drinks.

I then started with rounds of bag breathing, about 1 minute each time, and checked my temperature afterwards. Here's my log:

starting temp: 97.4
R1: ~1:00
Temp: 97.6
R2: 1:00
Temp: 97.6
R3: 1:00
Temp: 97.7
Waited ~5:00 here
Temp: 97.8
R4: 1:02
Temp: 97.7
R5: 1:00
Temp: 97.5
Temp: 97.6
Waited ~7:00 here
Temp: 97.0
R6: 4:00
Temp: 97.3
Temp: 97.1
Waited ~15:00 here
Temp: 97.1

As you can see, my temperature rose for the first few rounds and continued rising after I stopped. Then, as I got to round 4, it started going down, even below my baseline. I did a long round of 4 minutes, and it made my temp go up a bit before going back down to 97.1. It stayed at 97.1 for a while.

My conclusion is that, for me in the hypothyroid state I'm in now, it's best to stick with 1 or 2 rounds of a minute each about 3 times a day as Ray Peat suggested. Right again...

 

[Pointless]

More thoughts on TyroMax: It really has helped. After discontinuing it, I'm getting cold sores in my mouth, cold shivers after eating big meals, and looser stools from poorer digestion. It definitely helps during the day, but the downward decline in waking temperature worries me? Those who have had success with NDT, am I on the right track with TyroMax, or is t3/t4 the way to go?

And for those that have read this far, wow, you must really like me! Lol Help me titrate my dose of t3/t4. I'm getting them separate as liquid. I will be able to do very small adjustments in dose and take them separately. I would like to limit myself to 3 doses for convenience, but 4 might be doable.

Should I take t3 all day and t3/t4 at night like Ray Peat? Should I start with just t4? What dose should I start with? How fast should I change? What should I go on? What ratio is best? I'm kind of confused, actually. Even pointing me to a resource to educate myself would help with this.

 

[postman]

Pork is not a peaty food at all.

 

[DaveFoster]

Keep us updated on your T4/T3 combo journey. I just ordered some Blue Sky Peptide T3 myself.

Also, postman is correct. Pork is less than ideal. Beef or lamb would be better.

 

[Pointless]

Pork is not a peaty food at all.

Thanks. What about chicken? It has a worse PUFA ratio but lower fat overall. Edit: Never mind, I'll go with beef. I didn't know it was so low in PUFAs.

Keep us updated on your T4/T3 combo journey. I just ordered some Blue Sky Peptide T3 myself.

Also, postman is correct. Pork is less than ideal. Beef or lamb would be better.

I think I'm going to dose T3 throughout the day and T4 at night like RP does and see how it works out for me.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Mate, even Peat eats bacon sometimes. Just fry everything in coconut oil.

 

[postman]

When Peat eats bacon he fries it first without any extra fat, then he drains as much bacon fat as he can using kitchen paper, then he refries the bacon in coconut oil.

Personally with my health problems even the smallest amount of PUFAs **** me up, that means no pork, chicken, or even eggs for me. If you want a replace chicken with something similar but with less pufa, try turkey breast. Anyways beef, sheep, wild game, and low fat seafood are the best. But yea it all depends on your current state of health and how sensitive you are, it might not make a difference for you.

 

[Pointless]

I bought a 300 watt incandescent bulb. After basking in that heavenly glow for a few hours, my temp went up to 98.1, and my pulse up to 88. I've only seen my temp this high once in years and years, and my pulse has never been so good. And this is with no thyroid and reduced supplementation. Whoop whoop

BTW the pork I was eating was a holdover from my previous diet. I changed things gradually, and I held off on changing to beef because of the cost. I think everyone agrees that pork is not healthy eaten every day like I was. Thanks for your suggestions.

 

[tara]

I bought a 300 watt incandescent bulb. After basking in that heavenly glow for a few hours, my temp went up to 98.1, and my pulse up to 88. I've only seen my temp this high once in years and years, and my pulse has never been so good. And this is with no thyroid and reduced supplementation. Whoop whoop

whoop :)

 

[Pointless]

I started taking Acetazolamide. It's called Iopar. It's 250 mg sustained release. I took one a few hours ago. The first thing I noticed, within a few hours, is sort of nootropic effects. Brain fog lifted, and I felt focused and clear-minded. Then after doing some hard labor, I noticed how incredibly warm I was. After 6 hours, I took my temperature, and it was only 97.7. It must be really increasing the circulation to my extremities! Also helping is the huge amount of sugar I ate today, maybe 500 grams. I live in Florida, and I can get 1000 calories of guava paste for 99 cents. Ingredients: guava paste, sugar, citric acid acidulant. Whoop!

Also, I've been slowing my breathing down while sitting under a bright incandescent light to get more CO2.

How do people feel about tamarind juice? Is that good for insulin sensitivity?

 

[EIRE24]

I bought a 300 watt incandescent bulb. After basking in that heavenly glow for a few hours, my temp went up to 98.1, and my pulse up to 88. I've only seen my temp this high once in years and years, and my pulse has never been so good. And this is with no thyroid and reduced supplementation. Whoop whoop

BTW the pork I was eating was a holdover from my previous diet. I changed things gradually, and I held off on changing to beef because of the cost. I think everyone agrees that pork is not healthy eaten every day like I was. Thanks for your suggestions.

Where did you purchase the bulb from?

 

[Pointless]

I got one at tractor supply company and the other at ace hardware.

 

[Pointless]

Keep us updated on your T4/T3 combo journey. I just ordered some Blue Sky Peptide T3 myself.

Well, here is my experience with T3 and T4 separately so far.

I'm using this information from Ray Peat as a guideline:

"An effective way to use supplements is to take a combination T4-T3 dose, e.g., 40 mcg of T4 and 10 mcg of T3 once a day, and to use a few mcg of T3 at other times in the day. Keeping a 14-day chart of pulse rate and temperature allows you to see whether the dose is producing the desired response. If the figures aren’t increasing at all after a few days, the dose can be increased, until a gradual daily increment can be seen, moving toward the goal at the rate of about 1/14 per day.”"

Ray Peat, PhD on Thyroid, Temperature, Pulse, and TSH – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

My T3 and T4 comes in separate bottles from USA Peptide. It seemed a bit more reputable than the other sites, and Blue Sky was out of T4, so I decided to give it a shot. Each is dosed at 200 mcg/mL. Assuming .05 mL/drop, which is standard, this would make 10 mcg. I suspect that the glycerol solution is a bit more viscous than water, which would produce larger drops. Since there's no way of knowing for sure the concentration, I am just feeling things out.

The first day I tried whole drops of the T3, and sometimes partial drops by dabbing it against my skin and estimating the amount. I was getting bad paresthesia in my feet, so I think I overdid it. But my temp was going up. At one point, I measured it at 98.3, which is as high as it's been in a loooong time. That night, I tried 4 drops of T4 (40+ mcg) with 1 drop of T3 (10+ mcg).

The next morning my temp was 96.5, which wasn't that great. The next morning with the same protocol, I was down to 96.1 I was worried with the paresthesia and decreasing temps, that I was having problems with rT3 or low conversion of T4 to T3. That day I was doing half drops of T3, and after a 9-hour shift at work, I measured my temp at 98.1. This was encouraging because my T3 could sustain high-ish temps all day at work.

That night I tried applying topically. I got paresthesia, and my temp the next morning was 95.7. So it's doing -something-. lol

Over the next few days, I continued with partial drops of T3 (~5 mcg) during the day and 4 drops T4 (40+ mcg) + 1 drop T3 (10+ mcg) before bed. I noticed at the end of my work shift I would get adrenaline/hypoglycemic feeling (aggression, anxiety, dysphoria) and sometimes paresthesia. My morning temps have been hovering in the 96s, with daytime temps below 98.

This might be interesting for some people. Another night, I tried 4 drops T4 with a partial drop of T3 and got paresthesia. Another half drop of T3 relieved that.

From the Ray Peat quote, I expected my temps to either stay the same or increase slowly, but it seems to be doing the opposite for me. Since lower doses don't stop the fall in temps, my working theory at this point is that the thyroid hormone is uncovering hypo symptoms covered up by stress hormones. I'm also looking for other factors that may prevent me from using thyroid hormone correctly. Magnesium seems to help a lot, but there are diminishing returns with higher doses. Zinc? (I take 50 mg/day of zinc. I think I'm still deficient but I refuse to take more) Selenium? (I eat seafood and eggs. I have 200 mcg capsules, but I don't want to take them for fear of too much selenium)

I was doing better with TyroMax, honestly, but the only reason I changed over was because of the falling temps.

 

[DaveFoster]

Well, here is my experience with T3 and T4 separately so far.

I'm using this information from Ray Peat as a guideline:

"An effective way to use supplements is to take a combination T4-T3 dose, e.g., 40 mcg of T4 and 10 mcg of T3 once a day, and to use a few mcg of T3 at other times in the day. Keeping a 14-day chart of pulse rate and temperature allows you to see whether the dose is producing the desired response. If the figures aren’t increasing at all after a few days, the dose can be increased, until a gradual daily increment can be seen, moving toward the goal at the rate of about 1/14 per day.”"

Ray Peat, PhD on Thyroid, Temperature, Pulse, and TSH – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

My T3 and T4 comes in separate bottles from USA Peptide. It seemed a bit more reputable than the other sites, and Blue Sky was out of T4, so I decided to give it a shot. Each is dosed at 200 mcg/mL. Assuming .05 mL/drop, which is standard, this would make 10 mcg. I suspect that the glycerol solution is a bit more viscous than water, which would produce larger drops. Since there's no way of knowing for sure the concentration, I am just feeling things out.

The first day I tried whole drops of the T3, and sometimes partial drops by dabbing it against my skin and estimating the amount. I was getting bad paresthesia in my feet, so I think I overdid it. But my temp was going up. At one point, I measured it at 98.3, which is as high as it's been in a loooong time. That night, I tried 4 drops of T4 (40+ mcg) with 1 drop of T3 (10+ mcg).

The next morning my temp was 96.5, which wasn't that great. The next morning with the same protocol, I was down to 96.1 I was worried with the paresthesia and decreasing temps, that I was having problems with rT3 or low conversion of T4 to T3. That day I was doing half drops of T3, and after a 9-hour shift at work, I measured my temp at 98.1. This was encouraging because my T3 could sustain high-ish temps all day at work.

That night I tried applying topically. I got paresthesia, and my temp the next morning was 95.7. So it's doing -something-. lol

Over the next few days, I continued with partial drops of T3 (~5 mcg) during the day and 4 drops T4 (40+ mcg) + 1 drop T3 (10+ mcg) before bed. I noticed at the end of my work shift I would get adrenaline/hypoglycemic feeling (aggression, anxiety, dysphoria) and sometimes paresthesia. My morning temps have been hovering in the 96s, with daytime temps below 98.

This might be interesting for some people. Another night, I tried 4 drops T4 with a partial drop of T3 and got paresthesia. Another half drop of T3 relieved that.

From the Ray Peat quote, I expected my temps to either stay the same or increase slowly, but it seems to be doing the opposite for me. Since lower doses don't stop the fall in temps, my working theory at this point is that the thyroid hormone is uncovering hypo symptoms covered up by stress hormones. I'm also looking for other factors that may prevent me from using thyroid hormone correctly. Magnesium seems to help a lot, but there are diminishing returns with higher doses. Zinc? (I take 50 mg/day of zinc. I think I'm still deficient but I refuse to take more) Selenium? (I eat seafood and eggs. I have 200 mcg capsules, but I don't want to take them for fear of too much selenium)

I was doing better with TyroMax, honestly, but the only reason I changed over was because of the falling temps.

Thanks for the detailed reply. I think the transition period is one of the hardest things to deal with when trying to correct your body's metabolic rate. Nothing feel's worse than undercutting your energy production by lowering stress hormones. Even worse; you overshoot by taking too much caffeine and/or thyroid and you trigger drastic changes in adrenaline (or a thyroid storm in some cases).