Why are haiduts supplements being advertised on every page?

[Such_Saturation]

Hopefully it's not too much visibility

I'm only half joking

 

[Wilfrid]

Hopefully it's not too much visibility

I'm only half joking

I guessed so ( despite my not being a native english speaker.... )
That's why I almost killed myself laughing

 

[Such_Saturation]

I guessed so ( despite my not being a native english speaker.... )
That's why I almost killed myself laughing

You caught me... I was only 20% serious

 

[narouz]

Hopefully it's not too much visibility

I'm only half joking

I understand this worry, Such,
and there may be a legitimate basis for it.
So...there's that angle, too.

Like I said: this is a ticklish issue.
I see Chris's point of view.
Generally there would seem to be a no advertising/selling rule at play on the forum.
Witness for instance the recent issue with Visions of Strength.
At one point, at least, he stated pretty flatly that one of his goals was to sell his ideas about "Peat" supps.
But while his ideas were loosely tethered to some of Peat's ideas,
more often than not they seemed cranked out in a rather hyper way
and to be flavored with a heavy dose of rah-rah salesmanship and self-promotion.
Overall, I'd have to say his ideas were not Peatian.
More like VoS's ideas being flown under an unearned Peat banner.

So...not sure what transpired exactly, but Visions' campaign receded and he was ultimately banned.

With haidut...
so vastly different from VoS in almost every way.
But, just in my personal view,
I'd have to say that haidut's general emphasis on supplements is not strictly Peatian.
In the sense that I don't think Peat would go along with much of haidut's experimentation
or dosages.
Still...I see haidut's ideas as carefully considered and very well supported by great research,
and I do see them as being well anchored in Peat's ideas.
So I think of them as being legitimately Peat inspired.
And with haidut you don't have any of the self-promotion or heavy-handed marketing feel.

So, I've been happy the forum has found a way to handle issues of this nature
in a flexible way,
on a case-by-case basis.
If I were in Charlie's place I might've handled "The Haidut Exception" a bit differently,
but I'm okay with how he's done it.

I think Chris is also okay with it,
up to the point of the advertising.
There's a line there, for him.
I understand his recoil.
I don't really have it, but I understand it.
There could be a danger that overt advertisement of products by the forum
could cheapen the ethos of the forum as a whole
and begin to call into question the forum's purity of motivation.
Or--a lesser problem--that it could create a commercial flavor or perception
which might be considered a mismatch with Peat's well-established anti-commercialism.
(Here though, my view is that while we seek to respect Peat and keep the forum focus upon him,
we should not feel bound to try to copy all of his personal idiosyncrasies and characteristics.)

Not to force my own hobbyhorses into this conversation,
but I think this is a legitimate and related kind of thing:
I've always thought, for example, that our forum should articulate a faithful Peat diet.
I've thought we are uniquely positioned to do so because of our non-commercial status.
You see other people interpreting a Peat diet and selling it.
Well...the fact that they're selling it does raise a red flag.
It doesn't automatically damn those efforts to evil commercialism.
Just that the commercial motivation can not be ignored.

So...those kinds of considerations are what are at play, imo, with this haidut advertising thing.
I'm okay with it--not that that amounts to a hill of beans.
But I do see and understand Chris's discomfort and it is not nuthin'....

 

[Such_Saturation]

No I'm saying he is gonna get shut down... Also VisionOfStrength was only banned last month after a long absence if I'm not mistaken. And he never tried to sell anything.

 

[charlie]

Just to be clear, haidut did not ask me to do this for him. I went to him and told him what I would like to do for him since he has contributed so much here.

In the line of Peat thinking, haidut mentioned that he does not want to push his products much. I tried to keep the announcement simple on the top of the forum, not too flashy, just a small mention of his products. Many were waiting for the Nutrisorb replacement, I was also letting them know it was ready.

 

[narouz]

No I'm saying he is gonna get shut down... Also VisionOfStrength was only banned last month after a long absence if I'm not mistaken. And he never tried to sell anything.

Well...in at least one post,
when someone criticized a possible commercial angle in his threads,
VoS defended commercialism by noting the virtues of some kind of fancy marketing method.
I say "fancy" because I know nothing about marketing and can't remember the fancy name he used.
Posts can be edited by the author here, so...
I haven't gone back to try to find the post I refer to.
I just remember it and it gave me pause.
I liked some of his scientific ideas,
but I couldn't get too onboard with his efforts
because I didn't like the idea of being a part of a campaign to, ultimately, sell
VoS's supposedly "Peat" supplements/dosing notions....

 

[Such_Saturation]

No I'm saying he is gonna get shut down... Also VisionOfStrength was only banned last month after a long absence if I'm not mistaken. And he never tried to sell anything.

Well...in at least one post,
when someone criticized a possible commercial angle in his threads,
VoS defended commercialism by noting the virtues of some kind of fancy marketing method.
I say "fancy" because I know nothing about marketing and can't remember the fancy name he used.
Posts can be edited by the author here, so...
I haven't gone back to try to find the post I refer to.
I just remember it and it gave me pause.
I liked some of his scientific ideas,
but I couldn't get too onboard with his efforts
because I didn't like the idea of being a part of a campaign to, ultimately, sell
VoS's supposedly "Peat" supplements/dosing notions....

He never sold anything, unless he somehow set up an elaborate deal with the gas cans that he linked when people asked him what he used.

 

[narouz]

No I'm saying he is gonna get shut down... Also VisionOfStrength was only banned last month after a long absence if I'm not mistaken. And he never tried to sell anything.

Well...in at least one post,
when someone criticized a possible commercial angle in his threads,
VoS defended commercialism by noting the virtues of some kind of fancy marketing method.
I say "fancy" because I know nothing about marketing and can't remember the fancy name he used.
Posts can be edited by the author here, so...
I haven't gone back to try to find the post I refer to.
I just remember it and it gave me pause.
I liked some of his scientific ideas,
but I couldn't get too onboard with his efforts
because I didn't like the idea of being a part of a campaign to, ultimately, sell
VoS's supposedly "Peat" supplements/dosing notions....

He never sold anything, unless he somehow set up an elaborate deal with the gas cans that he linked when people asked him what he used.

I'm saying he aired a possible intention to sell.

 

[Such_Saturation]

No I'm saying he is gonna get shut down... Also VisionOfStrength was only banned last month after a long absence if I'm not mistaken. And he never tried to sell anything.

Well...in at least one post,
when someone criticized a possible commercial angle in his threads,
VoS defended commercialism by noting the virtues of some kind of fancy marketing method.
I say "fancy" because I know nothing about marketing and can't remember the fancy name he used.
Posts can be edited by the author here, so...
I haven't gone back to try to find the post I refer to.
I just remember it and it gave me pause.
I liked some of his scientific ideas,
but I couldn't get too onboard with his efforts
because I didn't like the idea of being a part of a campaign to, ultimately, sell
VoS's supposedly "Peat" supplements/dosing notions....

He never sold anything, unless he somehow set up an elaborate deal with the gas cans that he linked when people asked him what he used.

I'm saying he aired a possible intention to sell.

But is that why he was banned?

 

[narouz]

No I'm saying he is gonna get shut down... Also VisionOfStrength was only banned last month after a long absence if I'm not mistaken. And he never tried to sell anything.

Well...in at least one post,
when someone criticized a possible commercial angle in his threads,
VoS defended commercialism by noting the virtues of some kind of fancy marketing method.
I say "fancy" because I know nothing about marketing and can't remember the fancy name he used.
Posts can be edited by the author here, so...
I haven't gone back to try to find the post I refer to.
I just remember it and it gave me pause.
I liked some of his scientific ideas,
but I couldn't get too onboard with his efforts
because I didn't like the idea of being a part of a campaign to, ultimately, sell
VoS's supposedly "Peat" supplements/dosing notions....

He never sold anything, unless he somehow set up an elaborate deal with the gas cans that he linked when people asked him what he used.

I'm saying he aired a possible intention to sell.

But is that why he was banned?

No, I don't think so,
but I am not privy to all that transpires up in the steel and glass offices of The Ray Peat Forum,
high atop the shining skyscrapers of NYC and Shanghai.

 

[aquaman]

I do agree it's a big leap to make, and presents issues going forwards.

Yes Haidut's posts are excellent and he is one of the best contributors on the forum.

But given that he posts a lot, and that his signature is on every post, and that there are individual threads about each of his supplements with 1000s of views, I think having a banner is overkill as well as being generally against what this forum is about.

Does it mean that all top contributors have the right to have banners advertising their products, or only one? Is Haidut now the forum's official supplement provider? It just gets murky, very quickly.

Many of Haidut's findings are supportive of the supplements he makes, so there's also a slight conflict of interest potential there. In Haidut's case I don't think this would happen. But in others it could.

Then if new people find this forum, the first thing they see is the banner.

Further, RP says he doesn't take any supplements, so in essence it's against his body of work! None of the main people who support Ray's work suggest use of supplements to any real extent either, except for Thyroid (Lita Lee, Josh Rubin, Matt Stone, BioChem Nord etc).

There's just too many issues with this.

 

[schultz]

I didn't even notice the banner...

I'm surprised this bugs people.

 

[chris]

But given that he posts a lot, and that his signature is on every post, and that there are individual threads about each of his supplements with 1000s of views, I think having a banner is overkill as well as being generally against what this forum is about.

Does it mean that all top contributors have the right to have banners advertising their products, or only one? Is Haidut now the forum's official supplement provider? It just gets murky, very quickly.

This part summarises my thoughts.

 

[jaguar43]

I do agree it's a big leap to make, and presents issues going forwards.

Yes Haidut's posts are excellent and he is one of the best contributors on the forum.

But given that he posts a lot, and that his signature is on every post, and that there are individual threads about each of his supplements with 1000s of views, I think having a banner is overkill as well as being generally against what this forum is about.

Does it mean that all top contributors have the right to have banners advertising their products, or only one? Is Haidut now the forum's official supplement provider? It just gets murky, very quickly.

Many of Haidut's findings are supportive of the supplements he makes, so there's also a slight conflict of interest potential there. In Haidut's case I don't think this would happen. But in others it could.

Then if new people find this forum, the first thing they see is the banner.

Further, RP says he doesn't take any supplements, so in essence it's against his body of work! None of the main people who support Ray's work suggest use of supplements to any real extent either, except for Thyroid (Lita Lee, Josh Rubin, Matt Stone, BioChem Nord etc).

There's just too many issues with this.

Ray Peat has stated he takes DHEA and aspirin personally. So the last part of your comment is incorrect.

Also, Just because Ray Peat doesn't use a specific supplement, doesn't mean its worthless to take it. You are trying to dogmatize his work by only suggesting that we should only take what he advocate in the present time. For example, he doesn't advocate any vitamin e brands, but products like lotion crafter and swanson can be helpful.

I wouldn't even call the banner advertising. I would categorize it as link.

Besides, Haidut Doesn't do this for a living, he does it on the side. No one else is willing to do the work to make good quality product, are they ? So why should you criticize him and charlie ?

Hopefully Haidut doesn't find these comments on this thread discourteous and then stops posting on this forum. That would be a great lost to the forum.

 

[chris]

jag - I have not once criticised haidut, or his products, in fact the opposite, I have not one bad thing to say about haidut.

As I've said before my issue is with the advertisement on the top of a forum.

I think with things like this, and if people accept it, where does it stop? Will pictures be added of products at the top and at what point, then, does this place become a place of advertising supplements rather than a place to discuss Peats work and related ideas?

How many posts do I need to make to qualify for an advertising spot?

 

[Anonymous]

jag - I have not once criticised haidut, or his products, in fact the opposite, I have not one bad thing to say about haidut.

As I've said before my issue is with the advertisement on the top of a forum.

I think with things like this, and if people accept it, where does it stop? Will pictures be added of products at the top and at what point, then, does this place become a place of advertising supplements rather than a place to discuss Peats work and related ideas?

How many posts do I need to make to qualify for an advertising spot?

I can't tell if you are actually serious.

 

[chris]

jag - I have not once criticised haidut, or his products, in fact the opposite, I have not one bad thing to say about haidut.

As I've said before my issue is with the advertisement on the top of a forum.

I think with things like this, and if people accept it, where does it stop? Will pictures be added of products at the top and at what point, then, does this place become a place of advertising supplements rather than a place to discuss Peats work and related ideas?

How many posts do I need to make to qualify for an advertising spot?

I can't tell if you are actually serious.

What part's troubling you?

 

[Anonymous]

jag - I have not once criticised haidut, or his products, in fact the opposite, I have not one bad thing to say about haidut.

As I've said before my issue is with the advertisement on the top of a forum.

I think with things like this, and if people accept it, where does it stop? Will pictures be added of products at the top and at what point, then, does this place become a place of advertising supplements rather than a place to discuss Peats work and related ideas?

How many posts do I need to make to qualify for an advertising spot?

I can't tell if you are actually serious.

What part's troubling you?

You sound like a child.

 

[narouz]

I do agree it's a big leap to make, and presents issues going forwards.

Yes Haidut's posts are excellent and he is one of the best contributors on the forum.

But given that he posts a lot, and that his signature is on every post, and that there are individual threads about each of his supplements with 1000s of views, I think having a banner is overkill as well as being generally against what this forum is about.

Does it mean that all top contributors have the right to have banners advertising their products, or only one? Is Haidut now the forum's official supplement provider? It just gets murky, very quickly.

Many of Haidut's findings are supportive of the supplements he makes, so there's also a slight conflict of interest potential there. In Haidut's case I don't think this would happen. But in others it could.

Then if new people find this forum, the first thing they see is the banner.

Further, RP says he doesn't take any supplements, so in essence it's against his body of work! None of the main people who support Ray's work suggest use of supplements to any real extent either, except for Thyroid (Lita Lee, Josh Rubin, Matt Stone, BioChem Nord etc).

There's just too many issues with this.

Ray Peat has stated he takes DHEA and aspirin personally. So the last part of your comment is incorrect.

Also, Just because Ray Peat doesn't use a specific supplement, doesn't mean its worthless to take it. You are trying to dogmatize his work by only suggesting that we should only take what he advocate in the present time. For example, he doesn't advocate any vitamin e brands, but products like lotion crafter and swanson can be helpful.

I wouldn't even call the banner advertising. I would categorize it as link.

Besides, Haidut Doesn't do this for a living, he does it on the side. No one else is willing to do the work to make good quality product, are they ? So why should you criticize him and charlie ?

Hopefully Haidut doesn't find these comments on this thread discourteous and then stops posting on this forum. That would be a great lost to the forum.

Generally, Peat does not recommend taking a lot of supplements,
especially taking huge doses.
Can't we say this is generally true?
He has said that one of his first recommendations to people experiencing health troubles
is to stop taking all supplements--because of allergens or bad ingredients or whatever.
And when he does suggest supplements,
the doses tend to be very modest.
Generally. Generally.
I would think we could agree on this.

When we (note I said "we" because I include myself) experiment along haidut lines
with multi-thousands of grams of lysine or whatever...
I would have to say that that departs from basic, general Peat thinking.
I'm all for haidut.
Just pointing out that he is clearly different from Peat in his views on supplement taking.

Chris is not knocking haidut.
I believe he has said he even buys some of haidut's products.
Chris's complaint is about the advertising by the forum.

So, to summarize:
Chris is not criticizing haidut.
Chris is criticizing Charlie's advertising of haidut's products.
This seems to me to be a reasonable criticism
and it should not be censored or shut down because of fears haidut might be offended.
I hope he is not.
But we don't need to start tiptoeing around haidut's imagined sensitivities
when Chris isn't even criticizing him.