Ray Peat Diet Gave Me A Fatty Liver?

[visionofstrength]

I don't know if anyone else here has tried something similar, like don't exceed maybe 15g fat at a time and keep it low throughout the day.

I think in an interview, Peat suggests supplementing about a teaspoon of coconut oil at a time, which is 4.5 grams of fat (39 calories).

In another interview, he seems to say "about a third" of his own calories might come from fat (he's not sure), and so in a meal with 30 grams of protein (120 calories) he would need about 13.5 grams of fat (which is equal to a tablespoon of coconut oil).

But if he snacks on a pint of ice cream, as it seems he suggested in an interview, that would be 50 grams of fat.

As I understand it, the type of fat matters more than the amount. Short and medium chain triglycrides can be very rapidly digested in the cholymicrons, while long chain must be shunted to the liver. For me, coconut/MCT oil gives me a burst of energy, while a fatty piece of lamb makes me feel sluggish.

 

[pboy]

yea coconut might be a slight exception cause of that, I haven't used it in a while so Im not sure, but it would make sense that it might be lighter, though it still has like...half the fats as long chain I think, but perhaps you could eat more of it without overdoing your gallbladder

 

[visionofstrength]

What co2 sensor do you use visionofstrength?

I PM'd the specs to you.

 

[Spondive]

Thanks visionofstrength.

 

[Sheila]

Since we have been discussing CO2 here and how to measure it, you may find this from KMUD Altitude transcription (just up: viewtopic.php?f=73&t=5604#p66477) of interest.

"HD: So why are hospitals so concerned, especially in emergency rooms, you know, they test your oxygen saturation by putting this meter over your fingertips and then they give you oxygen to breathe?

RP: Well, for one thing, I’ve tested those things on my finger and everyone feels really good when they have a 99% saturation, but I’ve noticed that when I am feeling really the best I can get mine down to 89%. And I have thought about that a lot, and watched the different conditions that cause it, and hyperventilating will cause the saturation to go up and having just cold fingers will make the oxygen go up. If you are not using the oxygen, it doesn’t do you any good to have your haemoglobin saturated if you’re not using it. So those finger meters aren’t really very informative unless you know what temperature your fingers are at. And then I have talked to the doctors specializing in giving oxygen to stroke patients and way back in the 1930s, Yandell Henderson became famous for providing resuscitation equipment to fire departments which provided 7% CO2 with the oxygen. That was based on physiology and it worked. And the same for altitude sickness; I have friends now who take a bottle of CO2 with them when they go to Vale for high altitude skiing. When they start getting mountain sickness they take some CO2 and traditionally people have been using acetazolamide for altitude sickness. That causes you to retain your own CO2 at a higher level."

Sheila

 

[visionofstrength]

Since we have been discussing CO2 here and how to measure it, you may find this from KMUD Altitude transcription (just up: viewtopic.php?f=73&t=5604#p66477) of interest.

"HD: So why are hospitals so concerned, especially in emergency rooms, you know, they test your oxygen saturation by putting this meter over your fingertips and then they give you oxygen to breathe?

RP: Well, for one thing, I’ve tested those things on my finger and everyone feels really good when they have a 99% saturation, but I’ve noticed that when I am feeling really the best I can get mine down to 89%. And I have thought about that a lot, and watched the different conditions that cause it, and hyperventilating will cause the saturation to go up and having just cold fingers will make the oxygen go up. If you are not using the oxygen, it doesn’t do you any good to have your haemoglobin saturated if you’re not using it. So those finger meters aren’t really very informative unless you know what temperature your fingers are at. And then I have talked to the doctors specializing in giving oxygen to stroke patients and way back in the 1930s, Yandell Henderson became famous for providing resuscitation equipment to fire departments which provided 7% CO2 with the oxygen. That was based on physiology and it worked. And the same for altitude sickness; I have friends now who take a bottle of CO2 with them when they go to Vale for high altitude skiing. When they start getting mountain sickness they take some CO2 and traditionally people have been using acetazolamide for altitude sickness. That causes you to retain your own CO2 at a higher level."

Sheila

I've never understood why those meters show such high saturations on those around me, who seem to me to have cold hands -- while I get lower readings and seem to have really warm hands! I also feel the best when I'm breathing CO2 at rates that will bring my readings down even lower.

Here it is! First you found Peat's ways to check metabolic rate, and now this. You are showing me so much! Thanks, Sheila!

 

[yoshiesque]

hey guys, because i most likely have fatty liver from my raised liver function tests, i thought id give you my diet and maybe you can help me figure out what went wrong.

I was eating the following:

- lean meats, usually salted with some egg shell & 200g of mango/cherries
- gelatin in coffee, with milk and sugar
- at night id eat about 50g-100g parmesan cheese, and also half a cup of water, gelatin and sugar/honey. this was my bed time snack
- yoghurt - 200g or so daily
- carrot salad + coconut oil
- oysters here and there
- eggs
- OJ

and id probably try to have about 2-3 tablespoons of coconut oil (including the one in carrot salads).

I suspect, based on someones post that fat causes fatty liver, i believe it might be the fact that i had quite a bit of cheese and coconut oil chucked in. given that im eating sugars too, might be an issue. i was definitely OVER eating. i found it really hard to keep to my daily caloric intake, when ur drinking liquids with sugars (get hungry often coz of that).

But my doc says its most likely the high carb and i think he might be right. coz i switched from gaps style diet before and never had any liver issues what so ever.

 

[visionofstrength]

hey guys, because i most likely have fatty liver from my raised liver function tests, i thought id give you my diet and maybe you can help me figure out what went wrong.

I was eating the following:

- lean meats, usually salted with some egg shell & 200g of mango/cherries
- gelatin in coffee, with milk and sugar
- at night id eat about 50g-100g parmesan cheese, and also half a cup of water, gelatin and sugar/honey. this was my bed time snack
- yoghurt - 200g or so daily
- carrot salad + coconut oil
- oysters here and there
- eggs
- OJ

and id probably try to have about 2-3 tablespoons of coconut oil (including the one in carrot salads).

I suspect, based on someones post that fat causes fatty liver, i believe it might be the fact that i had quite a bit of cheese and coconut oil chucked in. given that im eating sugars too, might be an issue. i was definitely OVER eating. i found it really hard to keep to my daily caloric intake, when ur drinking liquids with sugars (get hungry often coz of that).

But my doc says its most likely the high carb and i think he might be right. coz i switched from gaps style diet before and never had any liver issues what so ever.

We on the forum are discussing if you can have a high metabolic rate, and avoid fatty liver, just by changing your foods as you have. I tend to think not, but others here seem to disagree.

My view is that we are far more besieged today by highly estrogenic contaminants in our food than we have ever been, and that these contaminants in our food eventually catch up with us, and cause many hypothyroid conditions, such as fatty liver. The older we are, past the age of 25, the worse it gets.

What to do? Could you please take a look at the post here:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5551&start=30#p66013

I'd be interested to know how many of those proposed daily allowances in that post you are getting?

 

[nikotrope]

hey guys, because i most likely have fatty liver from my raised liver function tests, i thought id give you my diet and maybe you can help me figure out what went wrong.

I was eating the same way and probably got fatty liver too.

haidut said in a post that taking 400-800mg of caffeine and 15-45mg of vitamin k2 mk4 through the day during 2 weeks will improve liver functions. I've done that with aspirin also for the past 2 weeks and lost 2 pounds (mainly because I am less hungry, despite having good pulse and temps).

I've also eaten a low-fat diet and stopped adding sugar in my liquids. It came naturally, probably because the supplements improved my liver. Not sure because I can't test it but you could try it.

I was not satisfied with 3500kcal last month and now can eat 2500kcal and less without feeling hungry and with same pulse and temps.

 

[visionofstrength]

All good news except, Wanting to eat less than 3,000 calories could be a sign of declining metabolism, unless maybe the foods eaten are intestinal irritants or PUFAs, which could contribute to overwhelming the liver.

How big are you and how active? That tends to determine the calories you may need.

 

[nikotrope]

I am 5'5" and 190lbs (30% BF) sedentary, so pretty small and I don't think I need that much calories if everything is working correctly. RP said he ate 4000-5000kcal and halved it after beginning to take thyroid, so I think you can get a pretty good metabolism with 2500kcal. I was gaining weight when eating more than 3000kcal (even at 2500kcal) and caffeine made me less hungry and I can lose weight at 2500kcal. I'm not finish to test my ideal requirement though, I will probably eat more for a few days to see if things are better or not.

And since caffeine and vitamin k2 might have the desired effect of making my liver better, it probably made me more efficient at burning sugar instead of storing it (through better estrogen detox and stuff like that because other things are better too, like my Control Pause has improved which could mean a better CO2 level but don't have anything to really test it).

I don't eat a lot of PUFAs (2-4g max and supplement with vitamin e when I eat eggs) and I don't think I have irritants (dairy, oj, shellfish, 1-2 eggs, liver and rice occasionally and doesn't seem to change anything in my intestines).

 

[Peata]

I am 5'5" and 190lbs (30% BF) sedentary, so pretty small and I don't think I need that much calories if everything is working correctly. RP said he ate 4000-5000kcal and halved it after beginning to take thyroid, so I think you can get a pretty good metabolism with 2500kcal. I was gaining weight when eating more than 3000kcal (even at 2500kcal) and caffeine made me less hungry and I can lose weight at 2500kcal. I'm not finish to test my ideal requirement though, I will probably eat more for a few days to see if things are better or not.

And since caffeine and vitamin k2 might have the desired effect of making my liver better, it probably made me more efficient at burning sugar instead of storing it (through better estrogen detox and stuff like that because other things are better too, like my Control Pause has improved which could mean a better CO2 level but don't have anything to really test it).

I don't eat a lot of PUFAs (2-4g max and supplement with vitamin e when I eat eggs) and I don't think I have irritants (dairy, oj, shellfish, 1-2 eggs, liver and rice occasionally and doesn't seem to change anything in my intestines).

So you used the caffeine and K2 doses for two weeks, then stopped? Or cut back?

 

[yoshiesque]

unfortunately \i do not think i can drink that much caffeine.

i already have issues if i drink two coffees a day. and putting sugar or wahtever in it does not make it better. i am not diabetic and my blood sugar tests are always fine. ive always been sensitive to too much coffee.

so supplementing with pure caffiene probably wont help me. is that what you did?

 

[visionofstrength]

I don't eat a lot of PUFAs (2-4g max and supplement with vitamin e when I eat eggs) and I don't think I have irritants (dairy, oj, shellfish, 1-2 eggs, liver and rice occasionally and doesn't seem to change anything in my intestines).

As long as these two things are true, zero PUFAs and no irritants, you should eventually be fine. Congrats on figuring that out, it's hard to do!

But it could take a long time, perhaps even years. If you want to try to speed things up, you could try adding a little more coffee each day, very gradually, or some of the other RDAs in that post.

 

[visionofstrength]

unfortunately \i do not think i can drink that much caffeine.

i already have issues if i drink two coffees a day. and putting sugar or wahtever in it does not make it better. i am not diabetic and my blood sugar tests are always fine. ive always been sensitive to too much coffee.

so supplementing with pure caffiene probably wont help me. is that what you did?

I use coffee, at 4x strength, always with food so it absorbs gradually.

 

[nikotrope]

So you used the caffeine and K2 doses for two weeks, then stopped? Or cut back?

I continue the caffeine but I had to stop vitamin k2 early because I finished what I had and couldn't take the high dose haidut recommended anyway. I am moving in another country in a week so can't order vitamin k2 until then.

I think for me the caffeine is what did most of the job, but probably because I have never drunk coffee in my life before. And despite the coke, red bull and especially lots of tea, I am not sure I had more than 150mg of caffeine per day before.

Of course I have no blood test to validate the claims so I can't be sure, but I feel better and lost weight without difficulties (and continue to do so).

 

[nikotrope]

But it could take a long time, perhaps even years. If you want to try to speed things up, you could try adding a little more coffee each day, very gradually, or some of the other RDAs in that post.

I am gradually adding more caffeine I began at 400mg and I am at almost 800mg now. I am still trying things to speed up the loss of PUFA and to solve my estrogen problems, I have looked at your RDAs and have a few things I didn't try yet.

 

[nikotrope]

unfortunately \i do not think i can drink that much caffeine.

i already have issues if i drink two coffees a day. and putting sugar or wahtever in it does not make it better. i am not diabetic and my blood sugar tests are always fine. ive always been sensitive to too much coffee.

so supplementing with pure caffiene probably wont help me. is that what you did?

While keeping those 2 coffees per day, you could add some tea, or some red bull or coke to increase the dose. Or maybe your coffees are too strong and the dose of caffeine per coffee is bigger than you can handle right now.

For example I can't handle a single dose of 200mg of caffeine but I have no problems with 2 doses of 100mg 30 minutes apart. Maybe 100mg or maybe less is too much for you and you should try smaller doses throughout the day. As as say I don't drink coffee so I don't know how much caffeine is in a cup of coffee, sorry for that.

Do you take supplements and if yes what are they? Maybe you have a deficiency in some vitamin or mineral and it would help to fix it in order to improve your tolerance in caffeine.

 

[aquaman]

or some of the other RDAs in that post.

Can you stop referring to these as "RDAs" please?

 

[yoshiesque]

This is what supplements I am taking:

pantothenic acid - 2x450mg for treating VERY high cholesterol
THorn vitamin B complex - 1/day
Choline - 2xday (added for fatty liver)
Vitamin E - 400IU, 3x/day
Ginko Biloba - 2x/day i dunno why i still bother with this. it does nothing
Digestive Enzymes each meal
300mg magnesium
500mg taurine - 3x/day (added for fatty liver)

will not take niacinimide & aspirin until my LFT normalize again.