@stevrd awesome post, thanks a lot for this!
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@stevrd awesome post, thanks a lot for this!
Thank you!Great post @stevrd.
If overweight people need more liquids and not more, how do you reconcile that fact with drinking too much water makes losing weight difficult to impossible when overweight?
Jack Kruse is only half-right when it comes to solid food helping people lose weight. Overweight people do not need less water, they need more water. The bigger the person, the more fluids are needed to remain adequately hydrated. Bigger people often lose more water through exhalation or perspiration, regardless of thyroid status. Solid food helps with weight loss because of two reasons, (1) it produces a higher specific dynamic action than liquids, making it easier to lose weight on the same amount of calories, or more calories (2) it is more satiating than liquid calories, inhibits ghrelin, essentially stops hunger faster than liquids, thus solid food cause us to eat less calories by default. Most of the time forcing fluids isn't a good idea, but there are some times where we need to force fluids or force feed ourselves. Many of us have lost our intrinsic impulses to drink or eat when appropriate or regulate how much is needed. If this weren't the case, then we wouldn't need calorie trackers to help underweight people eat enough. This is especially apparent in elderly people, who often lose the ability to sense thirst, making dehydration much more common.
Also what about the fact that unhealthy/overweight people need even more minerals than a healthy person, so if you drink diluated water it could make this issue worse? Sure you can salt liquids, but you still have to consider other minerals such as magnesium, calcium. Especially magnesium, which hypothyroid people are usually low in.
Any comment on the body being able to "make" water from body fat? I don't say I believe it (it sounds ridiculous) but I admit I don't understand the supposed mechanism behind it, so I can't fairly judge something unless I do.
Any idea why I still continue to have edema even though my pulse and temps are mostly pretty good finally? Doesn't a good pulse and temp indicate a healthy metabolism?
Sorry for all the questions just trying to learn.
After looking at it, ok yeah I think I misinterpreted. I thought you mean all liquids (including empty calories like water). My bad. I see now you clearly do state "liquid calories".
Still, doesn't even water clog up the digestive track? I think the ayvurdic folk say that, if I'm not mistaken. Anything that can clog up the digestive track and isn't easily digested could easily make you gain weight on less calories. Calories in calories out is a very simplistic system that rarely works in reality. If liquid calories cause this effect, I see no reason why any liquid (including water) would not. Just my 2c though. I certainly could be wrong. edit - quick search suggests that water is OK at meals as long as it is warm or hot. cold liquid like OJ or milk straight from fridge would definitely clog digestion according to them. that means water also must be warm or hot. so milk would be fine if it was warmed up first.
Most foods contain a considerable amount of water, usually more than 70% of their weight, and some water is produced in cells by metabolism. The function of water in the organism has been mystified and neglected because of some deeply rooted cultural images of the nature of organisms and their cellular make-up.
Found this quote from RP:
Unfortunately, he does not go into detail as to how "water is produced in cells by metabolism".
Water: swelling, tension, pain, fatigue, aging
The first thought is that if you have lots of body fat, that supposedly your body can "Make" water using your body fat (I'm still trying to wrap my head around how this works, so don't ask me how it works haha) and so minimizing forced water intake may make you lose body fat easier (and you actually see this reflected on these forums as well - a lot of people fail on the liquid diet, and only lose weight and feel better once they ditch most the liquids).
Just looked up the chemical composition of body fat. It is carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen. Because water is hydrogen plus oxygen, theoretically, yes you can make water from body fat.
Dry fasting can turn fat into water.I have honestly not read about body fat being turned into water. If you have a source for this I'd love to read it. A cursory search on google came up with nothing for me. But I can say for certain that if this is in fact true, it would not occur at any significant degree in the context of fat loss. We lose fat through beta oxidation, utilizing fat for energy. Yes, the hormonal milieu plays a role in fat distribution and nutrient partitioning, but at the end of the day we have to create a caloric deficit to cannibalize and lose a significant amount of fat through beta oxidation. Preferably this would be a slow process, over the course of months so as to avoid an increase in the stress hormones, which would cause more muscle tissue loss than desired.
You could have edema for a number of reasons. Because edema tends to increase blood pressure, it could cause a false-positive elevation in pulse. Lowering blood pressure tends to lower pulse, but not always. Where is the location of your edema? Ankles, arms, face? Face fat is often confused for edema. It's easier to believe that we're holding excess water than fat tissue.
I work in medicine, where edema is often caused by diabetes, vascular disease, along with other co-morbidities. Outside of the main medical causes of edema, hormones play a large role. Estrogen and cortisol are one of the main culprits in edema for otherwise healthy individuals with no co-morbidities. Reducing stress is one of the main things we can do to decrease edema. Because we live in a busy and stressful world, meditation, sunbathing, and sleeping without an alarm clock (my three favorite ways to decrease stress) are not possible all the time. Because of this, supplementing with some thyroid and pregnenolone can often reduce the formation of cortisol and estrogen to a larger degree. I think of thyroid and pregnenolone as "adaptogenic" in this way.
Dry fasting can turn fat into water.
@Antonello
@stevrd
Can't be too sure, but I think what Ant was trying to say is that dry fasting can take the Hydrogen in fat to make water. Ant might want to clarify on this, but it sounds like he was just generalizing when he said "dry fasting can turn fat into water" because that doesn't sound right.
I had never heard of dry fasting, so I found a neat video that explain it:
Video is mainly about how to break a dry fast, but he gives a very brief explanation of what a dry fast is before going into how to break one.
@stevrd
"Anything that makes you cold decreases metabolism. Too much fluids is part of it..."
Question: Cronometer's suggestion for daily intake of water is 3700 g (125 oz) or just about 1 US gallon of water per day. Do you find this reasonable?
I thought I was getting a lot of liquid and when I checked I was only getting 50% of the RDI and I thought: Well, maybe I have a problem! But, I felt like I was getting enough liquids. I guess the only way to find out, is test it and see if I feel better or worse, but I would like to get your opinion on 1 gallon of liquid per day. That seems like a huge amount of liquid! And for someone who is recovering from hypo-t wouldn't that just be disastrous? I won't know unless I try, but I'm just curious was Cronometer has such a huge amount for the RDI of water content.
For the record, I'm currently getting roughly 2,200 g of water per day, which is 74 oz from the following: 18 oz coffe, 44 oz OJ, plus another 12 oz from food. Sometimes I also get a cup or two of milk which adds 8 oz or 16 oz, but it's inconsistent because I'm afraid I'm allergic to casein so it's not consistent.
Thanks for sharing your input