Sunmountain's Log

[Peata]

I think greek yogurt and gelatin bloat me some. I can do small amounts - 1/2 c. yogurt or cottage cheese at a time and seem to do OK.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Hi sunmountain...I too have found that taking the time to learn how to feed myself properly and heal has been somewhat isolating. My situation is a little different in that I was so hypothyroid for decades that I lost most of my "friends" early on (decades ago) as I only had enough energy to raise my kids and run my business, there was nothing left for any kind of social life beyond that.

When I embarked on my first health kick back in 2011 I lost a TON of weight and most of my symptoms disappeared. I had my life back, but ever so briefly. During this "honeymoon" phase, which only lasted two years, I was able to catch up with many people that I had not seen in years and actually go out on dates!!!!

As you all know, new and pressing health problems emerged after eating high fat low carb for so long. I completely crashed and had to go back to the drawing board...so yeah, I can totally relate, TWICE over.

This second health overhaul has been thoroughly different in every aspect. It's resulted in a total and complete life change which has certainly left a permanent effect on how I view EVERYTHING, including the people closest to me...I'm still not done sorting it all out. One thing is for certain though, I can never go back. Things will never be the same.

You will emerge from the fog/bloat/ache-y/tired/depressed state. Peating certainly isn't a quick fix though. I had initially set aside one year thinking that would be long enough, it wasn't. Year number two is going much much better.....I still have not arrived, but thank God I'm NOT where I used to be. I don't anticipate crashing ever again as I now understand what factors lead up to that occurrence. Doesn't mean there won't be fluctuations and adjustments along the way, that's just life.

I am easing my way back in to working. Like Peata I am getting the itch to do stuff again. I like to be creative and am eager to start my new adventure from a much more stable (health-wise) perspective. My guess is that I will be working full-time by my two year Peat Anniversary this Fall (after I engage in some Aimless Wandering)....I'm also considering going back to school as another possible option ...so who knows?

 

[Jennifer]

+1 to what Blossom, Peata and theBP have said.

I'm glad to hear the spasms have mostly subsided, sunmountain. That's great news! Though, I'm sorry to hear your still dealing with the bloat and fatigue.

I took the SIBO test a few years ago and it came back negative. I found out later that instead of being measure in parts per million, it should have been measured in parts per billion because some people are more sensitive. So my advice, make sure they measure in parts per billion so you get as accurate a reading as possible. Despite this, my current doctor went ahead and prescribed me Rifaximin, but my insurance wouldn't cover it. Since it would of cost me over $800 out of pocket, my doctor put me on Neomycin instead, which is a cheaper alternative and another safe, non-absorbed antibiotic.

Bacteria, particularly overgrowths in the small intestine where it should be relatively sterile, love indigestible foods, starches and fibers. That's the reason I've been doing this crazy fiber and starch free diet. So sugars like fruit juice, honey and white sugar shouldn't feed the critters because they're easily absorbed in the small intestine.

Your fatigue could very well be part of the healing/rebuilding your body is going through. Though, I know that's no consolation so many of us here can sympathize with what you're going through and all I can say is it will get better.

Another problem with this whole recovery thing is how it slowly cuts you off from friends. I miss my hiking friends. I miss inviting friends to dinner. I miss going dancing. I can't date with SIBO going on. These days I just lay on my bed, too tired to do much beyond cooking. Today I went for a walk with a friend, and came back exhausted. It was almost not worth it.

Oh gosh! I know, sunmountain! I miss all my hiking friends too. We use to have the best time together. A couple months ago I saw a facebook post from one of them saying how the group of them hiked a projector up into the mountains and camped out watching the Wizard of Oz, my favorite movie of all time. They're always doing cool things like that in the mountains and I miss it so.

But then I remember a group of women in their late seventies that I met up with when my brother and I first started out hiking. What you and I are doing, sunmountain, is insuring that we'll be able to hike well into our 70s and beyond because we will have built a solid foundation of health that we wouldn't have had had our bodies not been so vocal about their deterioration.

I just read lookingforanswers post and felt sad. I too am spending a lot of time doing health research. Maybe I should read a book instead, even an e-book is fine. The internet is amazing and addictive, and it's so easy to lose balance. But I do like coming to the forum because there is no one else who can understand my illness and recovery the way we do here. In fact, friends and family keep urging me to give up this "nutritional plan" because clearly it has gotten me in worse health. That is an added stressor, as I am sure everyone here well knows.

I too was saddened by lookingforanswers' post, but also happy for him. I agree it's healthy to stop viewing ourselves as our illnesses and to not let ourselves become consumed with research. I still like to visit the forum, but now you'll find me in your logs and not so much in the "science" threads. I'm confident in my plan and prefer not to get sidetracked with researching health. This only leads me to doubt myself and I need to keep things simple.

Despite me missing my hiking friends, who I just so happened to meet on a hiking forum , I've met some amazing people here and so to me, my time is anything but wasted coming here. I've had wonderful conversations with you all and I feel better for having met you. That means something to me. :)

 

[charlie]

Charlie, I'm excited about your light bulb. I'm having a 6-oz cup of Nancy's greek probiotic yogurt everday with 2T each sugar and fructose. I have it because it has a whopping 22g protein in a small 6-oz cup. None of the other brands come close for this much protein.

But you may be right about this. I have noticed some bloating after the yogurt though hard to say cuz bloated all the time. So I will lay off the yogurt for some time. Of course that means I struggle harder for protein (can't do gelatin), so may eat some starch like bread which also has protein to compensate. Or beans. Just until I figure out the yogurt.

As I was riding home from the store today I was thinking, how in the world am I gonna get my protein now. Back to milk, I guess. No way I can do starches, any kind of starch right now sets off a bad reaction in my guts. I even looked at the sliced turkey today and could not find anything without a ton of terrible extras put in it.

How much doxy will you take and how long? I guess not mino for you based on your past experience...

I would do minocycline again if I had to. As someone said recently, its incredibly strong. I know now to make sure getting enough minerals while taking mino. I am grateful to have the doxycycline on hand.

I was reading the Peatarian exchanges yesterday and ran across this, so gonna give it a shot....

Antibiotics
No, I just do it occasionally.

I usually break the tablets up, and use fourths or halves, at intervals according to need. It's important to get some vitamin K1 or K2 when you use an antibiotic (liver or kale, or supplements). Have you checked your thyroid? Low thyroid function is usually behind the dark circles.

For myself, I judge by symptoms; if I feel an effect from a first dose, I take a smaller dose, usually 100mg, the next time, and similar amounts as long as the symptom is decreasing, and when I don't notice any symptom, I take a few smaller doses.

Since most people get some vitamin K from intestinal bacteria, it's important to eat liver or to take a K supplement if you use antibiotics for a long time. After a first big dose or two, you should be able to sense when you have enough in your tissues; it has a noticeable smell or sensation while exhaling. I have found that 3 doses of 100mg per day for a few days is usually enough, after one or two bigger doses.

 

[charlie]

Wait...I just checked and realize that Nancy's cottage cheese also has live cultures in it! I eat almost a cup of it daily in quiche and cheesecake!!!!!!!

I'm flooded with "good" bacteria!!!!!

The cottage cheese and greek yogurt are my protein mainstays, helping me reach almost 100g on crono daily.

Well, crap. Yogurt and cottage cheese was how I was getting a lot of my protein. I just checked the Daisy cottage cheese and it says "cultured skim milk". So yeh, back to milk for now until I can figure out how to replace it for some different protein.

I will be so relieved if this takes care of the SIBO.

 

[Peata]

I even looked at the sliced turkey today and could not find anything without a ton of terrible extras put in it.

I did the exact same thing today. It's not just nitrites and other preservatives, they gotta put carreegenan and gunk in it.

 

[Jennifer]

Charlie,

I'm not sure if this will be of any help, but what about ricotta? I've found a few brands that make their ricotta with nothing but whole milk, vinegar and salt. Most are store brands, but there's Calabro that Whole Foods and the Fresh Market (Don't know if you have one near you) carry. Instead of listing vinegar they call it a starter, but I contacted the company and they said it's vinegar. Another brand called lamagna is carried at many markets including Walmart and lastly there's Organic Valley's ricotta.

http://calabrocheese.com
http://lamagnacheese.com
http://www.organicvalley.coop/products/cheese/ricotta/

For sliced turkey breast with clean ingredients, I was getting the Plainville brand oven roasted honey and also the Organic Prairie brand. Just a warning since you're avoiding starch, the Plainville does contain less than 2% native potato starch. If you check Organic Prairie's overstock section, you can get the sliced turkey for a great deal.

http://plainvillefarms.com/products/con ... deli-meat/
http://www.organicprairie.com/prod_deta ... /overstock

 

[sunmountain]

Some great posts here that I will reply shortly.

My daughter started progest-e day 14 and then forgot 2 days after a bit. She's hit with PMS right now even though it is too early in her cycle to be feeling PMS. Only because she jumped 2 days of progest-e. Is there any guidance on whether it's ok to resume it after forgetting it like this?

thanks

 

[tara]

Wait...I just checked and realize that Nancy's cottage cheese also has live cultures in it! I eat almost a cup of it daily in quiche and cheesecake!!!!!!!

I'm flooded with "good" bacteria!!!!!

The cottage cheese and greek yogurt are my protein mainstays, helping me reach almost 100g on crono daily.

Well, crap. Yogurt and cottage cheese was how I was getting a lot of my protein. I just checked the Daisy cottage cheese and it says "cultured skim milk". So yeh, back to milk for now until I can figure out how to replace it for some different protein.

I will be so relieved if this takes care of the SIBO.

If milk is too wet for you to use as major protein source, then home made fresh cheese, with no cultures and no gums and no preservatives (unless you count salting to taste) is very easy.

Heat milk to just short of boiling. Add vinegar. Stir. Strain. Add salt to taste. Eat (or make into cheesecake etc). ~20 minutes, most of which is heating the milk gently so it doesn't burn on the bottom of the pot.

If you can get animal rennet locally, that makes for even better taste, but takes a bit longer.
Add a few drops of rennet to milk at c. 42 deg C, leave for several hours to set. You can eat it at this stage if you like it. Or heat gently to separate curds, strain. May need cloth to strain, rather than just a regular seive - the curds are softer than with the vinegar method, and I lost a bit through the sieve first time).

You can also make other flavours of junket pudding, but I think what you are both after is the higher density protein of the strained curd.

 

[sunmountain]

Charlie,

I compared cottage cheese, ricotta, and homemade farmer's cheese for protein content. According to crono, farmer's cheese has double protein of the other two. 1 oz has 6-7g protein in farmer cheese. Ricotta has less than 3g, and cottage about 3.5g.

So I got a gallon 1% milk and made farmer cheese. I just finished making cheesecake with it and about to eat a slice. I've lately been making a cheesecake and cottage cheese quiche on weekend, and eating a slice of each for lunch/snack through the week. Now I'll use farmer instead of cottage and get DOUBLE protein. Hah!

I'll need that double protein as I'm dropping my 22g greek yogurt.

I'm still drinking goat milk, no more than couple of 8oz cups a day for now in the hopes of building more tolerance.

Here is another easy protein idea. Make a big pot of this, and dig in. BigP has a great recipe somewhere, which is a version of ceviche. Chopped, cooked shrimp, diced cucumber and tomoto, minced onion, in a lime and salt dressing. I just ate a bowlful of it.

Next I will try making a quiche with farmer's cheese. It should turn out ok; if so, I'm set. I've ditched the cottage cheese for double the protein. With this change, I should be able to still meet my protein goals.

Of course, now we have to see if Charlie's and my guts respond well to no more "good" bacteria...

 

[sunmountain]

Ray's quote on antibiotic dosage above is interesting. He says he LOWERS the dose to 100mg if the initial dose is working. I wonder what his starting dose is. What dose do you plan to start at, Charlie?

Also are dosages for doxy and mino comparable?

Jennifer, I saw that Rifaximin is available on AllDayChemist for quite a reasonable price. The name is very different, though, and I don't remember it offhand.

And how do I get them to measure parts per billion? Whom do I ask and what script do I say?

I absolutely LOVE your image of us hiking into our seventies! What a lovely perspective on our current struggles! THANK YOU for that!!

BP and Peata, it's wonderful that you're feeling the urge to work again! You have excess energy, which is so great! I don't know how I'll last if I don't see some improvement in at least the fatigue, because the urge to get out and about is so strong. I suppose I should be grateful that the life force at least is strong, even if the body can't keep up. Though lately it seemed the life force was dimming...

Does anyone know how much B12 is ok to take? I've just been taking a drop, but read that SIBO causes a major B12 deficiency. So how much is it ok to take? Should I ask doc for a shot if it turns out that I have SIBO?

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Ha ha....I made the shrimp/tomato/cucumber/onion salad tonight too. I made it with TONS of lime juice cuz I had a bunch of limes, so refreshing!!!

 

[SQu]

About yoghurt - it made a big difference to my fatigue and aching when I stopped that and commercial cottage cheese. I assume the lactic acid.

 

[sunmountain]

One day without yogurt or cottage cheese with cultures. Fatigue is markedly less.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Does anyone know how much B12 is ok to take? I've just been taking a drop, but read that SIBO causes a major B12 deficiency. So how much is it ok to take? Should I ask doc for a shot if it turns out that I have SIBO?

I took B complex shots (in the butt cheek) from my doctor last year when I was having so much digestive trouble. I took them weekly and they made me feel AWESOME!!! I had blood tested anemic for B12 when she suspected SIBO last year. After I quit the shots I moved on to 5000 mcg sub-lingual tabs for several months and then dropped it to 2500 mcg this year. I'll probably test again in the next few months to see where my levels are. I realize these are high dosages, but I was experiencing some major malabsorption that I believe was a result of the microbial mayhem going on in my guts. So please keep that in mind as your mileage may vary :2cents

 

[SQu]

One day without yogurt or cottage cheese with cultures. Fatigue is markedly less.

Cool! Aching and fatigue were my biggest symptoms for years. I ate a lot of yoghurt...

 

[Peat's_Girl]

Oh crap... I had no idea!

I just bought a kilo of cottage cheese ;s

 

[cantstoppeating]

If you're having gut issues with the protein source (milk, cheese, yoghurt) then you're better off using something like micellar casein protein powder. Peat's objection to protein powders is that they lack nutrients and/or they contain impurities from the manufacturing process.

To address them, one need not bother with whey protein, which often contains added tryptophan and is devoid of calcium and other nutrients, and not purchase protein from a supplier that does not supply a Certificate Of Analysis (COA).

This leaves us with casein protein powder. It contains calcium, phosphorous and other nutrients. It does not have added tryptophan and commonly has the same amino acid profile as regular milk. It also contains no lactose, bacteria or any other added problematic stuff.

Since a minimum amount of protein is critical to improving liver function, casein protein can be seen as a valuable source for getting enough protein without all the other stomach and gut issues. Treat it as a temporary source for a few months until you get things stabilised enough to handle milk protein.

 

[Jennifer]

If you're having gut issues with the protein source (milk, cheese, yoghurt) then you're better off using something like micellar casein protein powder. Peat's objection to protein powders is that they lack nutrients and/or they contain impurities from the manufacturing process.

To address them, one need not bother with whey protein, which often contains added tryptophan and is devoid of calcium and other nutrients, and not purchase protein from a supplier that does not supply a Certificate Of Analysis (COA).

cantstoppeating, is there a particular brand of MCP powder you like best that you would recommend?

 

[cantstoppeating]

If you're having gut issues with the protein source (milk, cheese, yoghurt) then you're better off using something like micellar casein protein powder. Peat's objection to protein powders is that they lack nutrients and/or they contain impurities from the manufacturing process.

To address them, one need not bother with whey protein, which often contains added tryptophan and is devoid of calcium and other nutrients, and not purchase protein from a supplier that does not supply a Certificate Of Analysis (COA).

cantstoppeating, is there a particular brand of MCP powder you like best that you would recommend?

I'm in europe so my current supplier is http://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/micellar-casein.html.

I would have recommended purebulk as a source, but their protein contains soy lecithen. I'm sure there's a similar bulk supplier that sells regular micellar casein protein, it's a very common supplement.

Combine MCP with some glycine or gelatin and you'll have a very potent anti-stress protein source without all the digestive/stomach issues.