Relearning How To Breathe And Increasing CO2

[Heidi]

What are the best sources for reduced breathing exercises? I find the normalbreathing.com and buteyko.com websites very gimmicky in the way they present information. I am finding the information in this thread much more helpful.

Just in my limited experience, mindful, reduced breathing warms up my hands better than anything else I've tried.

I was really dismayed by the lack of good web sites and information on all this. This forum was the only place that I could find that talked about this info in an open minded way. I had heard of Buteyko years ago, but thought it was just for people with asthma.

I am grateful for the Buteyko Method, but I feel like there needs to be a much broader approach that gives people a lot more options. Also, I would love another name. I'm not really doing the Buteyko Method. What does everyone think is the best way to refer to this kind of breathing? I would be happy to work on a website with people. But I would only want to do it with more experienced people involved.

The response I've received on this forum has completely exceeded my small expectations for help. Thank you everyone!

 

[tara]

Buteyko said you needed to practice at least two 20 minute sessions a day, and his patients would try to achieve very low 02 saturations of 75% or less during these sessions.

But using an oximeter (which Buteyko did not have available for his patients), ...

Where did you find reference to the 75%? I don't recall seeing that. How did they aim for/measure 75% saturation without an oximeter?

But I agree that for both the more important goal is that a higher tolerance for carbonic acid in the blood (and a higher alveolar CO2) is critical for good health. this is much easier than it seems, if you just pinch your nostrils and read your O2 saturation on a pulse oximeter. The Buteyko techniques were brilliant but are not really necessary now that there are cheap pulse oximeters.

Once you can keep your O2 saturation comfortably below 94% on the pulse oximeter, a lot of the other health and breathing symptoms will take care of themselves, because it's really the higher CO2 in the blood that is the key.

Is this pulse oximeter method an invention of your own that you find to be working well for you, or is there other support for it around?
I don't understand what advantage you think it has over other Buteyko and other lower tech methods, other than that it might be fun to play with, if you happen to be interested in it?

When you are sleeping you don't want to suffer from "hypoxia", or too little oxygen, or in theory your brain could actually be damaged while you sleep.

Unfortunately, when things like this are not well-studied or understood, it's not obvious (to me) that taping your mouth shut or sleeping under a blanket would not cause excessive hypoxia, if only for short periods of time. For example, if you had a oximeter on you while sleeping, I worry that the alarm would go off alerting you to hypoxia at various times during the night....

I agree, you don't want to suffer hypoxia while sleeping. That's what Buteyko was all about: avoiding the common hypoxia of hyperventilation, esp. during sleep. I understood the mouth-taping to be well-studied by Buteyko, and that he recommended it because it was safe and effective. Is your concern about it from your own thinking about the risk, or have you seen any other evidence of it causing trouble? I've heard of people disliking it, but not of anyone suffering any bad effects. Of course I wouldn't recommend it for anyone with the opposite kind of problem - ventilation-perfussion disruptions that mean they retain too much CO2, but I don't think that's what we are talking about here, is it?

As for the sheet over head, many people do it instinctively, just because it feels good to them.
I would expect the breathing impulse to wake me up before any low-blood-oxygen alarm went off, because I know I get uncomfortable very quickly with my low CP. In practice, I never want the opening completely blocked/filtered by cloth. I don't know if there could be a different situation for people with much higher CP, who routinely push the boundaries on blood oxygen much lower, and therefore might have a shorter margin to correct the situation.
I would not expect it to be necessarily safe practice for someone suffering movement difficulties, and maybe a tendency to epilepsy would be another counter-indication, because of the loss of control. And you really don't want babies to get stuck under too much blanket.

As for sleeping with a cloth, or covers over the face, it might be risky depending on how easy its for a confused, half-asleep person to remove the obstruction if they wake up because they're run out of air. If you were in the habit of covering your entire face (so you couldn't see, as well) with a thick material which was tucked in somewhere, I would be concerned that it would be too difficult to remove in a panic.

I never use anything heavier than a sheet, I never tuck it in, and usually I only partially cover, leaving an opening. I'm pretty confident that I'd wake up and shove it off long before it got dangerous. But I can't speak for anyone else. One way to reduce any such risk would be to only use a small cloth, so that moving at all is likely to dislodge it. That's what I did when I first tried it.

I agree with everything you said about the greater safety of taping compared with not, for most night-time hyperventilators. Also, since there is no need for most people to completely seal the mouth with tape, extra-breathing can be done very easily round the edges if the breathing drive gets strong. Or the light tape would just come off when I open my mouth a bit more strongly.

it feels like I'm on the internet equivalent of an infomercial

Yeah. The advertising is a lot more intrusive than it was a couple of years back when i first read it.

Hula hooping really helped me develop my core and plus it's really fun.

:)

 

[Sheila]

Good morning all,
I was taught the Buteyko breathing method 5 or so years ago and whilst I found it useful, did not see where the whole CO2 aspect fitted until recently. This thread and other synchronicities have suddenly crystallised my thinking (as Someone Thoughtful once said....."Ideally it shouldn't make any sense until it makes total sense") so thank you to everyone for sharing their experiences, they have helped a lot.

I have a few related observations to share, and whilst they may look a bit tangential, I think they might be helpful, so please bear with me.
In working with people who have had brain injuries which have left them with, or exacerbated existing, epilepsy, Buteyko is claimed to help.

As you would know, when people have a seizure the brain is flooded with CO2 which I presume rapidly reduces the state of hyperexcitation, an unpleasant and distressing way to restore balance, but a 'logical' outworking as far as the body is concerned I think, and no doubt initiated to prevent even greater problems, like perhaps a 'stress release valve'. (There is no doubt that many of this 'set' who are women also have exacerbations at ovulation and before/during menstruation but that is not this thread's focus.)

In my observations, this 'set' of people tend to favour sleeping on their left side or tummy, and often in the foetal position - similar to Buteyko's findings, and have picked this position naturally for a long time describing it as 'safe', 'relaxing', 'normal'. Some like to have the covers over their face BUT make a hole for air to come in, finding whole coverage, immediately suffocating (faster than, you or I might for example) and panic inducing. Bag breathing, even a few breaths, makes many of these feel unstable quickly and one told me that she had the presence of mind to try it before a seizure but felt it brought it on quicker. So slowly does it with any breathing changes I think, CO2 production appears a very fundamental level operation.

Thus, in turning to the question of whether someone, apparently 'normal', would wake up uncomfortable with a taped mouth before they caused themselves real damage, I would advise caution. The set of people I observe are obviously much more unstable but if one was really poorly but without epilepsy, one could conceivably get into trouble quickly at night, especially with blood sugar changes and high stress hormones at play. Perhaps start with some looseness, or a 45 degree to normal taping, rather than 90 degrees vertically. Just a thought.

One of the other key things I have noticed to date, is the effect of weather changes, from high to low pressure and the effect of humidity on this 'set'.
Atmospheric pressure changes seem to have a significant effect on their brain stability and so I would add that into the mix for anyone who is having variable results, particularly if they have noticed an increase in symptoms with 'weather changes' previously. I think those with any brain energy problems (from epileptics, to migraines, to headaches, to lowered memory/capacity, to those on the post-ovulation side of the menstrual cycle who often say 'brain fog' increases etc) may also be more affected by these change-of-pressure effects with impacts on their breathing. Humidity often increases here also, and we know that those with low metabolism will have to expend extra metabolic energy removing the extra water vapour from their lungs/circulation that occurs in humid weather breathing. Mouth breathing would just make this situation worse as even more water vapour is inhaled.

When the pressure comes off (an atmospheric low, compared to a previous 'high') everything will expand a little, including cells, including brain cells. These may already be struggling with too much water due to lowered metabolic function, and since the brain can't swell much without issue (because it is encased in the skull) this weather change effect might just be the tipping point. I have noted that people become more irritable before weather changes and also in increased humidity and the old phrase was 'could feel a change coming in their bones'. It seems to be the change of pressure that causes the upset, not continuing low pressure from my observations. The use of aircon where there is reduction in air moisture (as opposed to evaporative ones that increase humidity) seems to help this 'set'.

If anyone has different/better explanations for what might be occurring, or observations to add, I would be delighted to hear them.
Thank you
Sheila

 

[Sheila]

Sorry Tara and readers, for some reiterations above, I did not see Tara's post before I replied. My 'set' are inherently more unstable, but still may offer indications to those more balanced already.
Sheila

 

[Heidi]

Update: I was up during the middle of the night doing my reduced breathing practice when I couldn't sleep. I would have preferred to be sleeping. But I had my best session ever. I even turned on the light to get my CP. It was 26. I was disappointed when I woke up in the morning that my breathing had reverted back. But then I got out of bed and noticed that my body was completely relaxed. All my usual tension holding was gone. I have worked so hard in my life to relax chronic tension. My body relaxes for a short time but then the low level chronic holding comes right back. To wake up and have it gone was unbelievable! I was living in a different body. I stayed mindful of my breathing all day and remembered to breath through my nose, but I didn't do any more reduced breathing work. I had a mild headache and thought it was best to not push things, even though I wanted to do more. My CP was 12 when I got up. It was 20 a few minutes ago.

Then I got some bee stings. I do apitherapy and have been periodically getting bee stings for health issues for years. My husband keeps bees. The bee stings didn't hurt like they usually do. They were painful but not that bad. Normally they are excruciating. It was a completely different experience. I could have gotten way more stings than usual. I asked my husband if he thought there was something wrong with the bees. He got a few stings. The stings were the same as always for him. My pain threshold was completely altered. Again it felt like I was living in a different body.

I can't believe what a difference 2 1/2 weeks of reduced breathing has made. I can't believe how many of my life long problems are just due to a simple lack of CO2. Why don't people know about this. I got really angry. Angry for how many years I have suffered when there was a simple solution. Angry for how many people are still suffering. Angry that the wrong kinds of breathing practices are so heavily promoted, and that for years I tried to fix what was wrong by doing one of those practices. I've mostly calmed down and am back to feeling grateful. But I am motivated to do more to tell people about this. So here I am typing away on this thread. Luckily one can type without hyperventilating.

 

[tara]

@Sheila,
I agree that there are particular risks for people with epilepsy and migraine issues.
Taping just one side of the mouth, instead of the middle, is another alternative.
I've read, not sure if it was from Buteyko or someone else, that hyperventilation can be a very effective trigger for epilepsy for many people - used to be used deliberately for diagnostic purposes? I would have expected mouth-taping to reduce this risk, but whether it's a net increase or decrease in overall risk, I don't know.

I too have noticed atmospheric pressure change to be a potential migraine trigger - the swelling as pressure drops is how I had been thinking about it too.

 

[tara]

Was it a frolov type device that you used that triggered the migraines?

I got Rakhimovs DIY book, and put together the bottle and tube contraption. Only used a small number of times.

 

[Heidi]

Hi Sheila, a lot of what you wrote fits for me. I'll have to reread your post and mull it over when I'm not so tired. Not sure where you live, but it's bedtime and not morning for me. Pressure change and rainy weather can trigger headaches for me.

I was remembering that Glenn Doman used bag breathing on and had excellent results with treating severely brain injured children. His technique was very controversial because it involved holding a bag over the mouth and nose of a handicapped child, and could potentially suffocate them if done too long. I was thinking about that technique today. It seems like reduced breathing would be especially useful for people with brain injuries and cerebral palsy. But also potentially more dangerous.

 

[barefooter]

I was really dismayed by the lack of good web sites and information on all this. This forum was the only place that I could find that talked about this info in an open minded way. I had heard of Buteyko years ago, but thought it was just for people with asthma.

I am grateful for the Buteyko Method, but I feel like there needs to be a much broader approach that gives people a lot more options. Also, I would love another name. I'm not really doing the Buteyko Method. What does everyone think is the best way to refer to this kind of breathing?

Yeah, there is a real shortage of quality information. No wonder no doctor, naturepath, or therapaist has ever questioned my poor breathing, even when I used to have my mouth open all the time. It's astounding how something as fundamental as breathing is so over looked.

I just started reading The Breath Connection recently, and it's pretty good. It seems to jive well with the ideas of CO2 from Buteyko and Peat, and is a pretty well researched book. The author had a practice treating people with breathing retraining exercises in the US, and was supposedly very successful. In some place I find it lacking in physiology explanations, but I think overall it's solid, and would be a good introduction for people. The author wrote another more technical book called, Hyperventilation Syndrome..., which I'm planning to read next. His books are a bit older, and seem to be mostly overlooked.

I would be happy to work on a website with people. But I would only want to do it with more experienced people involved.

I'd really like to contribute something to the greater good so to speak, once I get more experienced with all this stuff. I feel like there is a real lack of professional, technical material to make it seem legitimate to the average person. I'd like to get a capnometer to measure exhaled CO2, and then perform various demonstrations on video showing the effects of various styes of breathing on CO2 levels, along with a pulse oximeter reading and body temperature.

 

[barefooter]

Thus, in turning to the question of whether someone, apparently 'normal', would wake up uncomfortable with a taped mouth before they caused themselves real damage, I would advise caution. The set of people I observe are obviously much more unstable but if one was really poorly but without epilepsy, one could conceivably get into trouble quickly at night, especially with blood sugar changes and high stress hormones at play. Perhaps start with some looseness, or a 45 degree to normal taping, rather than 90 degrees vertically. Just a thought.

I think it's probably uncommon for most, but I've actually had a bad reaction a few times to taping my mouth at night. Overall I found it very helpful, but I've stopped doing it, because I felt the bad reactions were psychologically damaging (and physically) to me, and I seem to mostly keep my mouth shut in the night if I do reduced breathing exercises before bed.

What's happened is probably 4 times I've woken up with the tape still on around 2-4am, and I'm either hyperventilating through my nose or mouth if the tape is loose enough. I'm honestly not sure what the heck is going on, because I feel very strange, and the first time it happened, it came into my mind that it might be a mild seizure, which seemed crazy to me, but now I've learned that migraine, epilepsy, and panic are all very related. Basically, I'm panicked, but I can't hold a thought for more than a few seconds, it's like my brain is on this strange cycle where it keeps resetting, and I tend to have a ringing in my ears. It's very alarming.

I still think tape is probably safe and effective for most, but I just wanted to share an alternate view, since I do have experience with the opposite. Also, I do have a history of anxiety, but have only ever had a few panic attacks in my life, so I wasn't prone to panic before doing the taping. And I've probably tapped 50 nights, and had problems on 4, although many of the non problem nights I woke up and the tape was missing, so I might have had more problem if the tape was stronger.

 

[tara]

What's happened is probably 4 times I've woken up with the tape still on around 2-4am, and I'm either hyperventilating through my nose or mouth if the tape is loose enough.

Hi. Thanks for telling. Could there have been a low sugar component to these wake ups?
Have you ever woken with this kind of panic/hyperventilation when you did not tape?
I have, though not recently. It's happened when the tape fell off, too. The only thing I've found that helps me then is getting up and moving around.

 

[barefooter]

Hi. Thanks for telling. Could there have been a low sugar component to these wake ups?
Have you ever woken with this kind of panic/hyperventilation when you did not tape?
I have, though not recently. It's happened when the tape fell off, too. The only thing I've found that helps me then is getting up and moving around.

I rarely wake up in the night, but I often hyperventilate while sleeping, as my last girlfriend told me. It usually results in bad dreams and waking up feeling unrested and generally terrible. However, I never woke up with symptoms this severe until I tried taping. I think there is some kind of low blood sugar high lactic acid thing happening, which is causing hyperventilation, that goes unopposed and gets out of control.

Even as a kid, I had poor sleep quality, and was prone to nightmares, but no one ever looked at this as a medical condition. Often I would wake up in middle of the night and be terrified of either aliens landing in my backyard or someone breaking into the house. Looking back on these experiences now, I'm sure they were all hyperventilation related.

I'm sleeping so much better now as a result of getting my diet and exercise dialed in and working on reduced breathing exercises. I've found small amounts daily of low intensity cardio and weight lifting while breathing through the nose to be very beneficial, as it seems to really calibrate my breathing pattern. Pretty much everyone in my family has terrible breathing, and there is a strong history of mental illness. Dad's had terrible depression and multiple suicide attempts, his brother is similar, my grandmas depressed, aunt is too, my sister has dealt with depression off and on, etc. When I spend time with them now, it's alarming how noising their breathing is, lots of gasping for air. Hopefully I can help them with all I've learned.

 

[tara]

I rarely wake up in the night, but I often hyperventilate while sleeping, as my last girlfriend told me. It usually results in bad dreams and waking up feeling unrested and generally terrible. However, I never woke up with symptoms this severe until I tried taping. I think there is some kind of low blood sugar high lactic acid thing happening, which is causing hyperventilation, that goes unopposed and gets out of control.

I wonder whether the taping increased CO2 and therefore also increased the metabolism and rate of sugar-burning, so you hit the low sugar quicker? Just a speculation.
Maybe hyperventilating could be is protective in such circumstances.
If this were the case then the mitigations might be the ones that improve glycogen storage?

Or, another speculation, you didn't happen to measure UpH? I think hyperventilation can temporarily and partially correct an overly acid state. Reduced breathing in this case might force the system pH down a bit low, and case trouble that way?

There are also some potential issues related to reduced breathing and diabetic acidosis, I've read.

 

[Sheila]

In trying to understand the use of the oximeter in this context, Brandonk ably answered a question of mine, and I have repeated the exchange here, in case anyone else is similarly interested. By figuring out 'your normal' and what changes in the oximeter reading mean relative to your breathing and context, one should be able to tell quite a bit about O2/CO2 balance and what affects it most for that person. It might also be useful for those who are more unstable so that a threshold is not accidentally triggered, as yet I do not know. IIRC, Peat mentioned he felt best at 89% O2 saturation.
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Sheila: Does saturation of Hb on the RBC really show oxygen utilisation. Would it be possible to have 99% saturation but no CO2 to release the O2 and similarly, is it possible to have 99% saturation and good release due to (perhaps not hypercapnic levels) but some level of endogenous CO2 that allows gaseous exchange to work properly. To my mind, the oximeter has the same potential problem as the blood glucose monitor, that what is going on in the blood may, or may not represent what is happening in the metabolising tissues."

Brandonk replied: "I think you are quite right and O2 saturation when measured on the fingertip does not by any means demonstrate utilization in the tissue. For example, having a high saturation measured on the fingertip could be an indication of poor utilization (if as is common, the finger is cold and using very little O2). Similarly, having a low saturation on the fingertip could be an indication of high utilization, for example, if you are breathing slowly and utilizing the oxygen throughout your body before it even reaches the fingertip.
Of course, the converse also holds, and low saturation could be sign of respiratory or cardiovascular impairment, so you really can't tell. And high saturation could be a sign that you are hyperventilating or under stress.
The advantage of the oximeter is that relative to your own "normal", you can see the saturation go down when you breathe slowly, meaning that you have likely achieved a higher concentration of CO2 (unless you have emphysema, COPD, or some other respiratory impairment)." [bold by Sheila for emphasis]
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I regret I can not be sure that the theory holds personally as I have not tested it yet, but it seems very reasonable and at least we know what any reading might mean by the context of what generated it. From what I can tell, 99% saturation and you get a gold medal in most circles. After I have had a good play with this monitor, I will happily report.

 

[Sheila]

@Heidi
I am delighted you started this thread and are seeing such progress. As excited as I am about the potential for CO2 improvements, I doubt, with respect, that all your problems were CO2 deficiency. Could not the high degree of positive response you are experiencing also be because of the extensive work you have done on your health already, allowing CO2 to exert more potential quicker than in most? Your previous work suggests you have drive, motivation and persistence and now an intuitive understanding that allows for experimentation rather than following instructions per se. Many people, on different parts of their self-discovery journey, do not (for various reasons) have such a skill set and so even if reduced breathing, both the science and the exercises are explained to them, they do not do it, or persist, or see the value for them at least, at that point.
I saw this by Jacob Riis recently and perhaps it bears reiteration here:
"When nothing seems to help, I go and look at a stonecutter hammering away at his rock perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before."
So, congratulations for the hard work you have put in before you found the CO2 piece of the puzzle, and for writing to share your journey here and starting this fascinating thread off.
You may have read in Dr Rakhimov's breathing retraining manual (short free version p. 29)
"3.5 Other hypocapnia-related abnormalities
Among other effects of CO2 deficiency are:
- abnormal excitability and irritability of nerve cells (e.g., Brown, 1953; Krnjevic, 1965; Balestrino &
Somjen, 1988; Huttunen et al, 1999);
- irritable state of muscles (muscular tension) (Brown, 1953; Hudlicka, 1973);"
and I think it relates to your new found muscular freedom perfectly.
I am fascinated with your lessened reaction to bee-stings, essentially lowered chemical reactivity which, to my way of thinking is immediately metabolic improvement. (Most hypothyroid/lowered metabolism people have heightened, in some cases vastly heightened sensitivity to chemicals, noises, most external triggers).
So great observations thanks, particularly interesting for me as we also have bees.
Sincerely,
Sheila

 

[tara]

I regret I can not be sure that the theory holds personally as I have not tested it yet, but it seems very reasonable and at least we know what any reading might mean by the context of what generated it. From what I can tell, 99% saturation and you get a gold medal in most circles. After I have had a good play with this monitor, I will happily report.

Have fun playing with the meter. If you get to thinking you can tell anything systematically from it for yourself or others you test it on, that'd be interesting.

But I don't see why the oximeter numbers wouldn't continue to vary according to a number of variables, not just CO2, and be a pretty unreliable guide to what else is going on other than just the blood oxygen saturation? If you also happen to have an expensive capnometer, then I guess you can look at the relationship between the O2 and CO2.

But can't people who are sensitive to sudden increases in CO2 or drops in O2 figure this out pretty quickly without the use of an oximeter?

 

[barefooter]

Have fun playing with the meter. If you get to thinking you can tell anything systematically from it for yourself or others you test it on, that'd be interesting.

But I don't see why the oximeter numbers wouldn't continue to vary according to a number of variables, not just CO2, and be a pretty unreliable guide to what else is going on other than just the blood oxygen saturation? If you also happen to have an expensive capnometer, then I guess you can look at the relationship between the O2 and CO2.

But can't people who are sensitive to sudden increases in CO2 or drops in O2 figure this out pretty quickly without the use of an oximeter?

I've been experimenting with my oximeter the past few days, and I am finding the relative numbers align pretty well to how I'm feeling and am breathing. On average, I'm at 96%, but if I'm stressed out or not feeling great for other reasons, I usually see numbers over 97%. If I do reduced breathing exercises, I see it drop towards 94%. I did a test and hyperventilated while wearing it for a minute, and went from 95% - 99%. I then relaxed my breathing for two minutes, and dropped to 94%.

I just recently came home and was feeling pretty beat after helping my sister out, which was a bit high stress. I was feeling tired, and read 97% on the oximeter. As a test, I took a teaspoon of baking soda in water, and sat under my heat lamps and did 3 minutes of bag breathing. At the end of this, I was feeling warm, relaxed, alert, and had a reading of 92%. All of my readings so far align pretty well with what I'd expect from the relationship between CO2 and O2 hemoglobin binding affinity.

So yes, I agree you don't need an oximeter, and I'm sure there are lots of inaccuracies, but it seams to be a cheap (mine was only $20) and useful diagnostic tool. For some people, I think it's also helpful to see some numbers to show them they're making improvements. It can be exciting, and inspire you to try even harder.

 

[Blossom]

But I don't see why the oximeter numbers wouldn't continue to vary according to a number of variables, not just CO2, and be a pretty unreliable guide to what else is going on other than just the blood oxygen saturation? If you also happen to have an expensive capnometer, then I guess you can look at the relationship between the O2 and CO2.

But can't people who are sensitive to sudden increases in CO2 or drops in O2 figure this out pretty quickly without the use of an oximeter?

I find the biggest problem with oximeters is that there are so many variables that can effect the reading and sometimes a person will get fixated on the spo2 number and give it more attention than it deserves above and beyond how they actually feel. There is certainly nothing wrong with using an oximeter from time to time but I don't find measuring it is a Peat essential like temp and pulse for example.
IIRC when Peat mentioned his oxygen saturation of 89% he was speaking of his experience at altitude where we would expect it to be a little lower. Hypoxia is bad but having higher than necessary oxygen isn't optimal either.

This is just my personal experience from working with oximeters for close to two decades: Try not let small fluctuations ruin your day because they are normal. Avoid giving the number too much meaning especially if your breathing is fine and your nail beds and mucous membranes are pink. Always sit still while taking your reading because movement will interfere with getting a reliable result. Hopefully since we are Peaty here everyone using one will have warm fingers because this is important too. Give the oximeter a good 30-60 seconds to pick up a steady signal for the most accurate result because the first number that appears isn't always true. Just wanted to add these small practical tid bits incase it might help anyone new to this device.

I really think an oximeter with an alarm is overkill unless a person is hospitalized. The only one with an alarm that I could find for sale online via a quick Google search was $889.00 USD. I'm sure with enough digging a better deal could be found but the alarm does seem to jack up the price quite a bit compared to the $20 models I've seen.

I highly doubt a person covering their head or taping their mouth shut at night is going to get into a dangerous hypoxic episode. Our body has an awesome built in alarm (that free) and will wake us in a panic if the oxygen saturation drops too low or too rapidly. Obviously in situations of intoxication taping the mouth shut or covering ones head is probably not wise incase the internal signals get jammed!

 

[Heidi]

Yeah, there is a real shortage of quality information. No wonder no doctor, naturepath, or therapaist has ever questioned my poor breathing, even when I used to have my mouth open all the time. It's astounding how something as fundamental as breathing is so over looked.

This is exactly how I feel and is why I am having this strong emotional response underneath. Breathing is so basic. "The Bohr effect was first described in 1904" according to http://www.normalbreathing.com/CO2-bohr-effect.php Why aren't people in the health field trained to notice breathing problems and help people with them? Why isn't basic information about breathing more readily available, and why is so much misinformation being spread.?

I think it's probably uncommon for most, but I've actually had a bad reaction a few times to taping my mouth at night. Overall I found it very helpful, but I've stopped doing it, because I felt the bad reactions were psychologically damaging (and physically) to me, and I seem to mostly keep my mouth shut in the night if I do reduced breathing exercises before bed.

What's happened is probably 4 times I've woken up with the tape still on around 2-4am, and I'm either hyperventilating through my nose or mouth if the tape is loose enough. I'm honestly not sure what the heck is going on, because I feel very strange, and the first time it happened, it came into my mind that it might be a mild seizure, which seemed crazy to me, but now I've learned that migraine, epilepsy, and panic are all very related. Basically, I'm panicked, but I can't hold a thought for more than a few seconds, it's like my brain is on this strange cycle where it keeps resetting, and I tend to have a ringing in my ears. It's very alarming.

I still think tape is probably safe and effective for most, but I just wanted to share an alternate view, since I do have experience with the opposite. Also, I do have a history of anxiety, but have only ever had a few panic attacks in my life, so I wasn't prone to panic before doing the taping. And I've probably tapped 50 nights, and had problems on 4, although many of the non problem nights I woke up and the tape was missing, so I might have had more problem if the tape was stronger.

I really appreciate people sharing bad reactions/opposing experiences. And also I hope people keep feeling free to express different opinions here. The different perspectives feel very helpful, and are keeping me cautious and open minded, so that I don't lock into any one thing too fast. Because of your experience my mouth is taped loosely enough that I could breath through it if my body really needed to. But I don't think there's a need.

 

[brandonk]

I have this one with an alarm ($40), it takes me a few seconds to get what seems a consistent reading, and for me even when out walking or bike riding, it seems to have the same consistency (but I could be wrong):

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H8MXR1M/

- Alarm can be set to high and low for blood oxygen and pulse.

A quick search shows that "In healthy volunteers, oximeters commonly have a mean difference (bias) of <2% and a standard deviation (precision) of <3% when SaO2is 90% or above."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3342658/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2712278/

And then there's this, found by another member here:

Alzheimer’s disease and dementia are often considered to be the end result of an episode of hypoxia (lack of oxygen), which can occur through a stroke or concussion earlier in life. ... This study looks at the possibility that episodes of hypoxia can occur when individuals sleep in any microenvironment that becomes increasingly short of oxygen due to rebreathing. Rebreathing can occur when any individual inhales air that they have just exhaled. If this occurs in a restricted space, the result would be the depletion of oxygen over time accompanied by an increase in carbon dioxide. These microenvironments can occur when any individual sleeps with their head partially or completely covered by bedding, such as blankets, sheets, or pillows.

links to

https://sites.google.com/site/rebreathingsite/survey-results