The vaccine is probably only as bad (or a little worse) than the supposed virus

[lvysaur]

The spike protein is what causes the damage IMO.

I think the vaccine is not as harmful as people say. I think that most of its harm comes from the spike protein.
Contracting the virus naturally will also give you the spike protein, and causes many problems.
The symptoms that I've seen on the longhauler and vaccinelonghauler subreddits seem to be mostly the same

The vaccine does have additional concerns, like adjuvants, the amount of spike protein produced (is it too much at one time?), etc. But also, the flipside (perhaps the amount of spike protein produced from a vaccine is actually LESS than the supposed virus?) I don't know.

There is a huge cohort of vaxees who go on to become "vaccine long haulers", just as "covid long haulers" have existed since March 2020. I was a covid long hauler since March, and I became fully better around February 2021. I won't say "fully cured" because I don't think it's possible to become 100% cured of something like this.

Basically, if someone contracts covid OR is given a vaccine:
- most people feel nothing
- minority (~20%) become "long haulers"
- even smaller minority (1%) die
vaccine deaths are hidden but I feel it's safe to assume that the death toll is not much higher than that of actual covid. The trajectories of both the vaccine and the supposed virus are so similar that it intuitively feels as if they are almost the same thing.

If they are basically the same thing, it means in theory, for many people, most of their vaccine side effects should subside in roughly 1 year from the vaccination date.

However, continued exposure to the spike protein will worsen your condition. I got "reinfected" in October 2021, and I still have some lingering symptoms. In some ways, it was milder than my first infection, and in other ways it was more severe.
- The rash on my fingers was more severe, and also the "kidney" (perhaps intestinal) pain
- The tachycardia was milder (160 bpm instead of 300+), the fatigue was way milder, and the postnasal drip was milder,

Overall, it was milder. I still don't know if this reinfection was actually due to the supposed virus, or whether it was due to shedding from vaccine spike proteins. I am leaning toward the latter though, because it felt different and I should be theoretically immune to the virus.

There is something uniquely bad about the vaccine I think--with the virus, your immune system can target hundreds of different epitopes. There are many ways to get spike protein (which is attached to the virus) out.
But with the vaccine, it's just pure spike. There is nothing else to latch onto, and so it must necessarily be harder to get the spike protein out.

I would also like to see what %age of vaxees actually produce antibodies to the spike protein. Because I came down with the actual virus, was tested dozens of times for antibodies, and came up negative every time. I've talked to plenty with the same experience. For some reason, many bodies do not like making antibodies to the spike. Is this because it's inherently more difficult? Or because there's something nefarious about anti-spike antibodies? Or just sheer luck?

I definitely don't condone getting the vaccine, (I still haven't) but I reject the idea that it is far, far worse than covid itself (I would say it's...maybe 25% worse)

 

[MyUsernameHere]

The problem is... you get the virus once, and that's it for most people. Reinfection rates are extremely low.

On the other hand, people will be getting a booster shot every 3 months the way things are going.

 

[Perry Staltic]

I came down with the actual virus, was tested dozens of times for antibodies, and came up negative every time. I've talked to plenty with the same experience. For some reason, many bodies do not like making antibodies to the spike. Is this because it's inherently more difficult? Or because there's something nefarious about anti-spike antibodies? Or just sheer luck?

Virus mythology really screws up peoples' minds.

 

[lvysaur]

The problem is... you get the virus once, and that's it for most people. Reinfection rates are extremely low.

I was definitely reinfected with something, only question being whether it was actual virus or vaccine-shedded-spike-protein

Virus mythology really screws up peoples' minds.

Do you understand the concept of reasoning under a certain paradigm? Even if you're not 100% convinced of that paradigm? This is what my posts are.

Also if the virus isn't causing it, what is?
And why are the symptoms between "viral" sufferers and vaccine sufferers so similar to one another?

 

[Perry Staltic]

And why are the symptoms between "viral" sufferers and vaccine sufferers so similar to one another?

They're not. What do you see as being so similar?

 

[Perry Staltic]

Do you understand the concept of reasoning under a certain paradigm? Even if you're not 100% convinced of that paradigm? This is what my posts are.

Yeah I understand it very well. When you operate under a false paradigm everything you do - E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G. - will be wrong.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Also if the virus isn't causing it, what is?

Causing what? Mild covid? Severe covid? Long covid? Perhaps lumping these all together as having one etiology is the problem.

 

[lvysaur]

Perhaps lumping these all together as having one etiology is the problem.

obviously they are all connected, as they all mysteriously started happening in 2020.

I've read the accounts of people on the vaccine long haulers subreddit. the symptoms are the same as those of "normal" long haulers. Tachycardia/POTS, extreme brain fog/fatigue, amenorrhea, and many others. Can you name a common symptom of either that ISN'T seen in the other?

 

[Perry Staltic]

obviously they are all connected, as they all mysteriously started happening in 2020.

I've read the accounts of people on the vaccine long haulers subreddit. the symptoms are the same as those of "normal" long haulers. Tachycardia/POTS, extreme brain fog/fatigue, amenorrhea, and many others. Can you name a common symptom of either that ISN'T seen in the other?

Blood clots, peri/myocarditis, heart attacks, paralysis, Bell's palsy, sudden death, shingles, epileptic fits, bizarre skin disorders, among others that aren't on the tip of my tongue

 

[Mauritio]

The spike protein is what causes the damage IMO.

I think the vaccine is not as harmful as people say. I think that most of its harm comes from the spike protein.
Contracting the virus naturally will also give you the spike protein, and causes many problems.
The symptoms that I've seen on the longhauler and vaccinelonghauler subreddits seem to be mostly the same

The vaccine does have additional concerns, like adjuvants, the amount of spike protein produced (is it too much at one time?), etc. But also, the flipside (perhaps the amount of spike protein produced from a vaccine is actually LESS than the supposed virus?) I don't know.

There is a huge cohort of vaxees who go on to become "vaccine long haulers", just as "covid long haulers" have existed since March 2020. I was a covid long hauler since March, and I became fully better around February 2021. I won't say "fully cured" because I don't think it's possible to become 100% cured of something like this.

Basically, if someone contracts covid OR is given a vaccine:
- most people feel nothing
- minority (~20%) become "long haulers"
- even smaller minority (1%) die
vaccine deaths are hidden but I feel it's safe to assume that the death toll is not much higher than that of actual covid. The trajectories of both the vaccine and the supposed virus are so similar that it intuitively feels as if they are almost the same thing.

If they are basically the same thing, it means in theory, for many people, most of their vaccine side effects should subside in roughly 1 year from the vaccination date.

However, continued exposure to the spike protein will worsen your condition. I got "reinfected" in October 2021, and I still have some lingering symptoms. In some ways, it was milder than my first infection, and in other ways it was more severe.
- The rash on my fingers was more severe, and also the "kidney" (perhaps intestinal) pain
- The tachycardia was milder (160 bpm instead of 300+), the fatigue was way milder, and the postnasal drip was milder,

Overall, it was milder. I still don't know if this reinfection was actually due to the supposed virus, or whether it was due to shedding from vaccine spike proteins. I am leaning toward the latter though, because it felt different and I should be theoretically immune to the virus.

There is something uniquely bad about the vaccine I think--with the virus, your immune system can target hundreds of different epitopes. There are many ways to get spike protein (which is attached to the virus) out.
But with the vaccine, it's just pure spike. There is nothing else to latch onto, and so it must necessarily be harder to get the spike protein out.

I would also like to see what %age of vaxees actually produce antibodies to the spike protein. Because I came down with the actual virus, was tested dozens of times for antibodies, and came up negative every time. I've talked to plenty with the same experience. For some reason, many bodies do not like making antibodies to the spike. Is this because it's inherently more difficult? Or because there's something nefarious about anti-spike antibodies? Or just sheer luck?

I definitely don't condone getting the vaccine, (I still haven't) but I reject the idea that it is far, far worse than covid itself (I would say it's...maybe 25% worse)

I think you have some valid points. I'd like to have more data on how much spike protein is actually produced in vaxxed or infected people and by comparing this to the people with side effects we could draw some useful conclusions.

The vaccines have additional damages especially the mRNA ones,which are a genetic experiment rather than a vaccine.
Or the aluminum adjuvant that's totally unnecessary. If you remove those things it's less dangerous and you end up with something like the novavax vaccine. Although this is only true if they're really only using the ingredients that they say they're using , which we dont know .

At least With the virus you know what you're getting . Plus I've read that the body is better able to make antibodies if it's exposed to the whole virus and not just the spike protein ,but I dont know if that's true. Your case would speak against it.
I'd still say avoid the vaccine as long as possible.

Is there anywhere we can read about your case ? I'd like to see what you did , what supplements you took before/during /after etc.

 

[lvysaur]

Blood clots, peri/myocarditis, heart attacks, paralysis, Bell's palsy, sudden death, shingles, epileptic fits, bizarre skin disorders, among others that aren't on the tip of my tongue

All of those minus the Bell's palsy and maybe paralysis are symptoms I've seen of unvaxxed long COVID cases.
Blood clots and myocarditis are ridiculously common among long-covid cases.
I personally have the "bizarre" skin disorders, on my left index and middle finger. It got worse after my "reinfection" (quotes because idk if it was virus or shedded vax protein)

Like I said, there are probably a few things that are truly unique to the so-called vaccine, the Bell's palsy is definitely one of them, the paralysis might be one of them. The others...no. They're symptoms of exposure to the spike protein (or whatever other agent it is which you believe is causing the pandemic), which would have occurred regardless of vaccination.

The vaccines have additional damages especially the mRNA ones,which are a genetic experiment rather than a vaccine.

Yes, I agree. I only mean to say that most of these comparisons of "vax caused x and y" are useless, unless they also compare the amount of "x and y" in covid-recovered patients. Or if they have a case study of someone who tested covid-positive, was asymptomatic, got vaccinated much later on and only then got sick--this would prove causation from the vax itself, rather than just the spike.

the mRNA danger is twofold: 1) is that it's untested gene technology, 2) is that even if it works as purported, it only focuses on spike protein

Plus I've read that the body is better able to make antibodies if it's exposed to the whole virus and not just the spike protein ,but I dont know if that's true. Your case would speak against it.

My case would not speak against that at all, because I've never been vaccinated. Even if I did get vaxed now just to see what would happen, the fact that I've had covid already would confound any conclusions that I could draw.

They only test for anti-spike-antibodies. They don't test for anything else. For all I know I have other antibodies that are not tested for, or other T-cells that are also not tested for, or still other immune mechanisms which aren't even understood.

I'd like to have more data on how much spike protein is actually produced in vaxxed or infected people and by comparing this to the people with side effects we could draw some useful conclusions.

The problem is this would need biopsy style testing to truly understand what's going on. The spike protein attaches to the tissues.

On side note, this reminds me of some MSM stupidity I read the other day:
View: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/11/10/1054224204/how-sars-cov-2-in-american-deer-could-alter-the-course-of-the-global-pandemic


In this article, they talk about how deer tested covid-positive at a much higher rate than humans did. (40%+, versus 1%).
What they never point out, (although they mention it unwittingly), is that these deer were tested via lymph node samples. Humans are exclusively tested with nasal swabs--ZERO humans had their lymph nodes biopsied for covid.
I see this kind of idiocy everywhere, in all positions and narratives, where a person compares X thing to Y thing without even mentioning or even thinking about whether the means by which those results happened are even comparable.

But anyway, a takeaway from this unintentionally helpful MSM article is that (assuming the DNA tests are accurate) the "true" covid presence is 40x what the PCR tests say at any given time. Additionally, the covid virus (if you believe in it) can lie dormant inside the organs. One easy way to demystify this would be to test all biopsies for COVID along with the breast cancer or lymphoma or whatever else they were testing for in the first place. If you start seeing totally random cases pop up covid-positive, you know this stuff is internal

 

[LeeLemonoil]

It’s even more interesting than that.

Thursday the big Lancet publication came out, comparing different „basic immunization“-combos with 7 different booster vaccines.

Basic being either 2x Pfizer, 2xModerna, 2xAZ, 1x J&J - or combos thereof.

Boosters additionally included Valneva, Curevac and Novavax (from trials)

Interestingly, a combo of vector based first round of shots combined with one mRNA-Booster got much higher / better levels of T-cells than mRNA only 3 times.

There is some profoundly different immune mechanism imvolved, humoral and cellular, at how the organism reacts to either vector or nucleosid-tech.

So, all those people focusing on abtibody-titers preffering mRNA did themselves a disservice.

I also believe the vectors are less harmful than mRNA.
The organism is „used“ to viruses entering cells and even the nucleus (although attenuated vectors with tinkered with plasmid DNA is still not entirely „natural“ obviously)
Hence the better immune response or more varied response.

The organism is not evolved to producing antigens from rna within the Membrane. It can cope as we see, but as Ivy wrote - is it good to have this one-structure-only thing going about. The strong but also quickly fading antibody response indicates to me a fooled, surprised organism that needs to react quickly and heavily - or is even out of „control“, dumbfounded and thus quickly catabolizes the many antibodies.

Likely a heavy burden.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

The unconsidered dangers of mRNA-vaxxe:

The modified, synthetic nucleosides. Those are designed to avoid the TL-Receptors by adding methyl groups.
If such a nucleosides can avoid that old mechanism - who guarantees it behaves „natural“ in the subsequent cell-processes?

Normally, used mRNA is catabolized in so called Pi-bodies.
But sometimes mRNA or single nucleosides get recycled.
What if the synthetic nucleoside gets recycled many times and gets incorporated into bodies own mRNA-orders. Thus altering protein synthesis in the cell longterm?

I see a risk for aberrations here.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Also, the nano-Lipides:

Do they transport the mRNA into organs and tissue where the Virus would never enter naturally?

It had been found in liver, kidney, lungs, gonades, brain.

 

[Perry Staltic]

All of those minus the Bell's palsy and maybe paralysis are symptoms I've seen of unvaxxed long COVID cases.
Blood clots and myocarditis are ridiculously common among long-covid cases.

Then something else is causing those things because those things are not sequela of covid.

 

[Perry Staltic]

They're symptoms of exposure to the spike protein (or whatever other agent it is which you believe is causing the pandemic), which would have occurred regardless of vaccination.

Those things were not observed in hospitalized cases of covid, so if they are appearing in "long covid" the cause is something else.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

@Mauritio

I also hope or hoped for Novavax as more acceptable future vax-options.

But they too attach the viral proteins to some nano-core. I’ve not yet fully understood what they do, but it might not be so relatively benign as a classic dead-whole virion.

Good thing is they use some novel plant-based adjuvant. Still toxic but a toxicity to which we are evolved. Unlike heavy metal adjuvants.

 

[lvysaur]

The strong but also quickly fading antibody response indicates to me a fooled, surprised organism that needs to react quickly and heavily - or is even out of „control“, dumbfounded and thus quickly catabolizes the many antibodies.

I have read similar things about long-COVID. Namely that a certain portion of longhaulers have "produced so many types of antibodies at once", out of sheer shock, that many of these antibodies are causing autoimmunity.

It seems intuitive to me that this "out of control" reaction would be a consequence of the spike protein. Although there may be additional consequences from the mRNA technology itself as well.

I think the best theoretical vaccine would be one which focused exclusively on the viral shell, but nixed the spike protein altogether. Thoughts?

And yes, when I first read about the complicated cold-storage for the mRNA vaccine, and the need to design a "lipid envelope" just so the DNA doesn't get eviscerated before it gets to the cell, my first thought was that they're clearly tinkering with something that's not supposed to be tinkered with--if you need to fight that much of an uphill battle there might be a good reason that the body doesn't want it there.

Also, the nano-Lipides:

Do they transport the mRNA into organs and tissue where the Virus would never enter naturally?

It had been found in liver, kidney, lungs, gonades, brain.

these are all places where ACE2 is expressed, and where non-vaxxed viral sufferers have problems. I've personally had inflammation in the testes, kidney, intestine, heart, general muscles, brain, and behind the eyes. Curiously I never developed pneumonia.

The modified, synthetic nucleosides. Those are designed to avoid the TL-Receptors by adding methyl groups.

Speaking of Toll-like receptors, my first infection with covid back in March 2020 gave me severe endotoxemic symptoms.
I had bouts of "mini-sepsis" that lasted for days, with extreme fatigue, low fever (99.5F), very yellow and drooping eyes, female-shaped torso (yes, my shoulder:hip ratio literally narrowed), and the smoking gun being reduced urine output. I usually produce 4 cups of urine, during these bouts I was producing less than 1/2 cup (despite UPPING my water intake).

The reason I call it "mini sepsis" is because I had been reading extensively about covid and general illness at this time, and I spotted that reduced urine was a symptom of sepsis--I looked for solutions, saw vitamin C, and it helped HUGELY. It is definitely possible that I may have died if I didn't take the C. @Mauritio Zinc, B6 and quercetin didn't seem to do much.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Thanks @Ivysaur

Ethyl-Pyruvate is under investigation for alleviating both covid and sepsis btw

 

[Perry Staltic]

It got worse after my "reinfection" (quotes because idk if it was virus or shedded vax protein)

It seems quite possible that shedding caused your symptoms. pericarditis was never a sequela of covid, nor shingles, but it does appear that those can be caused by heavy exposure to shedding.

On day 7 one of the non-vaccinated girls presented with a full-blown shingles outbreak, and the other with chest pains and acute leg pain, warranting a visit to the emergency department. She was later diagnosed with pericarditis and a blood clot in her leg.

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