WHAT do I ask my BUTCHER if I need the most gelatinous cuts of meat?

[Lilac]

Lamb shank. Beef shank.

I like to eat boiled (to softness) beef shank with a sprinkling of salt. Recently I cooked two good-size slices of beef shank really for the meat. I did keep the broth that resulted. I was surprised how gelled it became in the refrigerator.

Oxtails are expensive, and I am having a hard time finding them. Especially when I'm looking for them.

I made fish head stock once and threw the whole thing away. It was revolting. I also decided, after many tries, that chicken feet have an unpleasant taste.

 

[AlaskaJono]

Lamb shank. Beef shank.

I like to eat boiled (to softness) beef shank with a sprinkling of salt. Recently I cooked two good-size slices of beef shank really for the meat. I did keep the broth that resulted. I was surprised how gelled it became in the refrigerator.

Oxtails are expensive, and I am having a hard time finding them. Especially when I'm looking for them.

I made fish head stock once and threw the whole thing away. It was revolting. I also decided, after many tries, that chicken feet have an unpleasant taste.

This is great too. We do mostly lamb shanks (Australia) as easy to get. Slow and low cooked (4-6 hours at about 120-130C, then up to 150C for 1/2 hour//// 250F ish then UP to 290-300F for half hour), with onions, garlic, Butternut pumpkin, potatoes, etc..

Cheeks can be cheap, but one must ask the butcher directly. Not as well know amongst white folks... just sayin'. Recently, I had some slices of homegrown corned and pressed beef tongue. Delicious... not what I remembered. This was organic/grass fed, etc.. ... Better than the moose I had years ago... moose tongue!

Yes, neck bones are another option and usually not so spendy. Usually connective tissue is all there, with bits of meat.

 

[A-Tim]

Necks, feets, cheeks, shanks, tails, skins. For broth, feets are a good cheap option.

Fish skins are very gelatinous too, also their "cheeks", but I think they are not eaten outside Basque Country or near. Octopuses and squids are very gelatin rich.

Interesting. I have never considered octopus or squid a useful source of gelatin. Will consider giving this a try, thanks Ane.

 

[Ane]

Interesting. I have never considered octopus or squid a useful source of gelatin. Will consider giving this a try, thanks Ane.

Both have lot of water, depending how you cook them you could have gelatinous broth too. If you eat rice, you can use that water to cook the rice.

 

[J.R.K]

(the long cook time will convert the starch to dextrose, thus why peat recommends “well cooked” potato’s) is a very delicious and collagen rich meal

I was unaware of the starch converting to dextrose @Sapien, does it remain as dextrose when it cools or is there a conversion back?

 

[Sapien]

I was unaware of the starch converting to dextrose @Sapien, does it remain as dextrose when it cools or is there a conversion back?

I read some misinformed health “gurus” saying to put the potato’s in the fridge overnight to turn the glucose back to resistant starch, so cooling it will in fact do that. Not sure if this happens only in fridge or even a few minutes at room temperature.

 

[J.R.K]

I read some misinformed health “gurus” saying to put the potato’s in the fridge overnight to turn the glucose back to resistant starch, so cooling it will in fact do that. Not sure if this happens only in fridge or even a few minutes at room temperature.

Interesting so always eat potatoes hot. Or reheat, would cause endotoxin besides not tasting ideal either.

 

[Sapien]

Interesting so always eat potatoes hot. Or reheat, would cause endotoxin besides not tasting ideal either.

The people who suggest cooling the potato’s overnight do reheat them, so I don’t think reheating them is safe.

Which is inconvenient as the best part of a pot roast is being able to make a few meals out of it… unfortunate

 

[J.R.K]

The people who suggest cooling the potato’s overnight do reheat them, so I don’t think reheating them is safe.

Which is inconvenient as the best part of a pot roast is being able to make a few meals out of it… unfortunate

I am with you there @Sapien, I will need to rethink one aspect of my diet. Thank you for the information and expanding my knowledge. @Sapien

 

[Sapien]

I am with you there @Sapien, I will need to rethink one aspect of my diet. Thank you for the information and expanding my knowledge. @Sapien

You’re welcome!

Potato’s are a great food. They are a big part of my diet since I don’t have access to good quality fruit juice affordably (all commercial OJ disagrees with me, I suspect they are lying about manually straining the pulp as Peat once suggested..).

Potato’s contain the potassium that white sugar lacks. I add sugar to my diet to make up for the lack of fructose.
(Be aware that 60% of the potassium is in the skin. 60% of the solanine (anti nutrient) is as well, I am not sure if solanine is a big issue or not)

Ray has said they have everything a person needs to survive, except for vitamin A. He also spoke highly of their high fiber content and cited that as a mechanism for why the longest lived people are often tuber eaters.

The thing that intrigued me most about them was Rays statements on their content of Keto acids.

Lacking ammonia, they are not technically a protein, so you will not see a sizable amount of protein if you look them up. However, Ray says they have “protein equivalents”, that combine with the free ammonia in our bodies to form protein.
I think he said 2-3 pounds of potato’s is equivalent to the protein in 1 quart of milk.
This mechanism of lowering your ammonia in the body is very protective as well he claimed.
Keto acids also have the benefit of being low in the aging amino acids :tryptophan, methionine, cystine. This high quality protein is reason enough to consume potato’s imo.
They make up the bulk of my protein content, as I try to keep beef consumption irregular due to high iron content and “aging and growth” amino acids, and have similar concerns about the amino content of milk (being made for a growing baby cow, I suspect they have too much of the “aging and growth” amino acids, particularly due to the whey fraction.
(I think it is telling the only health change (to my knowledge) Ray made when dealing with health problems was to lower his protein intake…)
Cheese/casein is a good way to mitigate this, but all US cheese is made with mold enzymes which give me bad reactions (I have been allergy tested and severely allergic to molds). I consume eggshell calcium to make up for low dairy consumption

as far as the conversion of starch to dextrose, I have not been able to find any quality data on this process (i don’t know how much residual starch remains after cooking :/ ) but I heard someone in the Ray Peat community (Atom Bergstrom) suggest cooking at 350 in the oven for about 90-120 minutes is effective, so what I do usually, or I cook them in a pot roast for 8+ hours.

 

[AlaskaJono]

We have been pre-chilling raw potatoes for at least a few days, then the starches are converted to sugars fo' sho'! Potatoes are in hibernation mode, and this is a known fact. Nothing about cooking. Then clean em and pop in the oven or boiling water. The texture and heaviness of the un chilled potatoes are noticeably different. We did many experiments, with the same homegrown potatoes, and it is noticeable when eating, and post-prandial. I just looked up various sites and there is a lot of info about regarding just cooking and then cooling the potatoes. Hmmmm. I don't know about that. Anyhow, just give it a go and see how you like it.

 

[Sapien]

We have been pre-chilling raw potatoes

Why pre chill your potatoes @AlaskaJono ?

 

[AlaskaJono]

The starches change to sugars simply put. And I find the digestion of then cooked potatoes are more complete, less heavy, no bloat feeling. I don't mean gas, just heavy.... . This is a trick I learned gardening in Alaska, from Ed the local potato (growing) guru. He did this to store seed potatoes for the following year. (Also then they do not freeze in a cellar, or get warm, then cold, etc. . We did that and then experimented.

 

[Sapien]

The starches change to sugars simply put.

Sugar is a strong word.

You mean there is fructose? It is technically possible, as they make high fructose corn syrup from corn.

I don’t see how cooling would achieve that though? Maybe next time you see your friend you can get him to clarify, I’m intrigued!

 

[Sapien]

Sugar is a strong word.

You mean there is fructose? It is technically possible, as they make high fructose corn syrup from corn.

Actually nvm I guess “dextrose” is classified as a sugar and that it is pure glucose

 

[Veritas IV]

Concur with beef neck bones, been having good luck with them the past 6 months or so. Have tried just about everything including chicken wing tips, but all of the ideas here would work.

A great time saver? Pressure cookers. 45 minutes in a pressure cooker equals 3 hours on the stovetop. There is one issue, i don't trust the materials the new models are made from. The ceramic ones should be ok if you don't scratch them, salt or over-acidify the broth while it's cooking since they'll wear down the coating, you can add those ingredients after. But if you buy a stainless steel stovetop model, be sure it's made from 18/0 aka 430 stainless steel. That class of steel contains no nickel which definitely leeches into the food. Some Chinese companies now also have a 21/0 "nickel free" stainless. Am including this extra info because it is a health forum after all...

Edit: stainless steel that has nickel in it is labeled 18/10, 18/8, 18/3, the last number denotes the quantity of nickel, none of which is good. Our body almost cannot expel it, so it just builds up.

I recall more pressure cooker info in the forum, maybe they'll have more ideas.

 

[AlaskaJono]

Actually nvm I guess “dextrose” is classified as a sugar and that it is pure glucose

Sorry, by sugars I mean mostly dextrose. (Glucose and sucrose and fructose all are sugars, but... yeah, It doesn't matter much to me and my metabolism). I left Alaska 10 years ago, and old Ed may be gone by now. But by all means try the fridge process for 3-4 days minimum and then cook them up, along side the non-fridged potatoes. See how you go. ;-)

 

[BubblesMcGee]

I read some misinformed health “gurus” saying to put the potato’s in the fridge overnight to turn the glucose back to resistant starch, so cooling it will in fact do that. Not sure if this happens only in fridge or even a few minutes at room temperature.

I know this is an old post but reheating fully will prevent endotoxin release. I was advised not to leave cooked starches in the fridge for more than a day or two max. Most cultures do not eat rice from the day prior.