Thyroid Supplement

Destiny, Wilfrid just posted this in the "Instructions on How to Supplement With Glandular Thyroid" thread:

Wilfrid said:

Charlie,

When I received my cynoplus I took 1/4 of the pill at each meal but this dosage was too high for me, so I decided to ask about the starting dose to Ray Peat.
Then he told me that 1/8th of the tablet two to three times daily (with meals) was a common starting dose if I paid really attention to the reaction of my body.
This dosage was really beyond that I thought to be optimal.....but about two weeks after taking this dosage I felt really good and much relaxed than ever before!!
Sound strange but I have a (french) book about the thyroid and it says that more than 3-3,5mcg of T3 at time could do more harm than good when it comes to thyroid supplementation, partly because the body usually produce no more than this amount by hours, and could interfere with the body's own production.

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viewtopic.php?f=3&t=442

With that being said. I think I will be doing 1/8th of a pill to start out with, maybe twice a day.

Thank you Charlie! How much T3 is in our 130mg tabs? Same as Armour?

For Armour I found this"
Armour® Thyroid (thyroid tablets, USP)* for oral use is a natural preparation derived from
porcine thyroid glands and has a strong, characteristic odor. (T3 liothyronine is approximately
four times as potent as T4 levothyroxine on a microgram for microgram basis.) They provide 38
mcg levothyroxine (T4) and 9 mcg liothyronine (T3) per grain of thyroid.

If it is comparable, then:
1 tab = 2 grain = 9mcg T3
1/2 tab = 1 grain = 4.5 mcg T3
1/4 tab = 1/2 grain - 2.25 mcg T3

If taking more than 3-3/5mcg is too much then 1/4 tab at a time seems a good dose.

Good to know! I will definitelys tick with no more than that at any given time, instead taking it more often during day if required.

Destiny, I am not sure about strength. However, narouz posted this link below and I kind of agree that it is probably 1/4 the strength of the Armour pills, or maybe even the thyoid-s and thiroyd.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewt ... =2&t=23999

I use the one suggested by Lita Lee http://www.longnaturalhealth.com/sites/ ... dHowTo.pdf

I think it is Nutri Pak

If I remember correctly. Lita Lee said herself there is no way of knowing the strength of them as they vary from batch to batch.

That is correct Charlie, it says in the article I posted from her as well. Its supposed to be 2 grain/130mg tab.

I apologize if this was asked already. Does anyone have any sources on what happens physiologically when too much T3 is taken? We know T4 gets converted to reverse T3, but I'm curious as to what happens in the body when too much T3 is taken. I'm not interested in the effects we notice like pounding heart, etc, but what happens at the physiological level.

Will Cytomel alone be helpful for my 84 year old grandmother with dementia or should it be combined with Cynoplus ?

David said:

Will Cytomel alone be helpful for my 84 year old grandmother with dementia or should it be combined with Cynoplus ?

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Given what I know, of course I couldn't say whether either might help her.
Do you have any labs for her?

My dad has some dementia, and I've wondered if thyroid might help him.
I've been trying to get some lab result records from his doctor.

I wouldn't use Cytomel--straight T3.
I can be pretty intense and sudden in effect,
and could be dangerous to an elderly person's heart.

I would try to get some labs,
and if I were to try anything it would be a little natural dessicated thyroid very gradually.

narouz said:

David said:

Will Cytomel alone be helpful for my 84 year old grandmother with dementia or should it be combined with Cynoplus ?

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Given what I know, of course I couldn't say whether either might help her.
Do you have any labs for her?

My dad has some dementia, and I've wondered if thyroid might help him.
I've been trying to get some lab result records from his doctor.

I wouldn't use Cytomel--straight T3.
I can be pretty intense and sudden in effect,
and could be dangerous to an elderly person's heart.

I would try to get some labs,
and if I were to try anything it would be a little natural dessicated thyroid very gradually.

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I don't have lab information right now. But she does have hypothyroid symptoms such as cold hands, cold feet, complains about feeling cold. She also has arthritis, COPD, atherosclerosis, edema, and constipation which I told Ray Peat. And I told him I was planning to give her Now Foods magnesium oxide powder, Beyond a Century niacinamide powder, Progest-E, Life Extension Super K, aspirin, and Cytomel and asked him about dosages and this was response:

"The body produces just a few micrograms of T3 per hour, so dose should be smaller than that, except that with a big meal a dose of 6 to 8 mcg is probably o.k, since it will take a few hours to be absorbed. Magnesium oxide is likely to be mostly a laxative, since it isn't well absorbed. Coffee, including decaffeinated, is a good source of magnesium; I sometimes make a magnesium supplement by boiling a pound of greens (kale, beets, spinach, etc.) in a little water, making a concentrated extract rich in magnesium.
Old people are often unable to excrete drugs at the usual rate, so doses that are safe for younger people are not necessarily safe for them."

It seemed the only supplement he didn't think would be good would be the magnesium, so I decided not to get that. I would think he would've mentioned the Cytomel not being safe, rather than the magnesium not being absorbed well if he thought it was dangerous. When I listed the medications she is currently taking, he said he doesn't recommend the donepezil and that it's shocking that anyone is still prescribing Tylenol for old people.
In his Dementia article he says :

"Although just supplementing with progesterone and/or thyroid can sometimes produce rapid improvement in brain function, it would be reasonable to correct as many of the metabolic defects as possible, starting with the elimination of polyunsaturated fats from the diet, and eating an antiinflammatory diet, low in iron, phosphate, antithyroid or estrogenic substances, and starches, with fruits and saturated fats as the main calorie sources. Aspirin, vitamin K (essential for brain lipid synthesis and growth regulation), magnesium, niacinamide, antihistamines and antiserotonin drugs (such as cyproheptadine), antibiotics (especially antiinflammatory antibiotics such as minocycline) and diuretics such as acetazolamide are supplements that are likely to be beneficial. Small amounts of baking soda, or rebreathing in a bag to increase carbon dioxide, can increase blood circulation to the brain. "

Also, here http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/alzheimers2.shtml he says:

"In 1976, I saw a 52 year-old woman who had the diagnosis of epileptic dementia. After 3 or 4 days of taking progesterone, her mental function returned to the extent that she could find her way around town by herself, and could work. A few months later, she returned to graduate school, got straight As and a master's degree. A few years later, a man in his 80s showed the classical signs of senile dementia, with childishness, confusion, self-centeredness, and unstable emotions. A few days after getting a mixture of thyroid, pregnenolone, and progesterone, his mind was again clear, and he was able to work on a research project he had set aside years before."

He has also told me he had a friend my grandmother's age who was given pregnenolone and progesterone. He said about the amounts: "Maybe 100 or 200 mg of each, per day. Within a week he called to apologize for his previous dementia, and for years he would call once a week for an hour to talk about biology."

Oh my gawd. I just read through all 27 pages trying to figure out what thyroid supp I should take and I'm just as confused as I was on page 1! I know that no one can really tell me what would be best for me to take, so I shouldn't feel let down like I do. Can someone answer this question? With low T3 would it be wise to start with both T3 and T4 if going the synthetic route? Next question, what's the best place to buy those? I looked at mymexicandrugstore and could only find Cynoplus, but maybe I'm missing something. I think my brain is scrambled...

http://farmaciadelnino.com/eng/index


This one should have it and I will get Peat's dosing instructions from Roddy site.

Thank you, Haagendazendiane!

Okay, but still a bit confused here. It looks like Cynomel is just T3, Cynoplus is T3 and T4 and Cytomel is ....not sure. Peat says he uses both cynoplus and cynomel, correct? Would you start with the cynomel ore the cynoplus or both? I've probably read the answer, but the similarity in names has my head spinning. I think I'm set on trying the synthetic thyroid for both myself and my son. I got an email back from Peat saying he thought it would be good to give small amounts (of thyroid) to my son, but without any specifics. I feel so close yet so far away!

kofimama, I recently learned that Peat only recommends 4/5mcg of T3 per hour, maximum, because this is what the body will normally produce per hour. Taking more isn't helpful. So by small amounts for your son, maybe he means even less than that (I am guessing though). The Danny Roddy peat email compendium has a lot of useful exchanges, worth reading it.

In Peat's articles about thyroid he mentions a 4:1 ratio of T4 to T3 being good, and that some people feel even better with a 3:1 ratio.

Also, don't panic! I'm sure you'll get there.

Great info, Beebop! Thank you.

kofimama said:

It looks like Cynomel is just T3, Cynoplus is T3 and T4 and Cytomel is ....not sure

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Everything I've read points to Cytomel and Cynomel being the same chemically, Liothyronine.

kofimama said:

I think I'm set on trying the synthetic thyroid for both myself and my son.

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No offense, but it sounds like the drug industry still has you frightened of trying anything "natural." This is one of their biggest weapons and the mainstream medical people use the same tactics. "If you try anything other than what we recommend, you will get sick and die!"

Synthetic means the product is a chemical that has none of the other possibly useful substances in it. Additionally, synthetics are sometimes off structurally.

One characteristic of this forum is that the people on it are pretty focused on natural approaches like using food first and then supplementing if their health isn't optimized by eating correctly.

This doesn't have to be a huge, "My life and my child's life depends on this decision" sort of thing. It certainly isn't going to be life threatening to take cynomel/cytomel and cynoplus in small doses for a week or two and then adjust the dose upwards until you get some tangible results.

edwardBe said:

kofimama said:

I think I'm set on trying the synthetic thyroid for both myself and my son.

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No offense, but it sounds like the drug industry still has you frightened of trying anything "natural." This is one of their biggest weapons and the mainstream medical people use the same tactics. "If you try anything other than what we recommend, you will get sick and die!"

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HUH?

Rather, it seems to me as though kofimama has made an informed decision after doing her research and asking for input.
Ray Peat recommends and uses synthetic thyroid himself.

Ray Peat said:

I use Cynoplus and Cynomel from http://www.mymexicandrugstore.org, which are generally more economical and more consistent than some of the glandular products.

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(FYI, he no longer orders from mymexicandrugstore.)

Just my impression of the dialog. As I said, no offense.