Processing the change. Moving forward….

[Peatful]

Hello RPFamily-

Goal:
A safe place to process.


To let it out
Be therapeutic
Rebuilding
And hopefully insightful



Ray was an altruistic genius
I always considered the forum as an extension of him

With that:
For me, this abrupt change really did a number on me

Some may say it wasn’t abrupt
Nor that big of a shift
But I beg to differ

I expected Ray to die
But I felt that the forum would be a constant

To experience the ethos shift upset me terribly


But im still here
Because of not only Ray
But because of the great members
Whom create great content on this forum

Moving forward for me is to lurk and learn
To discern and research

And to know
Just like our worldview differed pre Covid
That things do change overnight
And the people around you are of the utmost importance


More to say
But ill leave it here

Please
No fear of banning

I think honestly stating your piece-
Will bring peace?

Just don’t be a dicck

 

[Peatful]

Ah
Interesting

 

[Peater]

He seemed like a kind man who had some interesting thoughts on metabolism. Probably the closest I've come to having a "wise sage". Maybe he did get some things wrong. The one thing that must not be allowed to be buried is that he was right about seed oils and the PUFAs. I think he was one of the earliest writers saying this. Certainly in the case of fish oil. Some health conscious people might have avoided them just because they were processed, he explained WHY they should be avoided.

 

[Peatful]

He seemed like a kind man who had some interesting thoughts on metabolism. Probably the closest I've come to having a "wise sage". Maybe he did get some things wrong. The one thing that must not be allowed to be buried is that he was right about seed oils and the PUFAs. I think he was one of the earliest writers saying this. Certainly in the case of fish oil. Some health conscious people might have avoided them just because they were processed, he explained WHY they should be avoided.

Thx for your reply

I guess my OP was poorly worded

Im inviting people to come share their thoughts on the shift on this forum
Moving toward more - what I consider
As anti Peat concepts

Certainly
Questioning him

Ex: vitamin A toxic.
Progesterone- meh.
Estrogen- ok.

More folks voicing a kinda Ray was wrong
“BecaUsE oF hIS diET” etc

Idk
Maybe that’s what you are addressing

 

[GreekDemiGod]

It’s important to realise that this forum is no longer the only community where Peat ideas can be discussed. There’s Twitter, there’s also the new forum.

 

[InChristAlone]

Is it a safe space to let out my resentments too? I know it feels disrespectful to hear someone say his 'diet' harmed them. But I truly truly wish I hadn't followed the Ray Peat groups. I could have just stopped at realizing yes carbs are good, but maybe don't over do it on sugar and don't forgo starch if I was doing fine on it. And maybe don't give yourself freedom to overdo stimulants as long as it had plenty of sugar. And just stopped at making sure my thyroid health was good via stress reduction and using heat lamps. Maybe not by using thyroid. And maybe I should have stopped after hearing that cod liver oil was in fact poisonous. That was great to hear as I was lied to by the Weston A. Price Foundation. But following Ray Peat practitioners and downloading every ebook that came out (including Danny Roddy's) and buying Haidut products. Maybe that was just too far.

My obsessive personality plays into why I have resentment towards the community. Yes. But as a community we needed to do better not to become cult like about what food to eat or what food not to eat. I think the community is actually balancing out. Many are realizing they overdid many things and underdid other things. Balance is always needed in the body and lifestyle. Somehow Ray was able to have his own balance with lots of coffee and milk, but many will not have that balance doing the same. I'm so glad the community is less willing to prescribe this to everyone. (And if they don't tolerate it to suggest antibiotics!) Glad that's over.

The sentiment of Ray is still here. The ability to explore all angles of health.

 

[Peatful]

It’s important to realise that this forum is no longer the only community where Peat ideas can be discussed. There’s Twitter, there’s also the new forum.

Thx
This is the shift im referring to

Where do you see the most “understanding” or um…”adherence” or correct application to his work?
Meaning where folks read him
His newsletters
His books

Do you have an opinion on this?

 

[Peatful]

Is it a safe space to let out my resentments too? I know it feels disrespectful to hear someone say his 'diet' harmed them. But I truly truly wish I hadn't followed the Ray Peat groups. I could have just stopped at realizing yes carbs are good, but maybe don't over do it on sugar and don't forgo starch if I was doing fine on it. And maybe don't give yourself freedom to overdo stimulants as long as it had plenty of sugar. And just stopped at making sure my thyroid health was good via stress reduction and using heat lamps. Maybe not by using thyroid. And maybe I should have stopped after hearing that cod liver oil was in fact poisonous. That was great to hear as I was lied to by the Weston A. Price Foundation. But following Ray Peat practitioners and downloading every ebook that came out (including Danny Roddy's) and buying Haidut products. Maybe that was just too far.

My obsessive personality plays into why I have resentment towards the community. Yes. But as a community we needed to do better not to become cult like about what food to eat or what food not to eat. I think the community is actually balancing out. Many are realizing they overdid many things and underdid other things. Balance is always needed in the body and lifestyle. Somehow Ray was able to have his own balance with lots of coffee and milk, but many will not have that balance doing the same. I'm so glad the community is less willing to prescribe this to everyone. (And if they don't tolerate it to suggest antibiotics!) Glad that's over.

The sentiment of Ray is still here. The ability to explore all angles of health.

Yes. Of course.

To whom do you resent?
Oh
I see further down
The community

Because your journey to me sounds extremely normal.
Try shtt.
See what works.
What doesn’t.
And adjust.


I don’t see it as a balance personally
I see it as moving away from some of his essentials
Which makes me sad
Probably because of the misunderstanding
Because
What many here say
Really perplexes me

I see how the community could indeed push folks in the wrong way
It is a heavy supplement focused forum as well
But
When I read Ray
I just don’t see the confusion

Again
Thx for speaking up
You represent many folks here I believe

 

[Nick]

I studied Ray for ten years, reading his essays, newsletters and listening to his interviews.

As I see it, Ray's practical advice failed me. But usually in his essays, the practical advice was like an afterthought in the last 2 paragraphs. The first 90% of most of his articles was all theory and philosophy, and that is where I found all the brilliant insight that I still hold to be of the utmost importance.

This seems like the best place for me to share my criticism of the diet & supplement approach derived from Ray: because I am criticizing with a foundation in Ray's synthesis of bioenergetics.

Also, if a number of people have problems with a certain approach, most who abandon it will just dissapear from the dicussion. But at some point it becomes useful for them to voice their criticism and describe their experiences both for intellectual growth of the community and to serve as a warning. What better place for this than the orginal point of discussion?

 

[Peatful]

I studied Ray for ten years, reading his essays, newsletters and listening to his interviews.

As I see it, Ray's practical advice failed me. But usually in his essays, the practical advice was like an afterthought in the last 2 paragraphs. The first 90% of most of his articles was all theory and philosophy, and that is where I found all the brilliant insight that I still hold to be of the utmost importance.

This seems like the best place for me to share my criticism of the diet & supplement approach derived from Ray: because I am criticizing with a foundation in Ray's synthesis of bioenergetics.

Also, if a number of people have problems with a certain approach, most who abandon it will just dissapear from the dicussion. But at some point it becomes useful for them to voice their criticism and describe their experiences both for intellectual growth of the community and to serve as a warning. What better place for this than the orginal point of discussion?

Excellent

Discussion is healthy and needed
I agree

My concern lies with a shift
Based on misunderstanding?

It took me years and years to
A- just figure out WHAT was wrong with me
B- more years to fix it

It was years of trial and error
More error for sure


I was never looking at Ray as my healer
But
Someone who offered me the truth

It was up to me to heal myself
That’s on me

 

[Peater]

Is it a safe space to let out my resentments too? I know it feels disrespectful to hear someone say his 'diet' harmed them. But I truly truly wish I hadn't followed the Ray Peat groups.

I don't think anyone should be able to stop you saying that - it's your opinion based on your experiences. I feel the same about veganism, yet even that came with some good points to go on with - learning about nutrition, and how to cook.

Ray was in a no win position in a way as people say "He died early, wasn't very fit" but then the alternatives included zyzz and Rich Piana if you're after aesthetics, and "natural" health gurus who are on test, HGH, HCG etc.

From there it can also be said "So who was the RP diet FOR?", and although the cliche answer is there was no RP diet, there was in a way, unless you saw him as...a pleasant man who had some interesting thoughts on metabolism.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I could have just stopped at realizing yes carbs are good, but maybe don't over do it on sugar and don't forgo starch if I was doing fine on it. And maybe don't give yourself freedom to overdo stimulants as long as it had plenty of sugar.

I think the mistake we tend to make is making radical changes and not listening to our bodies. We lose touch with ourselves.
Just because carbs/ sugar generally have a pro-thyroid, anti-stress effect, doesn’t mean we have to start eating sugar liberally, whether from natural or processed sources.
Perhaps sometimes slight shifts/ adjustments are warranted, and not radical ones.
Just because fiber and starch are endotoxin promoting, it doesn’t mean that cutting them from our diet completely might be the wisest option.

 

[InChristAlone]

I think the mistake we tend to make is making radical changes and not listening to our bodies. We lose touch with ourselves.
Just because carbs/ sugar generally have a pro-thyroid, anti-stress effect, doesn’t mean we have to start eating sugar liberally, whether from natural or processed sources.
Perhaps sometimes slight shifts/ adjustments are warranted, and not radical ones.
Just because fiber and starch are endotoxin promoting, it doesn’t mean that cutting them from our diet completely might be the wisest option.

This reply is what the community needs!!! It wasn't there for so many yrs. I've been around a long time! People were downing Mexican coke like it was gold. Our famous @haidut drank Pepsi and ate cheese sticks.

 

[Peater]

This reply is what the community needs!!! It wasn't there for so many yrs. I've been around a long time! People were downing Mexican coke like it was gold. Our famous @haidut drank Pepsi and ate cheese sticks.

The thing is though, people did used to be slimmer and drank full sugar Coke. Is it purely down to quantities, or something else. The flip side is of course, all the people that ate thinking they were getting all the nutrients and boosting their metabolism and got fat.

 

[Dolomite]

Excellent

Discussion is healthy and needed
I agree

My concern lies with a shift
Based on misunderstanding?

It took me years and years to
A- just figure out WHAT was wrong with me
B- more years to fix it

It was years of trial and error
More error for sure


I was never looking at Ray as my healer
But
Someone who offered me the truth

It was up to me to heal myself
That’s on me

What was the truth Ray Peat offered that helped you heal yourself?

 

[Peatful]

What was the truth Ray Peat offered that helped you heal yourself?

Too many to remember

Here are some:

Ray Peat, PhD on Low Blood Sugar & Stress Reaction – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Serotonin: Effects in disease, aging and inflammation

In the early 1950s, several people recognized that the symptoms produced by administering an excess of serotonin were similar to those experienced by people with intestinal tumors called argentaffinomas or carcinoid tumors, which are usually in the small intestine or appendix.

raypeat.com

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/pdf/Estrogen-Receptors-what-do-they-explain.pdf

Meat physiology, stress, and degenerative physiology.

Considerable amounts of some chemicals, such as sodium citrate, are allowed to add to the weight of the meat. The use of ozone and hydrogen peroxide to deodorize meat causes instantaneous oxidative changes, including lipid peroxidation and protein carbonyl formation, as well as increasing water...

raypeat.com

Glucose and sucrose for diabetes.

Since the first doctor noticed, hundreds of years ago, that the urine of a diabetic patient tasted sweet, it has been common to call the condition the sugar disease, or sugar diabetes, and since nothing was known about physiological chemistry, it was commonly believed that eating too much sugar...

raypeat.com

Regeneration and degeneration - Types of inflammation change with aging

Older ways of understanding aging and degenerative disease are now returning to the foreground. The developmental interactions of the organism with its environment, and the interactions of its cells, tissues, and organs with each other, have again become the focus of biological aging research.

raypeat.com

The Great Fish Oil Experiment

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Progesterone Summaries - Progesterone Deceptions - Progesterone Supplementation - Dosage of Progesterone

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Progesterone Summaries - Progesterone Deceptions - Progesterone Supplementation - Dosage of Progesterone

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Preventing and treating cancer with progesterone.

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Water: swelling, tension, pain, fatigue, aging

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

That’s enough for now


I’ll add
When I first read them
I didn’t understand

I had to unlearn so to speak
Then experiment
Then
Then I started to understand!
And adjust
And read and research more
And experiment
And so on and so on

 

[InChristAlone]

The thing is though, people did used to be slimmer and drank full sugar Coke. Is it purely down to quantities, or something else. The flip side is of course, all the people that ate thinking they were getting all the nutrients and boosting their metabolism and got fat.

Yeah my diet growing up contained a lot of sugar and I was slim. I am not slim anymore, but I wouldn't say I'm overweight. I have the right amount for what I've been through. Maybe we can tolerate that much sugar when we are young. How many 60 yr olds are still downing the soda and remain healthy? Maybe it's fattening when it's combined with a high vitamin A diet. Or highish saturated fat diet. I don't think being 10% body fat in older age is good either. Fat is protective. It stores things so we don't get sick.

 

[Peatress]

Is it a safe space to let out my resentments too? I know it feels disrespectful to hear someone say his 'diet' harmed them. But I truly truly wish I hadn't followed the Ray Peat groups. I could have just stopped at realizing yes carbs are good, but maybe don't over do it on sugar and don't forgo starch if I was doing fine on it. And maybe don't give yourself freedom to overdo stimulants as long as it had plenty of sugar. And just stopped at making sure my thyroid health was good via stress reduction and using heat lamps. Maybe not by using thyroid. And maybe I should have stopped after hearing that cod liver oil was in fact poisonous. That was great to hear as I was lied to by the Weston A. Price Foundation. But following Ray Peat practitioners and downloading every ebook that came out (including Danny Roddy's) and buying Haidut products. Maybe that was just too far.

My obsessive personality plays into why I have resentment towards the community. Yes. But as a community we needed to do better not to become cult like about what food to eat or what food not to eat. I think the community is actually balancing out. Many are realizing they overdid many things and underdid other things. Balance is always needed in the body and lifestyle. Somehow Ray was able to have his own balance with lots of coffee and milk, but many will not have that balance doing the same. I'm so glad the community is less willing to prescribe this to everyone. (And if they don't tolerate it to suggest antibiotics!) Glad that's over.

The sentiment of Ray is still here. The ability to explore all angles of health.

I can understand why you must feel resentful for being mislead. But you were not mislead by Dr.Peat. Like I said in my post to you yesterday you were doing a lot of things that he said not to do.

 

[InChristAlone]

I can understand why you must feel resentful for being mislead. But you were not mislead by Dr.Peat. Like I said in my post to you yesterday you were doing a lot of things that he said not to do.

I wouldn't say he said don't do it, just that he would have wanted everyone to get in enough nutrition. And I thought I could cover my bases with milk, meat, and juice, but apparently not. It didn't seem to matter how much milk or OJ I drank. It didn't ever feel nourishing. Well maybe a little, sometimes it felt like I was a baby again and needing to warm up my milk every hour or I'd die lol.

 

[Dolomite]

Too many to remember

Here are some:

Ray Peat, PhD on Low Blood Sugar & Stress Reaction – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Serotonin: Effects in disease, aging and inflammation

In the early 1950s, several people recognized that the symptoms produced by administering an excess of serotonin were similar to those experienced by people with intestinal tumors called argentaffinomas or carcinoid tumors, which are usually in the small intestine or appendix.

raypeat.com

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/pdf/Estrogen-Receptors-what-do-they-explain.pdf

Meat physiology, stress, and degenerative physiology.

Considerable amounts of some chemicals, such as sodium citrate, are allowed to add to the weight of the meat. The use of ozone and hydrogen peroxide to deodorize meat causes instantaneous oxidative changes, including lipid peroxidation and protein carbonyl formation, as well as increasing water...

raypeat.com

Glucose and sucrose for diabetes.

Since the first doctor noticed, hundreds of years ago, that the urine of a diabetic patient tasted sweet, it has been common to call the condition the sugar disease, or sugar diabetes, and since nothing was known about physiological chemistry, it was commonly believed that eating too much sugar...

raypeat.com

Regeneration and degeneration - Types of inflammation change with aging

Older ways of understanding aging and degenerative disease are now returning to the foreground. The developmental interactions of the organism with its environment, and the interactions of its cells, tissues, and organs with each other, have again become the focus of biological aging research.

raypeat.com

The Great Fish Oil Experiment

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Progesterone Summaries - Progesterone Deceptions - Progesterone Supplementation - Dosage of Progesterone

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Progesterone Summaries - Progesterone Deceptions - Progesterone Supplementation - Dosage of Progesterone

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Preventing and treating cancer with progesterone.

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Water: swelling, tension, pain, fatigue, aging

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

That’s enough for now


I’ll add
When I first read them
I didn’t understand

I had to unlearn so to speak
Then experiment
Then
Then I started to understand!
And adjust
And read and research more
And experiment
And so on and so on

I was hoping for something more specific. I read all of Ray Peat's articles in 2006. Thank you for your effort.