Potato = Good

[Peater Piper]

@tyw I agree that AGEs are still an unknown variable, and I've read (and listened to) Chris Masterjohn's work on the topic. I still think it's safer to err on the side of not excessively spiking glucose, and I consume a lot of polyphenols, which according to Chris may reduce the amount of glycation. My main interest in this is that my post prandial numbers suck, despite being lean and having a HOMA score below 1 (so I'm very insulin sensitive, at least when fasted). I suspect my beta cells are slowly failing, but multiple doctors have refused to check for autoimmunity because I've managed to keep my A1C below the prediabetic threshold. So basically I'm stuck trying to eat higher carb to maintain as much insulin sensitivity as possible, while taking advantage of whatever little tricks I can like coffee/tea/ginger/cinnamon and walking after meals (and soon some B-vitamins), or eating low carb, becoming insulin resistant around the clock but with very little rise in blood sugar after meals. Either way it's probably just biding time until I end up on insulin.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion, it's been fun. :)

 

[Westside PUFAs]

In any case, I refuse to draw any conclusions about what foods were good or bad in ancient history. All I see are people taking advantage of whatever was available to them at the time, and then making discoveries later, and for no apparent reason at all. (the Ancient Chinese discovery stories are always the most hilarious ... "how did u discover Chinese medicine?" --> "some god told me")

We don't have to. Just study physiology and function. And study those who you know what they eat like friends, family, and of course yourself. Or look in the shopping cart of the obese person at the market. And the food court at the mall.

 

[lollipop]

Or look in the shopping cart of the obese person at the market.

My husband and I did this the other day at Target when we were buying our cleaning supplies: full of processed carbs, canned foods like beans, packages of donuts, cookies, crackers, white "bread", almost no protein except skim milk, basically no fresh foods, frozen pizzas, waffles, and on and on. SCARY

 

[Westside PUFAs]

My husband and I did this the other day at Target when we were buying our cleaning supplies: full of processed carbs, canned foods like beans, packages of donuts, cookies, crackers, white "bread", almost no protein except skim milk, basically no fresh foods, frozen pizzas, waffles, and on and on. SCARY

A lot of fat in those "carbs." Skim milk but frozen pizza has full fat cheese and oil in the dough. That's not including all of the meals they eat outside of grocery shopping.

 

[lollipop]

A lot of fat in those "carbs." Skim milk but frozen pizza has full fat cheese and oil in the dough. That's not including all of the meals they eat outside of grocery shopping.

Totally!

 

[Parsifal]

@tyw Since we are talking about starch, iron seems quite high in some starch, rice for example. Is this less absorbed and dangerous since it is in the form of non-heme iron?

 

[YuraCZ]

Apple juice and milk right now.

@tyw Since we are talking about starch, iron seems quite high in some starch, rice for example. Is this less absorbed and dangerous since it is in the form of non-heme iron?

Iron from rice? Yes it is useless..

 

[James IV]

Eating low carb doesn't make you insulin resistant. In fact doing it correctly can have the opposite effect. long term ketosis or ketogenic diets can cause different degrees of IR.

 

[Ewelina]

I tried to reintroduce potatoes after a break last Saturday with disastrous consequences. I've been eating glutinous rice for about 2 months with some success so I thought I would try waxy potatoes to add variety to my diet. I bought Anya potatoes which are advertised as waxy on the package, however they turned out to be very floury. Nonetheless I ate some. The same evening my nose started being blocked and very cold. Next morning I woke up with swollen knees, anxiety, slight depression and mild headache. It could be nightshade allergy or too high levels of solanine or general endotoxemia.

There is an article about nightshades on weston price. Some things are interesting.
Nightshades - Weston A Price

 

[InChristAlone]

Yeah I don't tolerate a lot of potatoes in my diet, it will cause joint pain after a few days. Others starches are fine.

 

[Peatish Ninja]

Something to remember is that when you introduce a foreign food into your diet, your gut must then re-adapt to regulate absorption of that new food.

 

[Parsifal]

Something to remember is that when you introduce a foreign food into your diet, your gut must then re-adapt to regulate absorption of that new food.

Why didn't I have problems when reintroducing meat and fruits but just with starch (even with no fat at all in my whole diet)?

 

[Peater Piper]

Eating low carb doesn't make you insulin resistant. In fact doing it correctly can have the opposite effect. long term ketosis or ketogenic diets can cause different degrees of IR.

Are you lumping low carb and ketogenic diets together, or keeping them separate? Do you think low carb can improve insulin sensitivity even without weight loss?

 

[Peatish Ninja]

Why didn't I have problems when reintroducing meat and fruits but just with starch (even with no fat at all in my whole diet)?

Well what you say is generally vague. How long were you away from fruit and meat? Why just starch only? How long did you stay on starch? Etc...

The microbiota is a cultured bacterial superstructure that is wholly built on consistent foods transiting through the body.

To break down and restructure the microbiota requires a discipline of cultured eating in order to build a cultured gut. Or what I like to call [URL='http://"Nutritional Coherency"']"Nutritional Coherency".[/URL]
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/diversity-in-diet-may-be-hurting-us-all.9039/

 

[James IV]

Are you lumping low carb and ketogenic diets together, or keeping them separate? Do you think low carb can improve insulin sensitivity even without weight loss?

No sir. I am stating that eating low carb (which is subjective) is not the same as a ketogenic diet, which is not the same as eating for ketosis. Although sometimes the nuance is lost when these terms are being discussed in the "health" community.

And I think energy deficit and its accompanying fat loss (not necessarily weight loss) is a primary factor in increasing insulin sensitivity in overweight individuals. And for many people appropriate carbohydrate intake is a crucial factor in making a deficit attainable/sustainable.

 

[tara]

Or look in the shopping cart of the obese person at the market.

I don't think this is any kind of objective.
My shopping cart at the supermarket does not always contain a balanced diet by any means. Some weeks I stock up on chocolate when it's on sale, or butter, or a dozen large bottles of juice. Or dried fruit. Sometimes there's a disproportionate amount of commercial cereal and biscuits - not because we eat a lot of them, but because I'm stocking up on them that day. Other times I'm just stopping in for the urgent perishables: eggs, milk, bread, bananas. I can imagine that people could judge some trolley-worths as problematic, if they were assuming that was all my family ate. (Whether I'm lean, obese, or in between, the judgement wouldn't be any more accurate.)
As it happens, I buy a lot of my food at fruit and vege shops/markets or butcher, so no one observer would see the whole range.

 

[DaveFoster]

My Dad lived on potatoes, milk, olive oil, lots of coffee, clams and oysters, and occasional potroast/stews with potatoes, onions, carrots and the like. He got Alzheimer's at 78.

Anyway, I can't tolerate potatoes or starch at all, and neither can a lot of people. They're sub-optimal, but far better than other starches.

Endotoxin and gut issues are likely causing me a great deal of suffering. Potatoes are not plausible.

 

[YuraCZ]

sweet potatoes are by far the best in my opinion aka Okinawa diet. But I have extreme gas from them + they are really expensive here. So for me buckwheat is the best complex carb source by far. I soak them and then cook. They are extremely easy to digest. They are really nutritious( only low in calcium, but other minerals, proteins, fiber content is impresive). Buckwheat Nutrition Facts & Calories I'm not sure how much anti nutrients they have after soaking and cooking, which can be only problem with buckwheat. Btw buckwheat is supposed to be a fruit seed. Which is really interesting heh..

 

[Westside PUFAs]

My Dad lived on potatoes, milk, olive oil, lots of coffee, clams and oysters, and occasional potroast/stews with potatoes, onions, carrots and the like. He got Alzheimer's at 78.

Anyway, I can't tolerate potatoes or starch at all, and neither can a lot of people. They're sub-optimal, but far better than other starches.

Endotoxin and gut issues are likely causing me a great deal of suffering. Potatoes are not plausible.

78 is enough time.

It could have been toxic metals from all the shellfish and/or byproducts of the olive oil. Or just aging and he would have gotten it regardless of diet.

 

[YuraCZ]

78 is enough time.

It could have been toxic metals from all the shellfish and/or byproducts of the olive oil. Or just aging and he would have gotten it regardless of diet.

which is?