Sunmountain's Log

Posting copied and pasted from Jennifer's log, stardate Tuesday, July 7:

Now about sibo. Breath test indicated high methane readings. Methane sibo is caused not by bacteria at all. Caused by ancient single-celled no-nucleus organism called Archaea. Archaea live in our guts and convert the hydrogen from the bacteria by combining it with CO2 into methane. This is normal. Everyone produces some methane. It's when archaea multiply too much that too much methane is produced.

Hydrogen sibo is caused by bacteria and susceptible to antibiotics. Archaea do not respond to antibiotics. Also, methane sibo correlates to constipation, while hydrogen sibo to diarrhea.

The majority of Archaea in human gut is M. Smithii. This fellow and his companions are very good at extracting every ounce of nutrition from the food they are fed. So methane sibo is also linked with obesity...hooray!!! I'm 138 lbs today (113 when I started peating). Everyone in my family of origin is skinny, but I'm gonna balloon...yaaay!

There is one study out that says Archaea are susceptible to high dose Rifaximin plus Neomycin. My GI won't prescribe Neomycin due to side effects. I'm going along with his recommendations for now. He suggested high dose Rifaximin plus Berberine. There's another protocol for garlic (Allimed) plus Berberine that is supposed to work.

Meanwhile a poster named Gbolduev suggested that marine plankton can get rid of any kind sibo. I'm going to try that first.

So my question is that if it's the Archaea causing the constipation, where does that leave serotonin?

One very good thing that came about by chance on reading Gbolduev's posts was that I realized that my eating high protein was causing ammonia build-up instead of it being used by the body. My body can't use all that protein because of blood sugar issues and pancreas not working properly. I backed off the high protein, and within a day my joint pain resolved. I had a headache that lasted 5 days. I never get headaches. Maybe it was the ammonia leaving the body.

My muscles are still stiff. I don't know what that's about. And when I climb a few steps, my muscles hurt. All that protein became ammonia.

My main source of high protein was homemade farmer cheese. I was making a batch and going through that during the week. I wonder if it was some bad amino acid building in the cheese as it aged...tryptophan?

Meanwhile labs showed I have reactive hypoglycemia, and though the lab messed up the insulin test two times (!), the docs are saying I'm pretty much IR, and I think they're right. I'm not about to go in for a third time cuz it was very, very hard on my pancreas each time after the tests. My sugar was going up and down like crazy.

And now the GI is saying I have gastroparesis.

So we know all these things go together. I wonder what is the role of M. Smithii in all this.

Oh, and the crying has stopped, mostly. It seems to have gone out with the ammonia or lactate or histamine, or whichever terrible amine had got me.

How do I figure out if I have high or low serotonin? The obvious answer is high, but then why am I constipated? Yes, I know, the Archaea are making me constipated, but doesn't that still mean low serotonin?

I'm going in Monday for a few more tests, including prolactin. If that is high, would that suggest high serotonin?

I would guess you have high serotonin levels.

sunmountain said:

Oh, and the crying has stopped, mostly. It seems to have gone out with the ammonia or lactate or histamine, or whichever terrible amine had got me.

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It's good that you are better now, Sunmountain!

Haidut wrote something about ammonia and Ceylon cinnamon. In case your problem comes back, you might want to check the link.

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=4400&start=60

sunmountain said:

How do I figure out if I have high or low serotonin? The obvious answer is high, but then why am I constipated? Yes, I know, the Archaea are making me constipated, but doesn't that still mean low serotonin?

I'm going in Monday for a few more tests, including prolactin. If that is high, would that suggest high serotonin?

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I would think the Archaea are inflammation inducing given you have struggled with diarrhea and constipation for a long time now. You could be constipated due to gut inflammation and the resulting swelling/thickening of your intestinal walls. I explained this more thoroughly on my log, but the fact that you've been dealing with an overgrowth and for quite some time now, I would think you have resulting inflammation.

The urine 5-HIAA (serotonin metabolite test) is the test that Ray recommended I get for testing serotonin accurately. It's very easy to take. I went to a lab, peed in a cup and it was done! :)

High prolactin would indicate high estrogen in tissues. It's not uncommon for high estrogen and serotonin to go hand in hand. Since you no longer menstruate you may not recall, but had you in the past ever noticed a worsening of your digestion around the time of your period? With me, I get an extreme bout of diarrhea right before I have breakthrough bleeding.

The farmers cheese and inflammation could be from the histamines rising as it ages, sure, but it could also be that your gut is inflamed/mucosal wall damaged and not producing necessary enzymes to break down protein? How do you do with gelatinous broths? Also, are you using cascara? The emodin it contains is great for healing the gut lining and stimulating bowel movements. I make a tincture by soaking the cascara powder in distilled water overnight. Then I strain it through a coffee filter and I'm left with an extremely bitter liquid extract.

I hope you see improvements soon, sunmountain!

Jennifer said:

sunmountain said:

How do I figure out if I have high or low serotonin? The obvious answer is high, but then why am I constipated? Yes, I know, the Archaea are making me constipated, but doesn't that still mean low serotonin?

I'm going in Monday for a few more tests, including prolactin. If that is high, would that suggest high serotonin?

Click to expand...

I would think the Archaea are inflammation inducing given you have struggled with diarrhea and constipation for a long time now. You could be constipated due to gut inflammation and the resulting swelling/thickening of your intestinal walls. I explained this more thoroughly on my log, but the fact that you've been dealing with an overgrowth and for quite some time now, I would think you have resulting inflammation.

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Wouldn't epsom salt applied topically help with inflammation and constipation and ammonia?

The other day I stirred as much epsom salt into water as would dissolve and added a little bit coconut oil. I applied this mixture on my body. Immediately nice warm, relaxing feeling. :) I had to be carefull though with the abdomen to avoid diarrhea.

Ray Peat:

"The loss of magnesium contributes to vasoconstriction, inflammation, and bone loss."

"The ammonia is produced by the breakdown of protein. During stress or fasting, the loss of tissue protein can be minimized by supplementing the minerals, potassium, sodium, magnesium, and calcium."

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/water.shtml

Jennifer,

I seem to be missing an important link somewhere. What is the connection, if any, between serotonin and gut bacteria? If I lower my serotonin somehow (ondansetron, lisuride, whatever), how will that affect my biome and bloating, if at all?

You are probably right about an inflamed gut. The GI kept talking motility, and diagnosed me with gastroparesis, so yea food is sitting around a lot for the little guys to feast upon.

I had been taking cascara for nearly a year I think and stopped it when I got diarrhea. I don't remember why I got the diarrhea...I don't think I ever figured it out. Pepto stopped the diarrhea, but I didn't go back to cascara. Then I went to Mexico and came back with perfect transit, which slowly deteriorated here back to being slow.

Do you think cascara is ok to take long-term, like a year? Anyway, I've been off it for several months, and will go back on it once a day. Maybe I could combine it with Aloe juice.

The GI was very insistent about doing something for the motility. He said aloe. His nurse said magnesium citrate is a cathartic. Maybe I could make up some mag bicarbonate.

I'm going in tomorrow morning for the lipids and prolactic etc. Perhaps if the prolactic comes high, I could ask for the 5-HIAA test...I just asked for a bunch of tests.

I'm nearly through with one bottle of plankton. No difference to bloating so far. However, today I went low-fodmap, and that seems to help. I don't know if I want to try another bottle of plankton cuz they're like $40 per bottle. I suspect I'll need a killing agent, and I'm just wondering if I should do the garlic (allimed) plus berb first, or the rifaximin plus berb (GI's script).

How are you feeling? Any better?

Giraffe,

Thanks so much for the link to ceylon cinnamon and ammonia. I will try the c. cinnamon soon.

Your idea of a poultice of epsom salt and CO sounds intriguing. How long did you keep it on, and did you sit in the bathtub for applying it and while it stayed on?

Your avatar makes me smile...

The idea with the epsom salt is not really mine. I read a lot about magnesium oil (= magnesium chloride + water) in this forum. Many forum members who used magnesium oil topically made experiences similar to mine. As I did not have magnesium chloride I tried it with epsom salt. The mixture is liquid and it is absorbed immediateley. Be cautious with the abdomen! :)

Ahhh...I have magnesium oil. I use it inconsistently. I never thought to put it on the abdomen. I might try it though because I don't know that it absorbs that much...

Would transdermal magnesium help peristalsis, though? Or just what's in the colon?

I think Peat would agree that motility is important, too. Slow transit measn more time for endotoxin to be a absorbed and generally give your system a had time.
Serotonin can increase motility, but at a cost.
The aloe suggestion may be a good one. I think it has emodin, like cascara (and maybe pau d'arco?). I'd say worth a try.
Did you find somethig saying garlic is good against archaea?

Two tests that the GI ordered for Hu and AchR antibodies have back positive. Here is what my internist says:

The first one is the Hu antibody that suggests there might be some abnormality in your lung that is causing the antibody. I would like to get a chest CT to assess this.
The second one is a positive AchR antibody that suggests there might be a muscle and nerve issue that could be causing the fatigue that you are experiencing. The CT will also take a look to see if your thymus is enlarged (sometime goes along with this issue). I would also like you to get nerve conduction studies and then maybe see a neurologist to help us sort this out.

She also pointed out that they found H. Pylori. The GI had said prior to testing that a lot of people have H. Pylori and it is not always a problem. I need to check in with him about these results.

Anyone have any knowledge about these antibodies, and Peatish recommendations?

Tara, I guess I'm confused about the serotonin-motility-bacteria thing because it seems likely that I have high serotonin, which should correlate with good transit, right?

I don't know anything about the specific antibodies.
A CT scan is like a succession of many x-rays. If it were me, I would not want a CT scan unless I had a very strong reason for needing it - destructive testing.
As far as I know MRI's are much more benign - I think they are more like lots of ultrasound.

Maybe you have high serotonin because your body is trying to get things moving, but it's still slow because of other factors? Jennifer mentioned inflammation, which seems credible to me. Cascara or aloe may help reduce inflammation.

I had the CT this morning with contrast. Could not have MRI (doc was willing though she said for lungs CT better) because I have very bad claustrophobia and could do it only under complete sedation, which doc said can't be done.

I remember some posts saying to take something after radiation that can help mitigate. Anyone remember what it is?

Next step in coming days I'll start rifaximin plus berberine.

I think these two autoantibodies are considered quite bad due to association with cancer and neurological damage.

Is it a good way to check if a new food or supplement is working for you -- other than how it makes you feel which is not always reliable -- by checking temp/pulse before and an hour after eating it, over the course of a few days?

sunmountain said:

Jennifer,

I seem to be missing an important link somewhere. What is the connection, if any, between serotonin and gut bacteria? If I lower my serotonin somehow (ondansetron, lisuride, whatever), how will that affect my biome and bloating, if at all?

Click to expand...

Honestly, I'm not sure. I know there's a lot of debate over good versus bad bacteria and our "micro-biome" so I can only go by my experience to tell me what's healthy for me. I did a diet high in the supposedly "beneficial" fermentable fibers and it's what caused this whole mess I've been trying to fix. For me, killing the bacteria with minocycline/other antimicrobial agents was the only thing that gave me any noticeable relief. The biggest being the rash, brain fog and diarrhea disappearing. Along with that, dropping the fiber and starch helped me have good transit and elimination. The bloating is also gone. I go to bed with my stomach just as flat as when I wake first thing in the morning.

I think a lot of my bloating was due to inflammation. So I attacked the bacterial overgrowth that contributed to the inflammation and I removed the fiber and starch that also contributed to the inflammation by feeding the bacteria, but also by causing irritation through mechanical scratching and stretching of my intestinal canal by bulking up my stools. In my experience, milk is a bulking food, but nothing like fiber. I highly recommend reading through https://www.gutsense.org as this will help you get a better understanding of what and how inflammation of the intestines affects constipation and diarrhea. I found Mr. Monastyrsky's explanation of ash and what constitutes a normal sized stool to be disturbingly fascinating. LOL

sunmountain said:

I had been taking cascara for nearly a year I think and stopped it when I got diarrhea. I don't remember why I got the diarrhea...I don't think I ever figured it out. Pepto stopped the diarrhea, but I didn't go back to cascara. Then I went to Mexico and came back with perfect transit, which slowly deteriorated here back to being slow.

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Hmm...was the possible diarrhea from cascara around the time you were taking the caffeine pills? If so, the cascara may have been innocent, but it definitely can cause diarrhea if too much is taken. However, the emodin is very healing to the intestines. It's the same beneficial compound in aloe but it has to be fresh aloe or properly dried so that the emodin is still active. A lot of companies remove the bitter constituent (emodin) from their products. I get my aloe vera leaf powder from here:

https://www.mountainroseherbs.com/produ ... er/profile

Both aloe and cascara contain anthraquinones which are anti-microbial. I actually prefer cascara because I find it to be much more bitter and I figure that's a good sign that its emodin content is higher and/or more active. I could be wrong, but I notice almost instant relief from intestinal pain when I consume cascara extract.

If I remember correctly, Peata mentioned Pepto killing off a certain bad bacteria. Maybe it helped because of that?

In Mexico, you were getting over a virus and given something for it, right? There's also the relaxation factor in a sunny climate that could be a reason for the perfect transit? The sun may have helped get your thyroid running better and thus it sped up your transit?

sunmountain said:

Do you think cascara is ok to take long-term, like a year? Anyway, I've been off it for several months, and will go back on it once a day. Maybe I could combine it with Aloe juice.

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I'm not positive. I'll do a little digging around and see what I find, but I don't recall reading where Ray mentioned only using cascara for a certain length of time. It is a laxative so I'm not sure we want to be reliant on it long-term if only for the fact that that would mean we haven't fixed the underlying cause?

Again, if you decide to go with aloe, I'd recommend making it fresh from the leaf or buy it in powdered form like I linked above. Most of the juices on the market don't contain the emodin. There are videos on YouTube that show where in the leaf the the emodin is contained and how to gather it. It's a golden sap an inch (?) or so above the base of the leaf.

sunmountain said:

The GI was very insistent about doing something for the motility. He said aloe. His nurse said magnesium citrate is a cathartic. Maybe I could make up some mag bicarbonate.

Click to expand...

I use cascara and milk of magnesia. Does caffeinated coffee help stimulate your bowels at all?

sunmountain said:

She also pointed out that they found H. Pylori. The GI had said prior to testing that a lot of people have H. Pylori and it is not always a problem. I need to check in with him about these results.

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Hmm...years back I read that we all carry H. Pylori, but I honestly never felt reassured by that. Does she know if your level was what they would consider normal or high?

A few years back when I ended up in the ER for the burning gut, I suspected that I may of had ulcers, which H. Pylori is now known to cause, so that's when I started taking the goldenseal root extract. Goldenseal contains berberine and acts like an antibiotic to kill H. Pylori. It worked almost immediately at getting rid of the burning.

Well, I hope you find something that will help with your digestion and elimination. I think so much of your symptoms would resolve just with that alone.

Started Rifaximin 550 x 3/day plus berberine hcl 1g x 2/day Saturday night. Took two plankton capsules yesterday. No much action yesterday other than fatigue and return of joint pain. Took two heaping T AC last night plus one cascara. This morning had watery stool (but not full blown diarrhea) three times. Quite a bit came out, and I felt relieved after the third. My guess would be that old s**t came out (sorry, TMI). The joint pain is still there this morning, which might mean 2T AC was not enough to mop toxins.

I checked with Ray about long term use of cascara, this is what he said: "If the cascara is well aged, and dark brown, it can be used indefinitely with protective effects."

I'm using Mountain Rose Herbs cascara, which works but is not dark brown. So trying to source farmalabor cascara. If anyone has link, please post. Farmalabor's website does not have a buying option.

Thanks for your post, Jennifer. There's a lot in there to unpack. I cannot go off starch because I can't eat dairy or high protein or fructose. I'm now transitioning to low-FODMAP diet, and there is definitely a correlation with less bloating on it. I looked up fermenatable fibers, and it seems to include everything, but maybe I'm not understanding. What foods did you eat while on that diet, and how long ago?

The GI's nurse explained me the difference between laxative (softens stool) and cathartic (improves transit). I did not feel any difference with Aloe, so you may be right that they remove the emodin. I now realize that cascara is in fact a cathartic. So I'm going back on it, but I want the farmalabor. I don't think I need laxative, as stools are fairly normal. I think caffeine does help too, but I will start back with cascara and then see if I need to add caffeine back.

I am taking tons of berberine, so that oughta take care of the H. Pylori, if in fact it is part of the problem. I don't know how high the count, will try to find out.

Regarding Mexico, your guesses are good. I'd add copious amounts of fresh OJ. I just bought a citrus juicer that's easy to use and clean, and drinking fresh OJ. Buying bags and bags of oranges is another story...that's the time consuming part, not the juicing.

Adding: Having some water retention on the Rifaximin. Continuing progest-e and Swanson high gamma. Anything else to reduce water while on antibiotics? Can I go higher with the high gamma?

Also is there any problem drinking OJ while on antibiotics?

Results pre-antibiotic:

PTH 45 (10-65)
Calcium 9.4 (8.4-10.5)
Vitamin A 47 (38-98)
Lactic acid 1.1 (0.5-2.2)
Prolactin 10.8 (3.8-23.2)
Cholesterol 216
Triglycerides 96
HDL 68
LDL 129
Non HDL 148
Total chol/HDL ratio 3.2

Feedback, anyone? I see prolactin is high. Cholesterol is on the high side, so that is not the reason why I am not able to increase thyroid. Probably due to fatty liver?

The GI wants me to do an upper endoscopy under full sedation (they know I can't go through without full sedation). What is he looking for?

Also scheduled is liver ultrasound (I already know I have fatty liver..."fat infiltrations" and hemangionomas mentioned on CT scan) and EMG nerve conduction study.

Good grief, that's a LOT of tests.

Full sedation has its risks. Can you find out more from them about what they are looking for, and what the procedure entails?
I once had a gastroscopy with local anaesthetic (they agreed to it, but they would have sedated me if I hadn't argued) It was briefly quite uncomfortable for a minute or less while the tube went down my throat, then interesting to see the pictures on the screen as they were looking, then took awhile to release all the gas they pump in. This only involved looking in the stomach, not the intestine. I'm guessing an upper endoscopy looks into the beginning of the small intestine?

I'd guess the other two tests are pretty non-invasive/benign.
Others probably know more about these.