Ray Peat Believes That Libertarian Ideology Is Responsible For The Hatred Of Fructose

[jaguar43]

From the Ray Peat email depository thread.

From Jun 4, 2011

"Hi Ray, I'm wondering about fruit and its avenues of metabolism. Regarding this study, The effect of two energy-restricted diets, a low-fructose diet versus a moderate natural fructose diet, on weight loss and metabolic syndrome param... - PubMed - NCBI
A commenter said,"
That study does''t eliminate fructose as one of Kurt Harris‚ neolithic agents of disease. Nor does it even mean much in the real world.
Note that both groups were on a calorie restricted diet. The negative effects of fructose consumption are due to the limited avenues available for its metabolic disposal via the liver (glycogen or triglycerides), the limited capacity of those avenues, and its availability in drinkable form (sodas, fruit juices, smoothies).
Putting people on a calorie restricted diet ˆ and one that also doesn‚t include liquids (their most common delivery form, by far) ˆ purposely eliminates the real-world consumption and metabolic scenario. The danger of fructose is that its sweet taste tempts us to consume giant boluses of it, which overwhelm in the short term the ability of our liver to process it (= glycation = heart disease). In the longer term they overwhelm the ability of our liver to store it (= NAFLD, T2D, etc.) None of this happens on a calorie-restricted diet or under conditions of daily intense exercise that continually depletes glycogen reserves. Thus Grok and the fruitarians.
I don't enjoy being the wet blanket here, but this study still tells us nothing about the effects of fruit-sourced fructose eaten as part of a non-restricted diet ˆ in other words, the real-world case.
Seriously: I know it's fun to question authority, maaaaaan, but please: let's all think a bit about the metabolic pathways involved before gleefully setting fire to everything that got us where we are."

I'm very curious what you think about it."

RP:
"I keep thinking about doing a newsletter about fructose, but I think the ideology behind the hatred of fructose is the real issue. The typical internet libertarian ideology thinks the killer ape doctrine of Konrad Lorenz, Robert Ardrey, and Desmond Morris is the essence of anthropology. For most of these people, hunter-gatherers were just hunters who found some seeds occasionally."

Ray Peat Email Advice Depository


I find it interesting that Ray Peat was willing to make that argument. It seems as though Ray Peat believes that certain political ideas seem to reinforce nutrition and health trends. But I think he is right. Libertarians definitely hold onto certain ideas that makes it harder for people to see reality. Or in this case, health and nutrition.

It's also interesting that Ray Peat incorporates Konrad Lorenz with the libertarians. Even though that is a radical statement. There are certain members on this forum who have openly promote libertarianism while promoting ideas from Konrad Lorenz like genetic theory of intelligence or the greed and violence theory of human nature. Which ties nicely into the killer ape ideology. And that with the hatred of Fructose.

I think Ray Peat is more aware of political trends then what we give him credit for. And that we are closer to understanding his political ideas in total. One thing is for sure, he isn't big on libertarianism.

 

[Birdie]

Thanks for this.

Another small piece of the political puzzle is found in his latest NL, Sept 2016. He mentions that Vice President Biden was enlisted in 2015 in a publicity campaign to promote the doctrine of gene mutation as the cause of cancer. The, he talks about the role of the govt in accelerating the approval of new cancer drugs. And, "The White House has directed the Department of Defense and 12 other government agencies to participate."

I am concerned, with all the talk of how Obamacare isn't working, that we will soon hear of the single payer plan, the government payer... This will just accelerate the government as doctor problem that we are experiencing now.

 

[jaguar43]

Thanks for this.

Another small piece of the political puzzle is found in his latest NL, Sept 2016. He mentions that Vice President Biden was enlisted in 2015 in a publicity campaign to promote the doctrine of gene mutation as the cause of cancer. The, he talks about the role of the govt in accelerating the approval of new cancer drugs. And, "The White House has directed the Department of Defense and 12 other government agencies to participate."

You left out the paragraph that put the whole thing in perspective. You left out the part in which Peat refers to the billionaire doctor who promotes the idea of cancer as a mutation rather than a developmental, metabolic diseases. And how the government supports that doctrine. It's not about being anti-government, but what ideology the government supports that he refers too.

I am concerned, with all the talk of how Obamacare isn't working, that we will soon hear of the single payer plan, the government payer... This will just accelerate the government as doctor problem that we are experiencing now.

Ray Peat spoke highly of Bernie Sanders in two interviews. Sanders ran on a single payer healthcare system platform. Obamacare is not single payer. it forces people to buy privatize insurance. Not government insurance like medicare or medicaid. Single payer with dramatically lower the cost of medicine and healthcare in this country.

 

[lvysaur]

I find it interesting that Ray Peat was willing to make that argument. It seems as though Ray Peat believes that certain political ideas seem to reinforce nutrition and health trends. But I think he is right.

I think that political ideologies are only one part of the equation, and the root of the ideology is another. The ideology can come from a place of conscious rational concern, or emotional fanaticism/hatred. Anecdotally, it seems like the latter is increasingly influencing politics on both sides of the spectrum.

As far as the "raw emotions" underlying the political ideologies go, I associate the more radical right/libertarian crowd with excess meat/protein consumption and fat metabolism, and the radical left with glucose metabolism and lower serotonin. This is my impression for white male Americans.

I would think that for most racial minority groups in the US, the inverse is true. That is, the relative right (though in reality this would be something like centrist or left-leaning republican, as no sane minorities are far right in a majority-white country) would be in a better state of metabolism, while the radical left would be in a worse state.

Basically, I think the crux of it is that people who are very emotionally attached to their perceived group self-interests have poorer health. If they had good health (which is more individually determined), they would feel more satisfied on an individual level, and less angry/desperate about these larger group issues which have much less importance in their lives than their own individual actions.

In other words, the people who do this have a victim complex. This still holds even if they like to accuse others of having a victim complex :^)

Historically, it's always been the poorer people who supported fascist policies, not the upper middle class.

 

[Giraffe]

The typical internet libertarian ideology thinks the killer ape doctrine of Konrad Lorenz, Robert Ardrey, and Desmond Morris is the essence of anthropology. For most of these people, hunter-gatherers were just hunters who found some seeds occasionally

He named three researchers that were into behavioural science. This is not about political parties.

Libertarianism (metaphysics) - Wikipedia

 

[jaguar43]

He named three researchers that were into behavioural science. This is not about political parties.

Libertarianism (metaphysics) - Wikipedia

I am pretty sure he means libertarianism all around. Whether politics or philosophy. Konrad Lorenz was part of the nazi party in Germany.

The typical internet libertarian ideology doesn't really make its way into metaphysic. But politics anyway.

 

[tara]

Ray peat ... he is a full supporter of Donald J Trump for President of the U.S. of A.

Unless you have some pretty explicit new evidence for that, I'll call it misrepresenting the man and delete it as in breach of the rules.
Possibly you are joking, but could be confusing to readers.

 

[Tarmander]

Jag, why are you always trying to get Peat into one of these concept boxes? I remember that thread you made about him maybe being conservative. My experience is that most intelligent people make decisions based on evidence, facts, and what is happening at that moment. In America, back in the early 2000s, it was intelligent to vote democratic to try and avoid the war in Iraq. Today it has totally flip flopped and the Dems are all hot and bothered to start shiz. I would think an intelligent person would navigate waters such as these with a smooth practiced hands, not a dead log of commitment.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

So why does libertarianism = killer ape theory?

 

[jaguar43]

Jag, why are you always trying to get Peat into one of these concept boxes? I remember that thread you made about him maybe being conservative. My experience is that most intelligent people make decisions based on evidence, facts, and what is happening at that moment. In America, back in the early 2000s, it was intelligent to vote democratic to try and avoid the war in Iraq. Today it has totally flip flopped and the Dems are all hot and bothered to start shiz. I would think an intelligent person would navigate waters such as these with a smooth practiced hands, not a dead log of commitment.

I did not make that thread that was narouz who made it. But thanks for being accurate.(sarcasm)

Well if the "concept box" means quoting Peat on how certain political ideas actually intervene with Ray Peat's health and nutrition ideas. Then I think it's important to put Peat into these concept boxes.

 

[Tarmander]

I did not make that thread that was narouz who made it. But thanks for being accurate.(sarcasm)

Ahh if it was Narouz, then I apologize, I did not look it up before hand.

Well if the "concept box" means quoting Peat on how certain political ideas actually intervene with Ray Peat's health and nutrition ideas. Then I think it's important to put Peat into these concept boxes.

What does this mean?

 

[sladerunner69]

Unless you have some pretty explicit new evidence for that, I'll call it misrepresenting the man and delete it as in breach of the rules.
Possibly you are joking, but could be confusing to readers.

It's just my annoying sense of humour in action. I am a conservative and like to think Ray Peat would be one too, but who knows. Feel free to erase.

I would just hope that he is more of a conservative than a socialist. His only outspoken political philosophy is anti-authoritarianism, that that seems to align much more with conservatives and libertarians. In the end though I dont think Dr. Peat would concern himself with the trivial science of politics, as it necessitates to much pandering to a less than enlightened voter base on both sides.

 

[jaguar43]

It's just my annoying sense of humour in action. I am a conservative and like to think Ray Peat would be one too, but who knows. Feel free to erase.

I would just hope that he is more of a conservative than a socialist. His only outspoken political philosophy is anti-authoritarianism, that that seems to align much more with conservatives and libertarians. In the end though I dont think Dr. Peat would concern himself with the trivial science of politics, as it necessitates to much pandering to a less than enlightened voter base on both sides.

If Ray Peat is known for promoting Fructose as a health food. And then says that the libertarian ideology is part of the problem with the hatred of fructose. It shouldn't be to hard to think that he doesn't really associated himself with the libertarian ideology.

I think it's funny how you automatically associated the right wing( whether conservative or libertarians) as anti-authoritarianism. Or is it possible that you associate the right wing in that way because you identify with it ?

Anyway the killer ape theory seems pretty authoritarian in my view. The idea that our progenitors were nothing more than killing machines seems to imply a very specific type of model for humanity.

 

[sladerunner69]

If Ray Peat is known for promoting Fructose as a health food. And then says that the libertarian ideology is part of the problem with the hatred of fructose. It shouldn't be to hard to think that he doesn't really associated himself with the libertarian ideology.

I think it's funny how you automatically associated the right wing( whether conservative or libertarians) as anti-authoritarianism. Or is it possible that you associate the right wing in that way because you identify with it ?

Anyway the killer ape theory seems pretty authoritarian in my view. The idea that our progenitors were nothing more than killing machines seems to imply a very specific type of model for humanity.

Liberals are totally pro-authority. Left wing is bigger government, tell people what do do, and more authority, how could you possibly beleive otherwise? Its clear you have a flawed udnerstanding of the right. Let me put it this way: politics has two types of people: those who want to be left alone, and those who wont leave you the hell alone.

Ray peat mentioned libertarianism in the anthroplogical sense, it has nothing to do with politics, totally different context.

 

[DaveFoster]

"...typical internet libertarian ideology..."

"Typical"

"Internet libertarian"

I bet Peat would support neither Trump nor Hilary. He'd probably be more of a fan of Trump due to less government, but he would criticize his identifications based on factors such as race.

Peat is obviously an anarchist, but probably against a monetary system in general, so he's probably not an anarcho-capitalist in the strict sense.

 

[jaguar43]

"...typical internet libertarian ideology..."

"Typical"

"Internet libertarian"

I bet Peat would support neither Trump nor Hilary. He'd probably be more of a fan of Trump due to less government, but he would criticize his identifications based on factors such as race.

Peat is obviously an anarchist, but probably against a monetary system in general, so he's probably not an anarcho-capitalist in the strict sense.

Are you implying that the typical internet libertarian is meant in by the politics in the email exchange ?

You just said a few days ago that Peat borrows to much from Bolshevism/communism ? Here is the quote

I have also noticed that Peat borrows a lot of influence from Bolshevism/Communism. I think that Peat realizes that the world isn't perfect, but I perceive his argument to be as follows: @DaveFoster

Nietzsche As Biological Visionary?

 

[DaveFoster]

Are you implying that the typical internet libertarian is meant in by the politics in the email exchange ?

You just said a few days ago that Peat borrows to much from Bolshevism/communism ? Here is the quote

This chart does not reflect me:

Peat is somewhere in the bottom-left quadrant.

 

[jaguar43]

Liberals are totally pro-authority. Left wing is bigger government, tell people what do do, and more authority, how could you possibly beleive otherwise? Its clear you have a flawed udnerstanding of the right. Let me put it this way: politics has two types of people: those who want to be left alone, and those who wont leave you the hell alone.

Ray peat mentioned libertarianism in the anthroplogical sense, it has nothing to do with politics, totally different context.

There is no typical internet anthropological libertarianism, he meant that in the political sense of the word.

 

[sladerunner69]

This chart does not reflect me:

Peat is somewhere in the bottom-left quadrant.

When has peat ever hinted at being a socialist instead of a capatalist?

Also I would disagree with the orientation of this high school chart in general. A true representation of poltiical tendencies would have to be linear, because anything to the left would trend towards authoritarianism. For isntance, how do you raise taxes and spread wealth without increasing the size of government?? The right is libertarian, the left is authoritarian, you cannot seperate the two.

 

[sladerunner69]

"...typical internet libertarian ideology..."

"Typical"

"Internet libertarian"

I bet Peat would support neither Trump nor Hilary. He'd probably be more of a fan of Trump due to less government, but he would criticize his identifications based on factors such as race.

Peat is obviously an anarchist, but probably against a monetary system in general, so he's probably not an anarcho-capitalist in the strict sense.

Trump would support the notion that race should not be a factor in government. Conservatives believe that race is meaningless once you are a citizen, and that all citzens have the same basic rights regardless of race. That does not mean we enforce schools and enterprises to bring on more employees or students because they represent a minority racial demographic, it just means the govenremnt is going to wipe its hands of worrying about such an inane, immature word like racism.