Vitamin D Supplementation Vs Natural Production

Xemnoraq

Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
269
Age
27
This may sound a bit foolish but bare with me, in an interview Ray actually mentioned that we produce vitamin D in response to stressful things such as radiation from the sun, he mentions a few other situations where stressful things can trigger vitamin D synthesis. So it makes me question the idea of a vitamin D deficiency, does that mean we just have a deficiency of a specific kind of stressor? We produce vitamin D endogenously in response to the sun as a protective factor against UVB, so with that being said if our body can produce it endogenously from stress, why can't it produce either vitamin D or other anti-stress hormones in response to say lack of sunlight?

So if were deficient in vitamin D does that just mean we're deficient in a specific stressor that triggers it (Sunlight) does that sort of dip into the hormesis idea of some stressors being good and toughening up the system? obviously if a person has elevated estrogen poor cholesterol these will all not just interfere with vitamin D synthesis but other protective hormones as well.

So my next question, is given that vitamin D is essentially an actual seco-steroid or hormone i guess you can say that starts with cholesterol, if taking artificial hormones like testosterone for example shuts down our own natural production through negative feedback loop would it not be the same for vitamin D given that its a hormone our body will synthesize on its own? if we do the work for our body are we left in a natural production deficiency if we stop taking it?

Just kind of had me thinking because i sort of see taking vitamin D almost like taking steroids haha, you're basically supplementing a hormone/steroid, im big on supplementing D, it has amazing effects for me, however i was just wondering has anyone thought about this more deeply and maybe has something interesting to add?

If vitamin D is a steroid produced in response to a stressor such as UVB sunlight, and sunlight is not the only thing that can trigger its synthesis, then couldn't a deficiency of vitamin D be filled in for by lets say the stress of winter or anything in life the body compensating by producing more progesterone or DHEA etc.

Im a huge fan of vitamin D for its anabolic effects, after 2 years of not working out cause of bull**** covid first day back in the gym my lifts are still decent my muscle mass still good despite being sedentary, vitamin D created great muscle mass for me, and it would knock me out and give me great sleeps if i take it before bed, its my go to supplement for everything, so im not against it at all, im kind of just looking and thinking a little deeper into the rationality for supplementing it if we can just push our body to make the steroids its needs with the right stimulation, lets have a discussion
 

xeliex

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
960
You seem to have a fair understanding of the complexity of the topic at hand. Danny has a good write up here.


It is worthwhile to note that certain stressors (and what I believe Ray means) activate the conversion of 25-hydroxyvitamin D to 1,25-hydroxyvitamin D forms and not pre-vitamin or 25-hydroxyvitamin D.

The first level conversion happens from uv exposure under the skin from cholesterol. We can call it pre-vitamin D.
The second level is in the liver where the pre-vitamin D is converted to 25-hydroxyvitamin D.
The 3rd level occurs in various organs but mostly the kidneys where 25-hydroxy is converted to 1,25 hydroxyvitamin D.

In dialysis patients that I work with, we have to give them 1,25 hydroxyvitamin D. Since their kidneys have failed, they run hypocalcemic and cholecalciferol and 25-hydroxy analogues alone rarely correct their calcium or their high PTH.

The supplemental vitamin D is often cholecalciferol which is not the same as giving 1,25 D - so it is not really a hormone per se.

Ray acknowledges that given certain circumstances, vitamin D is not needed for biological systems' survival. Like the fish that have abundant minerals and calcium in their waters for example.

In the high stress world that we live in with minimal outdoor exposure (at least many of us), the intermediate cholecalciferol seems like a fairly good approach to provide the body with the material that is is missing, (previtamin D from the uv-cholesterol) and allowing it to convert it to 1,25 hydroxy based on its needs.
 
Last edited:

CastorTroy

Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Messages
192
Location
Spain
D does not just exist as a response to protect us against sunlight UVB as stressor. It's role in the body its quite complex, it modulates immune system between lots of things. To say its there for UVB protection is I think a big misunderstanding of what vitamin D metabolism really is. Is like say that insulin is there to protect us from the food and its rising sugar effects in blood. Sunlight is like food. Needed for the body to properly works.

If there's a mechanism that protects us from UVB overdose, that is the melanin burning, the tanning effect through UVA radiation.
 

Dr. B

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
4,346
D does not just exist as a response to protect us against sunlight UVB as stressor. It's role in the body its quite complex, it modulates immune system between lots of things. To say its there for UVB protection is I think a big misunderstanding of what vitamin D metabolism really is. Is like say that insulin is there to protect us from the food and its rising sugar effects in blood. Sunlight is like food. Needed for the body to properly works.

If there's a mechanism that protects us from UVB overdose, that is the melanin burning, the tanning effect through UVA radiation.
But how safe is vitamin d3 if you’re not supplementing any vitamin A or k2 or E...
 

artist

Member
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
420
These days taking vitamin D3 seems to push on some other deficiency I have and make me sicker. However, even before this was the case I felt a bit uneasy about supplementing it. For most people it's probably fine I suppose, but here's what I don't understand: if my ancestors evolved in northern Europe, an environment where (as people love to repeatedly point out) it is IMPOSSIBLE to get enough vitamin D, why do I "need" that much vitamin D? How can it be that everyone in my family tree had a horrific deficiency in a major nutrient, but now in 2022 I have access to global supply chains of lab made vitamin D I can finally correct the problem? We're the first generation in the history of Europe to not be vitamin D deficient? Something is missing here imo.

I really would love to take vitamin D for its effect of reducing gut permeability, but I've definitely lost my enthusiasm for supplements in dosages not attainable through diet.
 

Dr. B

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
4,346
These days taking vitamin D3 seems to push on some other deficiency I have and make me sicker. However, even before this was the case I felt a bit uneasy about supplementing it. For most people it's probably fine I suppose, but here's what I don't understand: if my ancestors evolved in northern Europe, an environment where (as people love to repeatedly point out) it is IMPOSSIBLE to get enough vitamin D, why do I "need" that much vitamin D? How can it be that everyone in my family tree had a horrific deficiency in a major nutrient, but now in 2022 I have access to global supply chains of lab made vitamin D I can finally correct the problem? We're the first generation in the history of Europe to not be vitamin D deficient? Something is missing here imo.

I really would love to take vitamin D for its effect of reducing gut permeability, but I've definitely lost my enthusiasm for supplements in dosages not attainable through diet.
i dont think its necessary or beneficial at all for lighter skinned people nor is sunlight needed especially if you follow that diet. I think their diet was heavy on dairy and red meat right? cod liver oil wasnt a necessity? I got crazy issues from D3 and would likely never use it again

regarding D3s effect of reducing gut permeability, is that because of calcium? so milk would have similar effects?


i think that website is exactly correct, low vitamin D levels in obese, overweight or sick people seem to be a result of the disease not the cause


Vitamin D helps the body make, release, and use serotonin, including in the brain. However, the benefits of supplementation are uncertain [15, 16].

Vitamin D activates an enzyme that converts tryptophan into serotonin. If vitamin D levels are low, our brains make less serotonin. Thus, increasing vitamin D intake may increase serotonin levels, thereby potentially supporting mental health

While vitamin D helps neurons make serotonin, the omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid), DHA (docosahexaenoic acid), and ALA (alpha-linolenic acid) may help neurons release serotonin, as well as increase its overall activity (such as by increasing the sensitivity of serotonin receptors)
 

artist

Member
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
420
@Dr. B good points. Definitely on the same page here…I’ve found some references indicating that calcium may in fact help reduce gut permeability, I’ll try to post them later. I am supplementing calcium/magnesium (in moderation, since I can’t tolerate casein sadly) these days so that would be good news.
 

peter88

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2021
Messages
614
Vitamin d supplementation has been the only way I’ve been able to raise my levels.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,516
These days taking vitamin D3 seems to push on some other deficiency I have and make me sicker. However, even before this was the case I felt a bit uneasy about supplementing it. For most people it's probably fine I suppose, but here's what I don't understand: if my ancestors evolved in northern Europe, an environment where (as people love to repeatedly point out) it is IMPOSSIBLE to get enough vitamin D, why do I "need" that much vitamin D? How can it be that everyone in my family tree had a horrific deficiency in a major nutrient, but now in 2022 I have access to global supply chains of lab made vitamin D I can finally correct the problem? We're the first generation in the history of Europe to not be vitamin D deficient? Something is missing here imo.

I really would love to take vitamin D for its effect of reducing gut permeability, but I've definitely lost my enthusiasm for supplements in dosages not attainable through diet.
This is an interesting point.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,516
In the spring and summer, and sometimes into the fall, I will not supplement with D3 due to having a lot of exposure to the sun during those seasons.
I don’t supplement it either. I am sure with all my hours of gardening over the Spring, Summer and Fall I stored a bunch for the winter. Egg yolks have about 10% each too, and I eat about two a day. Interestingly if you put mushrooms outside in the sun, before cooking them, it increases their vitamin D content.
 

Gawdawg

Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2023
Messages
91
Location
South Carolina
I don’t supplement it either. I am sure with all my hours of gardening over the Spring, Summer and Fall I stored a bunch for the winter. Egg yolks have about 10% each too, and I eat about two a day. Interestingly if you put mushrooms outside in the sun, before cooking them, it increases their vitamin D content.
That is interesting about the mushrooms.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,516
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,516
“During this time, a chemical in your 'shrooms called ergosterol will react with UV rays to generate and soak in even more vitamin D. Try to leave your fungi out in the sun for an hour to maximize nutritional value, but as the study demonstrated, even a quarter hour of exposure can make a huge difference.Oct 1, 2023”

 

Gawdawg

Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2023
Messages
91
Location
South Carolina
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,516
“In these nursing home veterans, vitamin D supplement users were the most frail but with high 25 (OH) D. This can potentially be a cause of U-shaped associations between vitamin D levels and negative health outcomes.”

“One of the recent controversies in vitamin D research is a “U-shaped association”, [79] in which both high and low levels of vitamin D are associated with elevated disease risks [7]. Regarding all-cause mortality, most observational population-based studies have shown that low vitamin D predicted premature death, which is supported by recent meta-analyses [1013]. However, there were a considerable number of studies that showed U-shaped or reverse J-shaped associations between vitamin D and mortality [1420].”

 
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom