Trying To Recover The Emotion Of Wonder

[Ben7]

Hi. I'm a 32 year old male interested in health and bodybuilding. I have most of my life been dreamy in character. For several years as an early adult I had these beautiful feelings of wonder at the universe, stronger than what I had as a child. To give some examples of the broad feeling: when outside there was always a new mystery just out of site past a group of trees; when indoors I would feel cosy as I studied or relaxed; looking afield at the universe in my mind there was a hopeful aspiration and a feeling of deepness and of foreverness.

These have been my happiest feelings and I began losing them 2 years ago. I now feel some what like a boring adult. Although I don't know everything about the world and the universe I feel like I have wrapped my head around it making it boring.

I have experimented with raising and lowering through natural means (food, red light, cold water, music), various hormones. Dopamine, serotonin (probably lower now), testosterone and oxytocin seem to do to me what they do to others. Oxcytocin was the closest to the wonder (with a feeling of deepness) emotion, but I really haven't been able to recover the feelings.

It might be because I eat steak and veggies these days instead of fish and veggies. I could try eating fish but steak is good for my energy and bodybuilding. My diet is not very Peaty but I have no problem with most foods. I decided to ask on this forum because there are some people here with knowledge of how hormones effect mood, behaviour, etc. Is there a hormone linked to the emotion of wonder?

 

[olive]

Psychedelics make non-novel experiences feel novel again.

 

[smith]

This is one of those great questions that most people will only care to answer with "try psychedelics"
Stupid question but, you masturbate? Have you recently tried to learn a lot of things or memorize information?

 

[benaoao]

(Cold water) Fish is much better than steak in a number of ways imo. Liver every other week is all the meat a health conscious bodybuilder needs. Plus low fat dairy for an even better micronutrient profile.

(Can’t say anything about wonder and day dreaming obviously ha)

 

[smith]

(Can’t say anything about wonder and day dreaming obviously ha)

Why not? What's obvious? Have you sworn an oath to not say anything about wonder and day dreaming or something? Lol, that sucks

 

[Vinero]

Maybe you have high levels of inflammation caused by endotoxin. Depression can be seen as an inflammatory problem, since anti-inflammatory drugs like aspirin, vitamin E, progesterone and tetracycline antibiotics can relieve depression.

"...One of the common features of depression and insulin resistance is regarded to be low-grade inflammation [46–51]. Elevated endotoxin levels and increased production of pro-inflammatory cytokines in the periphery was suggested to contribute to the development of both depression and diabetes [46,52,53]. As has been reviewed recently, peripheral endotoxin triggers depressive-like behavior in both humans and rodents through elevation of levels of pro-inflammatory cytokines
Serotonin/endotoxin/PUFA As Primary Causes Of Depression And Diabetes; Can Be Easily Blocked

 

[chrismturner89]

(Cold water) Fish is much better than steak in a number of ways imo. Liver every other week is all the meat a health conscious bodybuilder needs. Plus low fat dairy for an even better micronutrient profile.

(Can’t say anything about wonder and day dreaming obviously ha)

Interesting. Can you say why cold water fish is superior to meat? Not challenging you btw, just genuinely curious. I don't get on well with meat.

 

[Prosper]

Oxytocin is related to relationships and social dynamics. Either become more sociable, or fall in love with the everythingness that exists. Let the surrounding reality be a friendly entity that embraces you. The sensation will be similar to having found God. No matter where you are, you will call it home.

 

[Stilgar]

Either become more sociable, or fall in love with the everythingness that exists. Let the surrounding reality be a friendly entity that embraces you. The sensation will be similar to having found God. No matter where you are, you will call it home.

This.

 

[LUH 3417]

This is one of those great questions that most people will only care to answer with "try psychedelics"
Stupid question but, you masturbate? Have you recently tried to learn a lot of things or memorize information?

I think the reason psychedelics is the most common first answer is because it really does change the way you interface with others and your environment in a way that is kind of unparalleled by any other substance or experience. To me it literally was like falling in love with everythingness. I have doubts this can be conditioned through pure will.

 

[Jem Oz]

First up, what a great question. You're a man after my own heart. Sadly there are lots of things in the adult world that are hostile to that sense of wonder you write about, so I do think it gets harder as you get older. But by no means impossible!

For myself I have found getting distance from institutions and relationships that are hostile to those deep and gorgeous feelings has been essential. But that might not be an issue for you. And paying more and more attention to my dreams, really treasuring them, honouring and loosely analysing them, has helped bolster that wonder-loving part of my daytime self.

I'm not sure exactly what happened, but 2 days ago I slightly upped my morning dose of thyroid, and took 1g of cypro, and lay down shirtless in the bright sun, and had an experience of ecstasy that rippled through my whole body for several minutes. It blew me away and reminded me of my long-gone drug taking days. It ended up colouring my whole day.

Best of luck with your quest my friend!

 

[A. squamosa]

Look into philosophy on the beautiful and the sublime (e.g., Kant, Brady).

I agree that experiencing wonder and beauty requires a certain lack of knowledge, so go to places new to you that you know nothing about (go diving, go to some caves, etc etc), go and look at some art or architecture you don't know much about, read some poetry that you are unfamiliar with, read up about ancient myths; generally, find places and things in nature and the arts that you can interact with sans concepts and rationalisation.

 

[Prosper]

I have doubts this can be conditioned through pure will.

Of course it can. Psychedelics are a mere optional shortcut to insight that you will eventually find regardless, given enough time and effort. It's good to be wary of wisdom you have not earned.

 

[LUH 3417]

Of course it can. Psychedelics are a mere optional shortcut to insight that you will eventually find regardless, given enough time and effort. It's good to be wary of wisdom you have not earned.

I would say that you can’t induce feeling through will, they arise spontaneously

 

[benaoao]

Interesting. Can you say why cold water fish is superior to meat? Not challenging you btw, just genuinely curious. I don't get on well with meat.

I’d go for the higher DHA, the ability to cook a wild animal whole, no heme iron as opposed to red meat, some vitamin D, it all adds up making fish a decent anti inflammatory food IMHO

 

[Prosper]

I would say that you can’t induce feeling through will, they arise spontaneously

Depends on what defines will. I see will as synonymous to intent. Intent will guide you to situations that serve it, regardless of how subconscious the intent itself is. Many seek change, yet deep down want things to remain the same. Thus they mistakenly conclude they are powerless in the face of their own existence. As long as "will" is subconscious, all manifestations of it certainly will seem spontaneous.

 

[LUH 3417]

Depends on what defines will. I see will as synonymous to intent. Intent will guide you to situations that serve it, regardless of how subconscious the intent itself is. Many seek change, yet deep down want things to remain the same. Thus they mistakenly conclude they are powerless in the face of their own existence. As long as "will" is subconscious, all manifestations of it certainly will seem spontaneous.

From what I understand will is a feature of the ego but not very much aware of the unconscious at all. You use your will to hide your intent. At least in psychotherapeutic literature.

 

[Prosper]

From what I understand will is a feature of the ego but not very much aware of the unconscious at all. You use your will to hide your intent. At least in psychotherapeutic literature.

I see. We may be talking about a bit different things.

 

[smith]

I think the reason psychedelics is the most common first answer is because it really does change the way you interface with others and your environment in a way that is kind of unparalleled by any other substance or experience. To me it literally was like falling in love with everythingness. I have doubts this can be conditioned through pure will.

Yea the recommendations are understandable, but eventually, I think most of us would prefer 'producing' novelty and wonder and love-for-life endogenously like babies or young children, rather than relying on an external substance to give them to us conditionally, forever.

 

[LUH 3417]

Yea the recommendations are understandable, but eventually, I think most of us would prefer 'producing' novelty and wonder and love-for-life endogenously like babies or young children, rather than relying on an external substance to give them to us conditionally, forever.

I agree, and acknowledge that psychedelics come with side effects, but until then...a close a second may be taking a trip somewhere you’ve never been.