Big disappointment that Dr. Peat didn’t live longer — I wish I didn’t feel this way

[member11823]

Every single scientologist has the same fate. That's the way God reminds that we need him, he doesn't need us.
God determines how many days every person will live.
As Slava Sevryukova said: The difference is that you either walk or you get dragged.
It doesn't matter what do you drink, what do you eat, you won't live even a second longer.

 

[Dave Clark]

Every single scientologist has the same fate. That's the way God reminds that we need him, he doesn't need us.
God determines how many days every person will live.
As Slava Sevryukova said: The difference is that you either walk or you get dragged.
It doesn't matter what do you drink, what do you eat, you won't live even a second longer.

It does matter, you may live a second shorter.

 

[TruffleGnocchi]

Every single scientologist has the same fate. That's the way God reminds that we need him, he doesn't need us.
God determines how many days every person will live.
As Slava Sevryukova said: The difference is that you either walk or you get dragged.
It doesn't matter what do you drink, what do you eat, you won't live even a second longer.

Scientologist? Wasnt Ray some kind of Marxist socialist?

 

[Greyfox]

I

Thank you for being vulnerable and courageous in coming out here and expressing this as many have been asking the same question.

When I shared with my mother what had happened (and she is not really part of the tribe but knows how much I adore and love Dr. Peat and the fixture he has been in my life for the last 25 years or so), she said - well perhaps he prolonged his life by many years and would have died much sooner had he not applied this health wisdom. Even though we do not subscribe to genetic determinism, there are constitutional/transgenerational epigenetic factors and lifetime damages and stressors some experience that others do not. I have seen mention here that Dr. Peat may have sustained lung damage due to radiation from childhood? and he has shared many of his health challenges he endured in childhood and young adulthood- so perhaps he had vulnerabilities that, had he not gleaned this incredible wisdom about health and preservation , he would have been compromised and died sooner. He has always also been extremely physically sensitive- i can certainly relate- and the smallest infraction could really effect him.

I can get behind this idea. Being sick has led me to learn an insane amount about physiology that I would have taken for granted if I was in perfect health all my life. All my friends suffer with some problem or other but nothing that would cause them to seek out answers with quiet desperation. It's the polarity of experience that teaches that Ray's outlook is valid and testable. For example, you can test the idea of endotoxin by taking a carrot salad and seeing how you feel after. As someone who has had digestive issues I am likely to notice a bigger improvement in symptoms than someone who already has good digestion.
Also, there's the idea of structural damage. When functional problems lead to structural ones, then it becomes more difficult to completely recover. I think ray has been battling some problems his whole life. And if he hadn't, we would not have benefitted from his work. Suffering is a precursor to being a true healer.

 

[Peatful]

And if he hadn't, we would not have benefitted from his work. Suffering is a precursor to being a true healer.

I can’t agree with this more.
Profound observation.
And well said.








This would be a great thread topic
The gift of suffering….

 

[steel_reserve]

I can get behind this idea. Being sick has led me to learn an insane amount about physiology that I would have taken for granted if I was in perfect health all my life. All my friends suffer with some problem or other but nothing that would cause them to seek out answers with quiet desperation.

Same. People will tell me "You should have been a doctor."

I didn't want all this knowledge. I just want to be healthy.

The hard part is that health is no different than any other aspect of life. No one will listen to you until you are living proof of what you say.

 

[Hermes]

.

 

[Apple]

I can get behind this idea. Being sick has led me to learn an insane amount about physiology that I would have taken for granted if I was in perfect health all my life. All my friends suffer with some problem or other but nothing that would cause them to seek out answers with quiet desperation. It's the polarity of experience that teaches that Ray's outlook is valid and testable. For example, you can test the idea of endotoxin by taking a carrot salad and seeing how you feel after. As someone who has had digestive issues I am likely to notice a bigger improvement in symptoms than someone who already has good digestion.
Also, there's the idea of structural damage. When functional problems lead to structural ones, then it becomes more difficult to completely recover. I think ray has been battling some problems his whole life. And if he hadn't, we would not have benefitted from his work. Suffering is a precursor to being a true healer.

why everybody thinks Ray has been battling something? He looked like a strong dude. Age took its tall on him , he wasn't immortal after all...Broda Barnes wasn't either.
Almost zero of PUFA, gallon of milk daily , no starches for 30 years, hormonal supplementing, quart of orange juice, oysters/liver weekly, never vaccinated ... yep , he was still mortal like anyone else.
What else can be done ?

 

[OJ and Salt]

That kind of degradation is really not honoring the kindness and non judgment of Dr. Peat. You of course have the full prerogative to disagree with the contention of another; but cutting someone down like this simply for their own observations and opinions is really not warranted in my opinion.

And, I can assure you as an attorney who has been immersed in this monstrosity for 2 years now along with some of the foremost experts and scientists on this planet, including Dr., Peat himself, the shedding is real and we have documented evidence of it causing deaths; so you should not be so quick to dismiss the contention. Prove it is wrong as you would be required to in a court of law. Give evidence that refutes it and that can be respected.

Dr. Peat has helped so many people. I am thankful I found this forum.

 

[TruffleGnocchi]

Seems some people just dont want to accept the truth, dont want to change their mind and feel that uncertainty: Ray Peat did not live a long time, considering that according to him and many of his fans/followers he had most of the answers about the reasons for aging and health in general. I think more according to his followers than RP himself. Though he also says a lot of things with confidence as fact.
"But average american lives only 77, so that mean his diet works". 86 is nothing impressive for most of the 1st world countries, and these are the averages (highest and lowest living combined, meaning people who die from disease at a very young age included) if the info is correct: List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia
Majority of people achieve this life expectancy while eating tons of PUFA, drinking alcohol, never took any kind of hormones or vitamins, a lot of them are diabetic, live a high stress life, gluten, carotenes, estrogenic foods, live in polluted cities,...

The details really matter to attempt to come to a conclusion about why Ray Peat died. Everything else is just speculation. Maybe he did something stupid accidentally, maybe he got killed, maybe he was wrong and his diet didnt work, maybe it didnt work and was the cause. Maybe if it weren't for his diet he would die at 65. Who knows. The details matter.
And if the diet didn't work, and he was wrong about something, or all of it. Then you would want to know, in order to not delude yourself and other people you may influence. Especially to base your life decisions and the lives that depend on you, based on known falsehoods. Some people seem to be very emotionally invested in his ideas, some also clearly reputationally and financially invested as well, have built their whole persona around it. There is no benefit to this, other than the immediate comfort of not having doubt, and for those financially invested, their money. Drawbacks of delusion are catastrophic.

I think we should be focused more on his ideas and test it against and integrate it with other ideas, other science. If they are true they will stand any questioning. Instead of speculating of the cause of death, if not more information is obtained about his death and state of health prior to his death.
I dont think his death discredits all of his ideas automatically, but lets not pretend 86 is impressive for the amount of insights he is claimed to have about biology.

When listening to his talks, I found him humble at times, cautious to present his words as his ideas not as fact when there isnt evidence, at times displaying confidence in ideas presenting them as fact without me seeing any good reason for it.

 

[Liam311]

Seems some people just dont want to accept the truth, dont want to change their mind and feel that uncertainty: Ray Peat did not live a long time, considering that according to him and many of his fans/followers he had most of the answers about the reasons for aging and health in general. I think more according to his followers than RP himself. Though he also says a lot of things with confidence as fact.
"But average american lives only 77, so that mean his diet works". 86 is nothing impressive for most of the 1st world countries, and these are the averages (highest and lowest living combined, meaning people who die from disease at a very young age included) if the info is correct: List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia
Majority of people achieve this life expectancy while eating tons of PUFA, drinking alcohol, never took any kind of hormones or vitamins, a lot of them are diabetic, live a high stress life, gluten, carotenes, estrogenic foods, live in polluted cities,...

The details really matter to attempt to come to a conclusion about why Ray Peat died. Everything else is just speculation. Maybe he did something stupid accidentally, maybe he got killed, maybe he was wrong and his diet didnt work, maybe it didnt work and was the cause. Maybe if it weren't for his diet he would die at 65. Who knows. The details matter.
And if the diet didn't work, and he was wrong about something, or all of it. Then you would want to know, in order to not delude yourself and other people you may influence. Especially to base your life decisions and the lives that depend on you, based on known falsehoods. Some people seem to be very emotionally invested in his ideas, some also clearly reputationally and financially invested as well, have built their whole persona around it. There is no benefit to this, other than the immediate comfort of not having doubt, and for those financially invested, their money. Drawbacks of delusion are catastrophic.

I think we should be focused more on his ideas and test it against and integrate it with other ideas, other science. If they are true they will stand any questioning. Instead of speculating of the cause of death, if not more information is obtained about his death and state of health prior to his death.
I dont think his death discredits all of his ideas automatically, but lets not pretend 86 is impressive for the amount of insights he is claimed to have about biology.

When listening to his talks, I found him humble at times, cautious to present his words as his ideas not as fact when there isnt evidence, at times displaying confidence in ideas presenting them as fact without me seeing any good reason for it.

Maybe it was just his time, following many great men who pass over in their 80's after a life of giving.

 

[Peatful]

Facts from the immediate family:
Peat was healthy when he died.
The stroke was the only malady.

Source:
Georgi’s conversation with said family member.

Speculation:
A hx of migraines correlates with a propensity of CVA.

Migraine and risk of stroke | Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery & Psychiatry

@TruffleGnocchi

If I believed what you believed (as you state above); I wouldn’t be on this forum.

I don’t appreciate your stance.
Reads disrespectful

To state them on the very forum that memorializes Dr Peat (not just his work; but the person of Ray) is tasteless to me

 

[ThinPicking]

Seems some people just dont want to accept the truth, dont want to change their mind and feel that uncertainty: Ray Peat did not live a long time, considering that according to him and many of his fans/followers he had most of the answers about the reasons for aging and health in general. I think more according to his followers than RP himself. Though he also says a lot of things with confidence as fact.

Maybe you're missing the point.

 

[Hermes]

I can understand the feeling people have: If you actually follow a pretty narrow diet and lifestyle like Ray Peat, you might feel entitled to superior health, superior results, like a super-long life. I understand that. But life is more than what you do, and just because you invest extra hard in a healthy lifestyle doesn't make you immune to disease and ultimately death, which happens to everyone, it's the great unifier. It's like saying I work really hard, why don't I have this great career? Obviously there is more to both life and career than hard work. Luck. Good health to start with. Better starting conditions. Healthy parents and grandparents. Location matters. There is much more to a long life than the supposedly perfect diet. It's hard to accept that there are many influences beyond our control.

So, taking all that into account, I think Ray Peat lived a long life, and this is where averages really do matter, to come to a conclusion like that, we obviously need something to compare that number to, to say it's a long life or a short life. And something that's easy to overlook is that Ray Peat functioned really well, I mean, his memory and verbal skills were absolutely outstanding, even compared to PhD students sixty years younger. He retained a high level of cognitive function right up to the end, at least that's my impression.

He was a true polymath, gifted in science and the arts. He never boasted about his talents, but always remained modest. That's a damn impressive life, if you ask me, especially in a world like today, where everyone is screaming and shouting at you about how great they are.

He left a legacy that will be remembered for a long time to come. There is absolutely nothing average about his life. And 86 is a beautiful number. The highest single-digit even number followed by the next lower even number. Beautiful.

 

[Dolomite]

I can understand the feeling people have: If you actually follow a pretty narrow diet and lifestyle like Ray Peat, you might feel entitled to superior health, superior results, like a super-long life. I understand that. But life is more than what you do, and just because you invest extra hard in a healthy lifestyle doesn't make you immune to disease and ultimately death, which happens to everyone, it's the great unifier. It's like saying I work really hard, why don't I have this great career? Obviously there is more to both life and career than hard work. Luck. Good health to start with. Better starting conditions. Healthy parents and grandparents. Location matters. There is much more to a long life than the supposedly perfect diet. It's hard to accept that there are many influences beyond our control.

So, taking all that into account, I think Ray Peat lived a long life, and this is where averages really do matter, to come to a conclusion like that, we obviously need something to compare that number to, to say it's a long life or a short life. And something that's easy to overlook is that Ray Peat functioned really well, I mean, his memory and verbal skills were absolutely outstanding, even compared to PhD students sixty years younger. He retained a high level of cognitive function right up to the end, at least that's my impression.

He was a true polymath, gifted in science and the arts. He never boasted about his talents, but always remained modest. That's a damn impressive life, if you ask me, especially in a world like today, where everyone is screaming and shouting at you about how great they are.

He left a legacy that will be remembered for a long time to come. There is absolutely nothing average about his life. And 86 is a beautiful number. The highest single-digit even number followed by the next lower even number. Beautiful.

I like that "86 is a beautiful number". Thank you for pointing this out. My father died at 88, which is also a beautiful number.

 

[TruffleGnocchi]

Maybe you're missing the point.
What do you mean? What is the point? @ThinPicking

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Thanks @Peatful for the information

Facts from the immediate family:
Peat was healthy when he died.
The stroke was the only malady.

If I believed what you believed (as you state above); I wouldn’t be on this forum.

Believed what?
This?

When listening to his talks, I found him humble at times, cautious to present his words as his ideas not as fact when there isnt evidence, at times displaying confidence in ideas presenting them as fact without me seeing any good reason for it.

I don’t appreciate your stance.
Reads disrespectful

To state them on the very forum that memorializes Dr Peat (not just his work; but the person of Ray) is tasteless to me

I can see how my post can come across as disrespectful towards the people on this forum. Not sure how it is disrespectful towards Ray Peat.

In any case I stand by what I said. Delusion, or belief in something that is not true, is very harmful. Acting in a way that increases the chance of this is not something anyone should aim for, and increases the chance of a bad or catastrophic outcome.
Part of my post was an attempt at reducing this. Maybe I could have worded it differently and maintained this.
Being against questioning, healthy debate, attempting to create an echo chamber, is also this.
Truth is important. If it is true, it will stand any debate.

I imagine If Ray Peat was alive and I questioned him with anything I said, on the phone on a live broadcast, I dont think he would feel insulted or upset in any way and would just respond with his thinking. I dont know.

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@Hermes

I can understand the feeling people have: If you actually follow a pretty narrow diet and lifestyle like Ray Peat, you might feel entitled to superior health, superior results, like a super-long life. I understand that. But life is more than what you do, and just because you invest extra hard in a healthy lifestyle doesn't make you immune to disease and ultimately death, which happens to everyone, it's the great unifier. It's like saying I work really hard, why don't I have this great career? Obviously there is more to both life and career than hard work. Luck. Good health to start with. Better starting conditions. Healthy parents and grandparents. Location matters. There is much more to a long life than the supposedly perfect diet. It's hard to accept that there are many influences beyond our control.

I agree there are many factors to consider. I think it is more the thinking that if he understood the reasons/mechanisms for disease and many solutions, surely he could have fixed at least some of the problems and therefore achieved a longer lifespan than most people that don't have any knowledge at all. And the the general theme is that genetics do not predetermine health, that many things can be fixed by proper nutrition and similar interventions. Providing the body what it needs, maintaining energy or energetical capacity. And that lack of this is a big part of the cause for disease and aging. As you said there are many factors to consider.

 

[Peatful]

@TruffleGnocchi

If none of my business
I understand

Q: Did you ever interact with Peat personally?

 

[peter88]

Peat was healthy when he died.

I’m not really well versed on this but don’t you die when your organs fail? How would that happen to a healthy person?

 

[TruffleGnocchi]

@TruffleGnocchi

If none of my business
I understand

Q: Did you ever interact with Peat personally?

No I never did.
About a year or some months ago I was trying to find his email to ask him something but I didn't find it

 

[Peatful]

No I never did.
About a year or some months ago I was trying to find his email to ask him something but I didn't find it

Thx for your response.

He was such a brilliant mind
Balanced with goodness

A beautiful human in every way to me….