What Are The Most Gelatinous Cuts Of Beef And Lamb?

[barbwirehouse]

I tried looking this up and Google and couldn't find anything solid, anybody know?

 

[XPlus]

In my experience, I get the most gelatin out of feet, when boiled.

As for meaty parts, shanks and tails are the ones I find most gelatinous, followed by legs.

 

[jyb]

An oxtail stew (4 hour or more is usual) gives you fat, meat and gelatin, though probably not as much gelatin as a pure bone dish. As a test you could let the liquid cool, it should stabilise as a gel.

 

[fyo]

You can pretty much tell by the texture. Feet, skin, ears, tail, snout, tripe/stomach, gizzards I think, lungs I think, sometimes you can buy a big tendon chunk. I think shank has the most of the 'muscle' cuts but I don't think its enough on its own, by my calculation. I've started eating tripe and enjoy it a lot.

 

[barbwirehouse]

An oxtail stew (4 hour or more is usual) gives you fat, meat and gelatin, though probably not as much gelatin as a pure bone dish.

I thought ray was against cooking things for long periods of time?

 

[jyb]

An oxtail stew (4 hour or more is usual) gives you fat, meat and gelatin, though probably not as much gelatin as a pure bone dish.

I thought ray was against cooking things for long periods of time?

A stew is boiled in water (and barely boiling). Not the same as frying a steak in oil until its burning.

 

[honeybee]

What about pressure cooking method? Would this be an ok way to obtain the broth?

 

[barbwirehouse]

An oxtail stew (4 hour or more is usual) gives you fat, meat and gelatin, though probably not as much gelatin as a pure bone dish.

I thought ray was against cooking things for long periods of time?

A stew is boiled in water (and barely boiling). Not the same as frying a steak in oil until its burning.

Oh ok, thanks.

On this topic, do you know what methods of cooking Ray approves of and what is he against?

Only stuff I could find is that he doesn't like iron or aluminum cookwear.

 

[tara]

An oxtail stew (4 hour or more is usual) gives you fat, meat and gelatin, though probably not as much gelatin as a pure bone dish.

I thought ray was against cooking things for long periods of time?

A stew is boiled in water (and barely boiling). Not the same as frying a steak in oil until its burning.

Oh ok, thanks.

On this topic, do you know what methods of cooking Ray approves of and what is he against?

Only stuff I could find is that he doesn't like iron or aluminum cookwear.

I thought he had recommended against boiling broths for too long, because it damages some proteins and may leach too much lead from bones into broth? Can't remembre where I read this, though.
Stiffness of cold broth should indicate gelatin content. When I asked butcher about most gelatinous cuts, he sold me two knee joints and said they'd make a broth I could walk on. Nearly true. But high PUFA.

 

[jyb]

On this topic, do you know what methods of cooking Ray approves of and what is he against?

Only stuff I could find is that he doesn't like iron or aluminum cookwear.

His article on iron mentions some forms of steel (not all) and glass. Glass cookware is a bit harder to find, but not necessarily more expensive.

 

[jyb]

I thought he had recommended against boiling broths for too long, because it damages some proteins and may leach too much lead from bones into broth? Can't remembre where I read this, though.
Stiffness of cold broth should indicate gelatin content. When I asked butcher about most gelatinous cuts, he sold me two knee joints and said they'd make a broth I could walk on. Nearly true. But high PUFA.

Well, you have to boil for a few hours to get gelatin even if you don't do a thorough stew.

Knee joints? Good to know. Is it really higher pufa than other parts of the beef?

 

[tara]

Well, you have to boil for a few hours to get gelatin even if you don't do a thorough stew.

Knee joints? Good to know. Is it really higher pufa than other parts of the beef?

3 hours usually softens the gelatin up enough to be mostly chewable, even if it doesn't all completely dissolve.

My experience has been that the knee and tail brews gave fat that was very soft, even liquid, after cooling. Definitely more liquid than chicken fat. WHen I boiled bones from torso, fat was very solid. I presume liquid fat implies higher PUFA. My hunch is that extremities exposed to more cold produced more PUFA than in warmer torso. Peat has mentioned studies where fat nearer skin on ruminants (sheep?) had more PUFA. I guess it would depend on climate - If the stock live in a warm climate it may not be such an issue.

 

[jyb]

My experience has been that the knee and tail brews gave fat that was very soft, even liquid, after cooling. Definitely more liquid than chicken fat. WHen I boiled bones from torso, fat was very solid. I presume liquid fat implies higher PUFA. My hunch is that extremities exposed to more cold produced more PUFA than in warmer torso. Peat has mentioned studies where fat nearer skin on ruminants (sheep?) had more PUFA. I guess it would depend on climate - If the stock live in a warm climate it may not be such an issue.

In my fridge it (from oxtails) solidifies like butter, but it's difficult to say because it's mixed with so many things like gelatin and water. But you really can't tell how much pufa by that method. Take bacon for example, before you cook it: looks pretty solid... And vice versa, in hot summer, my coconut oil looks more watery than my olive oil.

 

[tara]

My experience has been that the knee and tail brews gave fat that was very soft, even liquid, after cooling. Definitely more liquid than chicken fat. WHen I boiled bones from torso, fat was very solid. I presume liquid fat implies higher PUFA. My hunch is that extremities exposed to more cold produced more PUFA than in warmer torso. Peat has mentioned studies where fat nearer skin on ruminants (sheep?) had more PUFA. I guess it would depend on climate - If the stock live in a warm climate it may not be such an issue.

In my fridge it (from oxtails) solidifies like butter, but it's difficult to say because it's mixed with so many things like gelatin and water. But you really can't tell how much pufa by that method. Take bacon for example, before you cook it: looks pretty solid... And vice versa, in hot summer, my coconut oil looks more watery than my olive oil.

Maybe your oxen live in a warmer climate, and it's no issue for you. That's good.
PUFA is consistent with what I've read from Peat, but I haven't read him describing this directly. Cattle need to bend their knees and wave their tails in freezing weather too, and I'm guessing they produce/retain more PUFA in these areas to make this possible.
What other explanation can you think of for liquid cold beef fat? Would the alternative be a higher ratio of short and medium chain triglycerides? Any reason to think this could be happening?

If you are only eating the stock itself, it doesn't matter (though it's harder to get all the liquid fat off the top than a really solid lump). But if you want to eat the meat and chew the gristle, you can't help getting quite a bit of the fat too, and that seems like a problem for me.

 

[tara]

What other explanation can you think of for liquid cold beef fat? Would the alternative be a higher ratio of short and medium chain triglycerides? Any reason to think this could be happening?

I guess high MUFA could also be at play - not as bad as PUFA, but not ideal in large quantities?

 

[seano]

Why no lamb response? Must be due to the lack of lamb eating in the US. Thankfully we have lots of lamb here in Britain.

Lamb neck!

Normally cut like oxtail and can be substituted for it. Very common in the UK, especially in Indian & Middle-Eastern shops. And incredibly cheap!

Obviously shanks are great too, but at 2-4x the cost.

 

[Derek]

I don't know if you're talking about making broths or just eating cuts of meat that are high in gelatin's main amino acids.

If it's the latter, here are the best ones I know of:

Lamb necks, leg of lamb, lamb shoulder roast, lamb shanks, Beef shoulder roast, Beef arm roast, Ox tail, Pork belly, and Bone-in chicken breast with skin.

 

[tara]

I eat a bit of mutton - necks, soup or curry bones, shoulder chops, occasional shoulder or leg roast.
When I want chicken stock for an occasional change, I buy frames - lots of good gristle, not much fat, and still a little meat on them amongst the gristle.

 

[Ras]

Beef cheek pressure-cooked for a few hours produces the most tender, delicious heap of meat and gelatin I've ever had.

 

[Amazoniac]

This seems like a viable alternative for a good source of collagen:
Beef Tendon: Pho from Khai Hoan

--
A compilation of amino acid analyses of proteins - Springer
In % of amino acids composition
Beef tendon - 13.5% Gly, and 7,9% Pro
Beef (calf) tendon - 13.0% Gly, and 14.1% Pro

For the method used:
A compilation of amino acid analyses of proteins. I

--

Structure of the tendon connective tissue - Kannus - 2008 - Scandinavian Journal of Medicine & Science in Sports - Wiley Online Library
Tendons consist of collagen (mostly type I collagen) and elastin embedded in a proteoglycan-water matrix with collagen accounting for 65-80% and elastin approximately 1-2% of the dry mass of the tendon. These elements are produced by tenoblasts and tenocytes, which are the elongated fibroblasts and fibrocytes that lie between the collagen fibers, and are organized in a complex hierarchical scheme to form the tendon proper. Soluble tropocollagen molecules form cross-links to create insoluble collagen molecules which then aggregate progressively into microfibrils and then into electronmicroscopically clearly visible units, the collagen fibrils. A bunch of collagen fibrils forms a collagen fiber, which is the basic unit of a tendon. A fine sheath of connective tissue called endotenon invests each collagen fiber and binds fibers together. A bunch of collagen fibers forms a primary fiber bundle, and a group of primary fiber bundles forms a secondary fiber bundle. A group of secondary fiber bundles, in turn, forms a tertiary bundle, and the tertiary bundles make up the tendon. The entire tendon is surrounded by a fine connective tissue sheath called epitenon. The three-dimensional ultrastructure of tendon fibers and fiber bundles is complex. Within one collagen fiber, the fibrils are oriented not only longitudinally but also transversely and horizontally. The longitudinal fibers do not run only parallel but also cross each other, forming spirals. Some of the individual fibrils and fibril groups form spiral-type plaits. The basic function of the tendon is to transmit the force created by the muscle to the bone, and, in this way, make joint movement possible. The complex macro- and microstructure of tendons and tendon fibers make this possible. During various phases of movements, the tendons are exposed not only to longitudinal but also to transversal and rotational forces. In addition, they must be prepared to withstand direct contusions and pressures. The above-described three-dimensional internal structure of the fibers forms a buffer medium against forces of various directions, thus preventing damage and disconnection of the fibers.​

So, regardless of analysis, it's expected that it contains a lot of glycine and proline, somewhere in between the concentrations found above and the concentrations in pure gelatin.
If someone has any comments or objections I'm interested, mainly on the objections. Haha.