Pruritus (itching) And Anxiety

[Peater]

I would really appreciate some advice if any is available. I normally just browse these boards and get on with applying as many 'Peat' principles as I can - and have been pleasantly surprised and pleased that cheese is not constipating when eating grated carrot too. (I eat cheese made with unpasteurised milk)

I have been suffering from somewhat random but intense pruritus for some months now (Approx June last year) I do not believe it is caused by anything 'Peaty', and have had blood tests for that can back negative but cannot give any numbers as here in the UK we do not get told results as a matter of course. I believe they tested liver function as part of these.

To give an idea I have eliminated over time eggs, kabanos, melatonin, chamomile tea, but everytime I think I have it sorted, it returns. Dead sea salt baths do not help. At first I thought it was related to quitting smoking (I was not using patches) but I even started again just to see if that stopped it!

Now, I have had 'anxiety' of various descriptions for years and deal with it as best I can. I am actually less bothered by that than the itching, but now the worst of the itching seems to tie in with a strong rapid heart beat and racing anxiety which is genuinely scary.

At the time it started I had started riding horses but apart from a 'speckly' rash confined to my back I have no signs of any mite or parasites like scabies.

I have stopped supplements also, but have taken Vitamin D, boron, ZMA, Life Extension Vit K, and eat gelatin rich foods or supplemental gelatin. What I mean is, I believe I do not have any significant vit/min deficiencies!

Edit: This past week I received an order of Thyroid S I bought to see if it made any difference. I am taking one tablet a day, one half in the morning, one in the afternoon.

Thank you for your time

 

[Sucrates]

I would try cyproheptadine, periactin in the UK. It's an antihistamine that's also anti-serotonin, it's used for pruritus and effective for anxiety, both can be caused by serotonin, in the case of pruritus indirectly by raising histamine. The downside is that it's sedating for some people. Lots of posts on the forum about it.
If you're hypo then thyroid might be the most effective anti-serotonin substance. Hyperthyroid people become extra sensitised to serotonin too. I'd be very careful taking thyroid meds if there is tachycardia, personally I wouldn't do it.

 

[Peater]

Thank you very much Sucrates, I had seen a link between serotonin and itching online so I'm glad you've confirmed it too. I use 'Sominex' at the moment for its antihistamine and sleep-inducing properties but the additional anti-serotonin properties sound interesting

 

[Sucrates]

Thank you very much Sucrates, I had seen a link between serotonin and itching online so I'm glad you've confirmed it too. I use 'Sominex' at the moment for its antihistamine and sleep-inducing properties but the additional anti-serotonin properties sound interesting

I've used both. Sominex (Diphenhydramine/DPH) is good for inducing sleep, might increase serotonin at higher doses though, probably not relevant at 50mg IIRC. Cypro is good for sleep too, 4mg cypro is about the same as 50mg DPH regarding sleep for me. Cypro has a longer lasting effect than the immediate effect on itching for some people, first time I used it for a few weeks for histamine type skin irritation it didn't come back.

 

[Peater]

Sounds good, I'll try and get hold of some Cypro. Do you this sounds more like a histamine or a serotonin levels issue?

 

[tara]

Sounds like you don't have much of a clue about the cause of the itching?
I got a totally distracting itchy rash a couple of years ago. In my case, the thing that seems to have resolved it is just a little extra zinc (~20mg/once a week). If I forget it for more than 2 weeks, the itch starts to show itself slightly again and I remember to take the zinc and it goes away. No particular reason to think yours will have the same cause or solution, but if you haven't tried it it might be one to add to the list of possibilities.

 

[Sucrates]

Sounds good, I'll try and get hold of some Cypro. Do you this sounds more like a histamine or a serotonin levels issue?

Both tend to rise together, if there's a tendency to estrogen dominance or hypothyroidism then that might be the root, increasing serotonin which causes anxiety and increases histamine causing the itching. I could be wrong on all of that of course.
Magnesium is important too, but if it's irritating the GI system then it will make the issue worse, needs to be the correct type and dose, which varies with different people.

 

[Peater]

Thanks both - I'd been taking ZMA for years before this, so I'll get back on it as cutting it out has not helped.

No idea at all Tara, it was getting very bad last night (It seems to slowly rise for a couple of days, peak, then drop off for a while. I'm male, BTW!)

I took a full Sominex tablet and that had trouble putting me to sleep - if I take half a tablet on a good day that normally works easily.

Interesting how estrogen and serotonin rise together, with them being big parts of RPs writing.

 

[Peater]

Reading another post on here I saw someone mentioned Bartonella. Out of curiosity I looked it up and I was stunned to see I have the rippled 'stretch marks' on the hip part of my groin where there isn't any stretching. (I've had marks on my side for years from when I was overweight as a teenager)

Does anyone have any experience with this? It seems to tie in with anxiety symptoms as well. I'm a little worried.

 

[Peatness]

Effectiveness of topical clove oil on symptomatic treatment of chronic pruritus - PubMed

The topical treatment of chronic pruritus with clove oils is effective, easy to use, safe, cheap, and more acceptable for whom topical and systemic treatments tend to be irritating, contraindicated, or less well tolerated.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Kray]

Reading another post on here I saw someone mentioned Bartonella. Out of curiosity I looked it up and I was stunned to see I have the rippled 'stretch marks' on the hip part of my groin where there isn't any stretching. (I've had marks on my side for years from when I was overweight as a teenager)

Does anyone have any experience with this? It seems to tie in with anxiety symptoms as well. I'm a little worried.

Hi Peater- how is your situation currently? Did you go for Cypro and did it help? Any other updates?

 

[youngsinatra]

It can be a sign of a stagnant liver/gallbladder.

Signs of good bile flow:
brown, sticky, sinking, well-formed stool, good tolerance to dietary fats, 1-3 bowel movements a day, blood lipids like total cholesterol in the healthy range, low liver enzyme readings.

Signs of stagnant bile flow („cholestasis“)
pale or yellow stool color, loose stool, undigested food in stool, fat malabsorption, upper right quadrant abdominal tension, constipation, sometimes mixed with diarrhea, SIBO, nonspecific itching, yellow tint of the skin, dark urine and irritability.

 

[Peater]

Hi Peater- how is your situation currently? Did you go for Cypro and did it help? Any other updates?

Hi Kray, thanks for asking. Cypro is a big help when it happens. It still happens, but I just live with it now. It's a very strange sensation, not itching like you might get from say fibreglass insulation but a singular itchy point or two that produces an intense desire to scratch it. It can be anywhere, the usual place is on/near my shoulder blade every single night, then it could be my ear, my thigh, my head, my foot, anywhere!

I still wonder if it's bartonella but I haven't been able to get any tests yet. I remembered a friends cat did scratch me when I was looking after it while he was working away. Although as youngsinatra points out below, it could be liver although my skin etc seem fine, it's mostly the itching. Years ago I did go to the GP about it, they did do a liver test I believe and some others, even one in case it was leukemia or something I think, but as I'm the UK, you don't get any feedback other than "The tests were fine". Maybe I should do a private one now, those are probably quite affordable.

It can be a sign of a stagnant liver/gallbladder.

Signs of good bile flow:
brown, sticky, sinking, well-formed stool, good tolerance to dietary fats, 1-3 bowel movements a day, blood lipids like total cholesterol in the healthy range, low liver enzyme readings.

Signs of stagnant bile flow („cholestasis“)
pale or yellow stool color, loose stool, undigested food in stool, fat malabsorption, upper right quadrant abdominal tension, constipation, sometimes mixed with diarrhea, SIBO, nonspecific itching, yellow tint of the skin, dark urine and irritability.

 

[Kray]

It can be a sign of a stagnant liver/gallbladder.

Signs of good bile flow:
brown, sticky, sinking, well-formed stool, good tolerance to dietary fats, 1-3 bowel movements a day, blood lipids like total cholesterol in the healthy range, low liver enzyme readings.

Signs of stagnant bile flow („cholestasis“)
pale or yellow stool color, loose stool, undigested food in stool, fat malabsorption, upper right quadrant abdominal tension, constipation, sometimes mixed with diarrhea, SIBO, nonspecific itching, yellow tint of the skin, dark urine and irritability.

Thanks for pointing this out. Good to have a general idea of what to look for, good or bad.

 

[Kray]

Hi Kray, thanks for asking. Cypro is a big help when it happens. It still happens, but I just live with it now. It's a very strange sensation, not itching like you might get from say fibreglass insulation but a singular itchy point or two that produces an intense desire to scratch it. It can be anywhere, the usual place is on/near my shoulder blade every single night, then it could be my ear, my thigh, my head, my foot, anywhere!

I still wonder if it's bartonella but I haven't been able to get any tests yet. I remembered a friends cat did scratch me when I was looking after it while he was working away. Although as youngsinatra points out below, it could be liver although my skin etc seem fine, it's mostly the itching. Years ago I did go to the GP about it, they did do a liver test I believe and some others, even one in case it was leukemia or something I think, but as I'm the UK, you don't get any feedback other than "The tests were fine". Maybe I should do a private one now, those are probably quite affordable.

@Peater Thanks for your feedback. I can relate to your itching phenomenon. I've been trying to avoid oral Benadryl and have relied on Benadryl Spray, but not sure that is any better. I think any kind of anti-histamine is not good in the long haul.

I was reading the thread from several years ago that @haidut posted, and the study on itching. Interesting the link between pain and itch (depression?). Some helps could be l-theanine, l-lysine, aspirin, and B2. I hope your itching has gotten better. If anything comes up on your radar, please share!

 

[Tarmander]

I used to have a really itchy back sometimes. A small dose of cholestyramine per day took care of it

 

[Kray]

I used to have a really itchy back sometimes. A small dose of cholestyramine per day took care of it

What other non-Rx options could you recommend if one doesn't have access to this drug? Do you know what caused your itching?

 

[Peater]

@Peater Thanks for your feedback. I can relate to your itching phenomenon. I've been trying to avoid oral Benadryl and have relied on Benadryl Spray, but not sure that is any better. I think any kind of anti-histamine is not good in the long haul.

I was reading the thread from several years ago that @haidut posted, and the study on itching. Interesting the link between pain and itch (depression?). Some helps could be l-theanine, l-lysine, aspirin, and B2. I hope your itching has gotten better. If anything comes up on your radar, please share!

Will do and thanks for posting those ideas. (elsewhere on the forum someone mention theanine exacerbating itching if too much was taken and I think that is the case for me too)

 

[Kray]

Will do and thanks for posting those ideas. (elsewhere on the forum someone mention theanine exacerbating itching if too much was taken and I think that is the case for me too)

Thanks, I appreciate the tip on theanine. I started taking 200mg twice a day a couple of days ago. What dose for you that may have caused itching? I'm not sure if there is a transition period where it may take some time when starting, but I had trouble falling sleep last night after taking the 2nd (200mg) dose.

 

[Peater]

Thanks, I appreciate the tip on theanine. I started taking 200mg twice a day a couple of days ago. What dose for you that may have caused itching? I'm not sure if there is a transition period where it may take some time when starting, but I had trouble falling sleep last night after taking the 2nd (200mg) dose.

I have no idea now sorry, I never measured it that precisely but probably slightly over what you're taking if I had a bigger dose