The Lower Your Cortisol Levels, The Younger You Look

[Nebula]

Correct. Thats why Im not telling people how much I take. Since it varries.

Orange Juice is the richest source of Naturally occuring citrates. Also loaded with pot/mag like you said.

Really interesting. I assumed citrate and citric acid were interchangeable in the body. I didn’t know citrus fruit juice contains a lot of citrate and the potassium is mostly in the form of potassium citrate.

I found a study putting citrate content for orange juice at 47.36 mmol/L, which converts to about 9 g/L.

I guess it does make a lot of sense that human biochemistry evolved around a high amount of exogenous citrate and potassium if tropical fruit and fructose was the abundant food source that allowed for the highest metabolism.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Really interesting. I assumed citrate and citric acid were interchangeable in the body. I didn’t know citrus fruit juice contains a lot of citrate and the potassium is mostly in the form of potassium citrate.

I found a study putting citrate content for orange juice at 47.36 mmol/L, which converts to about 9 g/L.

I guess it does make a lot of sense that human biochemistry evolved around a high amount of exogenous citrate and potassium if tropical fruit and fructose was the abundant food source that allowed for the highest metabolism.

Yeap.
The Kidneys also didn't keep up with evolution and our sudden jump in both protein intake as well as life span.

We can see the acidity in records of nobles who sat on their **** and ate meat (gout)

 

[Bootselectric]

To everyone wondering about the dosage, this supplement might be a good reference:
Melcalin MgK

182mg Magnesium
879mg Potassium

 

[hei]

Isn't the body constantly producing citric acid? Why does ingesting a few grams more make a difference?

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Yeap.
The Kidneys also didn't keep up with evolution and our sudden jump in both protein intake as well as life span.

We can see the acidity in records of nobles who sat on their **** and ate meat (gout)

How much salt( as in sodium chloride) are you ingesting per day currently?

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Isn't the body constantly producing citric acid? Why does ingesting a few grams more make a difference?

In terms of kidney health, the excess citrate we ingest can get excreted just like that, and it will prevent kidney stones. When the citrate is inside cells, they want to turn it into CO2 and water to produce ATP and keep the electron flow going. If the cells excrete too much citrate( which is the first step of Krebs' Cycle), they won't be able to keep up the ATP or electron flow. I think the ingested citrate can be very helpful mainly when people ingest a lot of net acid producing foods. The metabolism itself does produce bicarbonate. When bicarbonate is low, the body excretes less citrate, since it's using it to produce more bicarbonate. So the better the metabolism( more CO2 production), the less need for exogenous citrate, I think.

 

[Inaut]

I like this discussion about citrate. Thanks everyone.

 

[Adrienlcrx]

@Amarsh213 I like your advises in citrate supplementation! what is the best to take the combo magnesium/potassium citrate in your exeprience? After exercise before a meal maybe?

 

[BetterCallSaul]

I have potassium citrate and magnesium citrate arriving in a couple of weeks. I’ll be experimenting with the dosages alongside increasing my cardiovascular training. Since electrolytes are lost through sweating and exercise, I will be supplementing both before and after exercise.

 

[Ihor]

@Amarsh213 This is interesting enough, you can create a separate thread with your experience of adding citrates to improve ph, add some links with ideas where it came from, the results of measuring urine ph with ph-strips etc., I think others would be interested to discuss this, just with a current name of this thread is not very convenient to discuss this theme.

 

[Inaut]

@Amarsh213 This is interesting enough, you can create a separate thread with your experience of adding citrates to improve ph, add some links with ideas where it came from, the results of measuring urine ph with ph-strips etc., I think others would be interested to discuss this, just with a current name of this thread is not very convenient to discuss this theme.

Thanks @Ihor. My thoughts as well

 

[Sam321]

"Through self-education and self-experimentation we can regain authority over our own health and wellbeing."- Danny Roddy

Haha. Im not gonna go back and edit or delete every one of my posts. This is a learning through experimentation and sharing experience/ideas with others

Two years ago, after "Peating"(milk/eggs/danny roddy/haidut stuff) for 2 years, I was 5'10 210lbs and NW3

Now I'm 26 now and 175lbs at 5'10 nw2 with libido throw roof with abbs and shrink wrapped face.

Today I ate

Breakfast
150mg Caffine
14 oz OJ
Canned of Sardines with Olive Oil
3x Beef Oragan Pills and 10k UI Vitamin D, small dose of vitamin K to activate the fat soulable signals.

Lunch I had Philly cheese steak and hasbrowns 1/2

3 Pm I had Philly Cheese steak with hashbrowns. 1/2 Tastes so good

Worked Out

Dinner Had a big plate of potatos, Sardines, Orange Juice, organ pills 3x(ancestrial brand)

Had a class of orange juice later.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyways. The Bicarbonate and Citrate Stuff is of utmost importance. Just read these lines

"When bicarbonate [HCO3- levels are low, the kidneys upregulate glutaminase activity and trigger cortisol production [35-37]." "Dietary induction of acidosis increases serum cortisol concentrations [38].""

"Excessive or chronic cortisol production acquired from a ‘Western’ dietary lifestyle could play a role in augmenting the tryptophan metabolism pathway and drive downstream molecular events that promote carcinogenesis."

""Upregulated cortisol bioactivity driven by diet-induced acidosis may be a factor in metabolic syndrome by promoting insulin resistance. Chronic hyperglucocorticoidism upregulates visceral obesity while reducing insulin sensitivity mainly in visceral adipocytes which appear to be more responsive to cortisol than subcutaneous adipocytes due to higher expression levels of glucocorticoid receptors [58,59].""


That cures about 99% of peoples problem on here.

Once you figure out you need to filer out some excess CO2 production through the lungs and also have plenty of Citrates in the Diet. Your Cortisol will tank and once cortisol tanks, so does estrogen/insulin/trytophan--sertonin pathway...etc. Then you can eat whatever the heck you want like a kid agian( exclusing PUFA) and your metabolism is Running Like a dieasal Engine.
I think ingesting the organic acids( citrate, malate etc.) instead of straight bicarbonate is safer in terms of getting rid of excess alkalinity. Also, it doesn't interfere with stomach acid.

I too am interested in how much magnesium and potassium you're supplementing, @Amarsh213. That thread of Amazoniac is indeed gold.

I switched from magnesium chloride to magnesium bicarbonate at the very end of 2018, and never really looked back. Magnesium chloride, since it has the chloride anion, can be very problematic for people with already high cortisol. The bicarbonate, especially in these cases, is therapeutic, since it lowers cortisol. I believe this switch was very important for me to recover from muscle atrophy, particularly in my arms.Right now I supplement with calcium citrate, magnesium bicarbonate and potassium malate.

Another benefit from citrate is that it prevents kidney stones. The less citrate you urinate, the more acidic your body is( because the citrate, instead of simply being excreted in the urine, is being converted by the body into bicarbonate to neutralize the acidity), so the less potassium and organic acids/ bicarbonate you eat, the higher the risk to have kidney stones.

Pics or it didn't happen.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Pics or it didn't happen.

You want a picture of my kidney?

 

[Sam321]

You want a picture of my kidney?

Did I stutter?

 

[Sefton10]

Potassium citrate looks a relatively clean and cheap thing to supplement.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

View attachment 22462

Potassium citrate looks a relatively clean and cheap thing to supplement.

I just bought a kilo of USP potassium citrate( from a national Brazilian brand). Pretty cheap. And it's about 38% potassium by weight.

 

[Nebula]

So I’ve been reacting one teaspoon of baking soda with 4 tablespoons lemon juice concentrate and then adding it to a cup of orange juice. A few times per day between meals. That should have fully converted the bicarbonate into citrate.

I’m definitely starting to get the cortisol lowering effect. Getting sleepier after sunset. I took a magnesium oxide pill I had laying around and slept deeper too, so citrate and bicarbonate in the cell seems to make magnesium behave correctly. I don’t get this effect reliably with just plain baking soda dissolved in water, so citrate does seem superior.

I’m thinking I will try potassium bicarbonate next to see how the effects compare. I’m sure I could use more potassium. Most of the potassium citrate powders I see online look kind of sketchy and unreliable in quality. I see a lot of reviews describing it having strange chemical smells and flavor. Also that it eventually oxidizes where it’s exposed to air into potassium oxide, so it’s maybe best to prepare it freshly by reacting potassium bicarbonate with lemon/orange juice or a very pure source of citric acid powder if you can find one. Buying the citrate powders also makes you miss out on making an effervescent bicarbonate volcano. You wouldn’t want that would you? I would hope not.

Great research @Amarsh213. It agrees with a lot of my own observations and experiments with Peating. No diet or exercise routine seems to work well without sufficient buffering capacity.

 

[Ihor]

It's an intermediate in the Krebs' Cycle like citrate, and I once saw a chart comparing the amount of CO2 generated by multiple compounds, and malate could be used to produce CO2 with no problems, so I think both malate and citrate are good.

I don't understand, so it mean malic acid has alkaline affect on pH like bicarbonate or it convert to bicarbonate as was mentioned?
Apples juice has a lot of malic acid. After apple juice, I became warm and breathing deepened, there is no this affect from other sources of sugar, it seems to happen after baking soda, but less, it is hardly fructose or vitamins which are almost absent in apple juice, is it possible that it alkalizing effect of malic acid? I can't find in google relationship between malic acid and bicarbonate.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

I don't understand, so it mean malic acid has alkaline affect on pH like bicarbonate or it convert to bicarbonate as was mentioned?
Apples juice has a lot of malic acid. After apple juice, I became warm and breathing deepened, there is no this affect from other sources of sugar, it seems to happen after baking soda, but less, it is hardly fructose or vitamins which are almost absent in apple juice, is it possible that it alkalizing effect of malic acid? I can't find in google relationship between malic acid and bicarbonate.

Malic acid by itself is acidic( it releases hydrogens), and it is basically hydrogen+ malate. The ingested malate goes into the Kreb's Cycle and gets metabolized. If you look at the Krebs' Cycle components, you'll see that malate produced all the time by cells. If the person has a problem, say, in the PDH enzyme( which produces acetyl CoA from pyruvate), then ingesting malate directly( from apple juice for example) can be beneficial. The final product of cell respiration, whether you start with glucose or with citrate or with malate, is CO2 and water( which get turned into bicarbonate). Also, since malate's position in the Krebs' Cycle is right before oxaloacetate, an influx of exogenous malate could help regenerate it. Low oxaloacetate could worsen glutamate sensitivity, according to Chris Masterjohn.

Have you tried ingesting, say, a 50 gram dose of half sucrose+ half fructose? When I did this, I noticed deeper breathing and great sleep. That plus malic acid( such as in apple juice) could have an even stronger effect.

 

[Nebula]

Malic acid by itself is acidic( it releases hydrogens), and it is basically hydrogen+ malate. The ingested malate goes into the Kreb's Cycle and gets metabolized. If you look at the Krebs' Cycle components, you'll see that malate produced all the time by cells. If the person has a problem, say, in the PDH enzyme( which produces acetyl CoA from pyruvate), then ingesting malate directly( from apple juice for example) can be beneficial. The final product of cell respiration, whether you start with glucose or with citrate or with malate, is CO2 and water( which get turned into bicarbonate). Also, since malate's position in the Krebs' Cycle is right before oxaloacetate, an influx of exogenous malate could help regenerate it. Low oxaloacetate could worsen glutamate sensitivity, according to Chris Masterjohn.

Have you tried ingesting, say, a 50 gram dose of half sucrose+ half fructose? When I did this, I noticed deeper breathing and great sleep. That plus malic acid( such as in apple juice) could have an even stronger effect.

Interesting, abundant citrate and malate consumption are a lot more effective at stimulating the Krebs cycle than I assumed. Maybe human and primate metabolism are more dependent on a high intake of citrate and malate due to a long evolutionary history with acidic fruits as a main source of energy.