Self-experiment: Feeling Great After 2 Weeks Of No Coffee Or White Sugar

[japanesedude]

Last year I've quit drinking coffee for 2months to see how I feel.
I felt more peaceful and less irritated without coffee but at the end of the day I still wanna drink coffee everyday.
caffeine gives me focus,motivation and better mood. sometimes it make me angry but it is what it is.

 

[metabolizm]

I don't think Ray acknowledges often enough the problems some people have with coffee. The most he ever concedes is that it can cause a stress reaction when taken on an empty stomach, but he's a bit blinkered, or a bit coy, beyond that.

 

[not_James_Bond]

I use decaffeinated (instant) coffee cuz I like the taste of coffee as an alternative to black tea, Kenco is the one I use, I can sometimes drink it late in the evening, without 'negative' sleep issues

 

[Peatogenic]

I was able to remove attachment to emotions/dysregulation without giving up coffee. I drink little, though (organic shade grown espresso roast)....maybe a half cup every morning and like an espresso or a tad of cold brew during the day.... some days multiple espressos...

Espresso feels like a digestive elixir, stabilizing kind of like aspirin.

(Oh, I also don't use cane sugar or cream at all.)

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Coffee also messes with Vitamin D Receptor expression iirc,with rather large effects,like 50 to 70 percent reduction or so.Also the enzyme induction in the liver:always good,or are useful metabolites also degraded faster?

 

[Spartan300]

Coffee also messes with Vitamin D Receptor expression iirc,with rather large effects,like 50 to 70 percent reduction or so.

Would this mean that in the presence of high levels of vit D the benefits might not be seen?

 

[postman]

Sugar makes me feel kinda high, in a negative, absent-minded kind of way. I think it might be due to some kind of intestinal infeection though, maybe. But coffee only gives me positive effects or rather it only causes negative effects if I overconsume it, if I drink more coffee than I have a craving/hunger for. For me iron intake is the biggest factor, the more iron the less coffee my body wants and vice versa, iron makes me intolerant to coffee, calcium, thyroid.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Would this mean that in the presence of high levels of vit D the benefits might not be seen?

yes,maybe,i posted a thread and a study contained within:

Caffeine Decreases Vitamin D Receptor Protein Expression In Vitro

 

[Gone Peating]

I also wonder about how coffee drinking interacts with the modern environment. Coffee promotes faster thinking and enhanced absorption of information which was no doubt a boon in a less complex society where thought was slower and there was less information to begin with, but how does coffee interact with the ultra-rapid information technology which gives all of us unlimited access to constant novelty and new information to take in? I'd suspect that coffee promotes more shallow thinking and less deep processing of what we learn, resulting in the kind of unreflective ADHD culture obsessed with irrelevant minutiae that we have become.

On the other hand, some of the most thought-provoking modern thinkers and artists like Peat and David Lynch are heavy coffee drinkers, but they are also old guys so their brains may not have been molded as much by modern information technology.

Tbh peat for all his pros has some borderline ocd tendencies

The marginal returns on many of his dietary stances that he would never budge from are usually pretty slim

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Sugar makes me feel kinda high, in a negative, absent-minded kind of way. I think it might be due to some kind of intestinal infeection though, maybe. But coffee only gives me positive effects or rather it only causes negative effects if I overconsume it, if I drink more coffee than I have a craving/hunger for. For me iron intake is the biggest factor, the more iron the less coffee my body wants and vice versa, iron makes me intolerant to coffee, calcium, thyroid.

Im not sure if i can handle high carbs:

The following symptoms may be associated with acute or chronic hyperglycemia, with the first three composing the classic hyperglycemic triad:

• Polyphagia – frequent hunger, especially pronounced hunger
• Polydipsia – frequent thirst, especially excessive thirst
• Polyuria – increased volume of urination (not an increased frequency, although it is a common consequence)
• Blurred vision
• Fatigue
• Restlessness
• Weight loss
• Poor wound healing (cuts, scrapes, etc.)
• Dry mouth
• Dry or itchy skin
• Tingling in feet or heels
• Erectile dysfunction
• Recurrent infections, external ear infections (swimmer's ear)
• Cardiac arrhythmia
• Stupor
• Coma
• Seizures

 

[Dino D]

@Dannywharton
whats your diet like?
bodyfat?

 

[postman]

Im not sure if i can handle high carbs:

The following symptoms may be associated with acute or chronic hyperglycemia, with the first three composing the classic hyperglycemic triad:

• Polyphagia – frequent hunger, especially pronounced hunger
• Polydipsia – frequent thirst, especially excessive thirst
• Polyuria – increased volume of urination (not an increased frequency, although it is a common consequence)
• Blurred vision
• Fatigue
• Restlessness
• Weight loss
• Poor wound healing (cuts, scrapes, etc.)
• Dry mouth
• Dry or itchy skin
• Tingling in feet or heels
• Erectile dysfunction
• Recurrent infections, external ear infections (swimmer's ear)
• Cardiac arrhythmia
• Stupor
• Coma
• Seizures

Not a carb problem in my case because starch doesn't cause any issues. The only things that gives me problems handling all carbs are fats and especially PUFAs

 

[DaveFoster]

Drink less.

 

[theLaw]

Liver health...........

 

[TheSir]

Can you define what a "psychoactive" drug is? Food itself has a stimulating effect on the brain, as do various vitamins and other compounds which are never viewed as "drugs".

Sorry, I'm not interested in entering some subjective game of semantics. Caffeine is a psychoactive drug and there is no going around this fact in my view. Foods and vitamins are necessities rather than drugs.

 

[metabolizm]

From Ray's article on caffeine:

Coffee drinkers have a lower incidence of thyroid disease, including cancer, thannon-drinkers.

Caffeine protects the liver from alcohol and acetaminophen (Tylenol) and other toxins, and coffee drinkers are less likely than people who don’t use coffee to have elevated serum enzymes and other indications of liver damage.

Caffeine protects against cancer caused by radiation, chemical carcinogens, viruses, and estrogens.

Caffeine synergizes with progesterone, and increases its concentration in blood and tissues.

Cystic breast disease is not caused by caffeine, in fact caffeine’s effects are likely to be protective; a variety of studies show that coffee, tea, and caffeine are protective against breast cancer.

Coffee provides very significant quantities of magnesium, as well as other nutrients including vitamin B1.

Caffeine “improves efficiency of fuel use” and performance: JC Wagner 1989.

Coffee drinkers have a low incidence of suicide.

Caffeine supports serotonin uptake in nerves, and inhibits blood platelet aggregation.

Coffee drinkers have been found to have lower cadmium in tissues; coffee making removes heavy metals from water.

Coffee inhibits iron absorption if taken with meals, helping to prevent iron overload.

Caffeine, like niacin, inhibits apoptosis, protecting against stress-induced cell death, without interfering with normal cell turnover.

Caffeine can prevent nerve cell death.

Coffee (or caffeine) prevents Parkinson’s Disease (Ross, et al., 2000).

The prenatal growth retardation that can be caused by feeding large amounts of caffeine is prevented by supplementing the diet with sugar.

Caffeine stops production of free radicals by inhibiting xanthine oxidase, an important factor in tissue stress.

Caffeine lowers serum potassium following exercise; stabilizes platelets, reducing thromboxane production.

 

[metabolizm]

Sorry, I'm not interested in entering some subjective game of semantics. Caffeine is a psychoactive drug and there is no going around this fact in my view. Foods and vitamins are necessities rather than drugs.

RP, for reference: Nutrition textbooks flatly describe caffeine as a drug, not a nutrient, as if it were obvious that nutrients can’t be drugs. Any of the essential nutrients, if used in isolation, can be used as a drug, for a specific effect on the organism that it wouldn’t normally have when eaten as a component of ordinary food. And natural foods contain thousands of chemicals, other than the essential nutrients. Many of these are called nonessential nutrients, but their importance is being recognized increasingly. The truth is that we aren’t sure what they “aren’t essential” for. Until we have more definite knowledge about the organism I don’t think we should categorize things so absolutely as drugs or nutrients.

 

[TheSir]

RP, for reference: Nutrition textbooks flatly describe caffeine as a drug, not a nutrient, as if it were obvious that nutrients can’t be drugs. Any of the essential nutrients, if used in isolation, can be used as a drug, for a specific effect on the organism that it wouldn’t normally have when eaten as a component of ordinary food. And natural foods contain thousands of chemicals, other than the essential nutrients. Many of these are called nonessential nutrients, but their importance is being recognized increasingly. The truth is that we aren’t sure what they “aren’t essential” for. Until we have more definite knowledge about the organism I don’t think we should categorize things so absolutely as drugs or nutrients.

As I said, it's semantics. The distinction between drugs and non-drugs only becomes ambiguous when you are trying to define the precise difference between them. Same is true for all concepts: for example, everyone can tell when something is of green color, yet no one can point out the exact point at which green becomes yellow or blue in the color spectrum. This is because concepts are fundamentally non-definite -- we only treat them as something definite and absolute. Ultimately whether one calls caffeine a drug or a nutrient is of little significance, as it is, regardless of the chosen classification, an artificial and unnecessary way of abusing the bodily processes. As such, there is no question that in the most cases caffeine is an impractical way of increasing wellbeing in the long term.

 

[Mark2020]

This isn't an attack on caffeine or white sugar, but after some recent discussion on the forum about coffee potentially being bad for people with sensitive adrenals, I decided to cut it out for a while because I have a history of high cortisol. The sugar has been ditched naturally by losing the coffee.

Luckily, I'd already started cutting it out because I was worried about the colour of my teeth lol.

The first week, my energy was up and down. Certain times of day, I really felt like I needed a coffee or else I'd have to lie down and have a nap. Emotionally felt a little up and down too.

But after a week, I really started to level out. Sustained energy, pleasant mood, and my habit for overthinking and analysing has gone. I can let thoughts or feelings go immediately, even if I encounter something stressful. This has always been a big problem for me, and I don't think I've ever managed to calm my brain as much as it is now. I've also got a lot of motivation to tick off routine tasks like the dishes, bits of gardening that need doing etc. And I also have a lot of motivation to work out. And my appetite is much, much bigger.

I'm aware of getting enough calories and nutrients when drinking caffeine, but my diet is very nutritious and I have been getting 3K+ cals for a while. For the first time, I feel like I'm getting the benefits of that.

Again, I'm not trying to attach too much meaning to this. But for me personally, so far the experience of dropping coffee and sugar has been very positive. I'll try to report back if anything changes.

Ahhhh, the great coffee debate. I've been going back and forth with this for the better part of a decade. :)

Here's my two cents: I feel better with coffee, but a SMALL amount. I use a 50/50 blend of organic caff/decaf coffee. I drink one cup in the morning. I find that one cup boosts my mood and gives me mental clarity, without taxing and burning out my adrenals (which DOES 100% happen if I go too crazy with coffee). I've been Peat-ing for many years now (7 years). I honestly don't know how Ray Peat drinks all the coffee he does. Maybe you need to be on thyroid meds to be able to handle it. I don't take thyroid meds. And I can't handle more than 1 cup a day, without it WRECKING my nervous system.

I'd say if you aren't on thyroid meds, there's a very good chance avoiding coffee might end up being a good move. It's not going to agree with everyone.

Everyone definitely needs to self-experiment. Coffee definitely has benefits, but if it's wreaking havoc on your nervous system, then get rid of it. Just do the things we all know works.... lots of fruit, an excellent calcium to phosphorus ratio, avoiding PUFA, managing stress, and enjoying life. :)

 

[danishispsychic]

I have quit coffee several times and have come to the conclusion that my problem with it was not enough cream or sugar and I was not making it strong enough. Now it is one huge cup in the am ( french press rocket fuel ) and one after my last meal of the day around 4pm. Never ever quitting it again.