Can Sleep Position Affect Your Health ?

[DMF]

I fall asleep on my left side, legs slightly bent - but when I wake, I'm all bent, twisted. contorted sometimes all up in a knot, especially when I'm stressed.
I wish, however, to fall and maintain sleep flat on my back legs stretched wide. It seems the healthiest, especially for overall circulation.
It sounds crazy, but If I can sometimes maintain the flat-on-my-back atleast for awhile, it feels as thought overall circulation is flowing, and get this: It's like connective tissues are forming or some overall healing that wants to happen - but gets stopped short because I can't "maintain" being flat.
Could someone explain this - and perhaps show me how I could stay flat?

 

[BearWithMe]

Sleeping flat on your back will cause you to hyperventilate, lowering your CO2.

The healthiest sleeping position is on your side, on a hard surface.

When your health is good, your circulation would be good either way.

You can't have a good health when hyperventilating.

 

[itchaboyagain]

Sleeping flat on your back will cause you to hyperventilate, lowering your CO2.

The healthiest sleeping position is on your side, on a hard surface.

When your health is good, your circulation would be good either way.

You can't have a good health when hyperventilating.

View attachment 20673

Could you expand on hyperventilation bit? Possibly with some evidence or proof to back up the claim? I've tracked my respiratory rate and it wasn't any different between side and back.

I would think nose vs mouth breathing would play a much larger role in regards to over breathing.

I once shared your belief of sleeping on your side on a hard surface being optimal. I spent 6+ months doing it. Always had issues with limbs falling asleep and lots of tossing and turning to avoid overcompression when compared to a bed and elevated back sleeping.

I now get very good sleep in a supine zero gravity position on a medium firmness latex mattress. Definitely better than my firm side sleeping days.

 

[BearWithMe]

Could you expand on hyperventilation bit? Possibly with some evidence or proof to back up the claim? I've tracked my respiratory rate and it wasn't any different between side and back.

I would think nose vs mouth breathing would play a much larger role in regards to over breathing.

I once shared your belief of sleeping on your side on a hard surface being optimal. I spent 6+ months doing it. Always had issues with limbs falling asleep and lots of tossing and turning to avoid overcompression when compared to a bed and elevated back sleeping.

I now get very good sleep in a supine zero gravity position on a medium firmness latex mattress. Definitely better than my firm side sleeping days.

It is not so much about the respiratory rate, it is more about the breathing depth.

Much better experiment would be to measure your oxygen saturation after the night sleeping on your back vs on the side. For me, the difference was significant. And also the difference in how much sleep I need, and how rested I feel.

Are you familiar with work of Dr. Buteyko?

 

[Dave Clark]

I'm no sleep expert, but I have always read that sleeping on your side puts your spine in a bad position, and that sleeping on your back is best. Many people today have spine/back issues, so finding the right position for the spine is important, especially since many health problems originate from the spine.

 

[BearWithMe]

I'm no sleep expert, but I have always read that sleeping on your side puts your spine in a bad position, and that sleeping on your back is best. Many people today have spine/back issues, so finding the right position for the spine is important, especially since many health problems originate from the spine.

I have always read that you should eat plenty of omega-3 and sugar is toxic.

People have back issues because they are sitting in front of computers all day, usually on horrible chairs, barely moving at all, doing no exercise, they are eating garbage, being poisoned left and right and their overall health is a mess. Not because they are sleeping on their sides.

Sleeping on the back might mask some symptoms of the above short term, but in the long term, it will cause further deterioration.

 

[Dave Clark]

I have always read that you should eat plenty of omega-3 and sugar is toxic.

People have back issues because they are sitting in front of computers all day, usually on horrible chairs, barely moving at all, doing no exercise, they are eating garbage, being poisoned left and right and their overall health is a mess. Not because they are sleeping on their sides.

Sleeping on the back might mask some symptoms of the above short term, but in the long term, it will cause further deterioration.

Okay. But first, people, myself included, have had back problems long before computers, and the advent of sit-down technology, so that is painting with a broad brush. Second, not everything you read is false, show me the evidence that sleeping on your back causes deterioration. Most disc degeneration and other back problems are caused by metabolic problems, the very stuff we learn about from Dr. Peat. Cellular and mitochondrial dysfunction causes the spine to degenerate and deconform, other mechanics and muscular imbalances just add to the problem, not cause it.

 

[boris]

Instinctive sleeping and resting postures: an anthropological and zoological approach to treatment of low back and joint pain

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[YourUniverse]

Personally I sleep my best on my stomach, my head resting on my arm with no pillow. I cannot relax my breathing apparati and continue to breathe when sleeping on my back, and I think my bed is too soft (latex foam topper) to sleep on my side

 

[StephanF]

Does this also occur, waking up with a twisted body, when you sleep at a hotel or other place away from home? I posted before on the topic of 'earth energies' that can affect one's sleep. For example, when my son was a small child and we visited my mom in Germany and stayed in her guest bedroom, in the morning when I woke up, his body was turned by 90 degrees, every night and each time we visited my mom. He didn't do that when staying at a hotel or in his bed at home. Read more on an older post of mine:

I Want To Sleep

Hey :) I need your help/advice I sleep like 5 to 6 hours with the aid of melatonin I take 10 to 20 mg of it every night from 6 months Then I read here it's unhealthy And it shrink our sexual things And I noticed that on my self lately But without it I can sleep good But I will stop...

raypeatforum.com

 

[itchaboyagain]

It is not so much about the respiratory rate, it is more about the breathing depth.

Much better experiment would be to measure your oxygen saturation after the night sleeping on your back vs on the side. For me, the difference was significant. And also the difference in how much sleep I need, and how rested I feel.

Are you familiar with work of Dr. Buteyko?

I am familiar with Buteyko's stance, however I have never seen any evidence cited to back up their claims of lateral superiority, if you happen to have any I would love to see it.

I've spent many many months researching sleep positions, and have tried them all personally, on various firmness's, so I would be very interested in any data, research, or studies you may be in possession of to back up the claims that back sleeping negatively affects breathing depth. At this point it's is only your word against mine, and that isn't likely going to convince anyone of anything. I'm very open to

I've also tracked my SpO2 as well and have never seen a correlation with sleep position, I have seen it change in relation to nasal vs. mouth breathing however.

I personally think lateral sleeping has many potential issues that supine sleeping does not have:
- It's far more likely you will lose circulation to your hands and arms at some point throughout the night.
- Carpal tunnel syndrome is strongly associated with the lateral sleep position. Quite a few separate studies have come to this conclusion, this is just one example.
- Pressure on the side of the body is bound to trigger movement during sleep, interrupting sleep more often than supine or even prone for most.

In general, it's probably a pretty personal thing, as even the few comments on this thread have shown, if the position you choose seems to get you refreshing and restful sleep, go for it.

However, in regards to your beliefs that the supine position is inferior to the lateral position, I simply ask for some kind of evidence of that. As I would love to see it and it would make for a better conversation.

 

[YourUniverse]

It is not so much about the respiratory rate, it is more about the breathing depth.

Much better experiment would be to measure your oxygen saturation after the night sleeping on your back vs on the side. For me, the difference was significant. And also the difference in how much sleep I need, and how rested I feel.

Are you familiar with work of Dr. Buteyko?

How do you measure oxygen saturation?

 

[itchaboyagain]

How do you measure oxygen saturation?

Any device with a pulse oximeter component will work, though some are more sensitive than others and measurements per minute can vary.

Here's a cheap option with tracking.

 

[charlie]

I am familiar with Buteyko's stance, however I have never seen any evidence cited to back up their claims of lateral superiority, if you happen to have any I would love to see it.

I've spent many many months researching sleep positions, and have tried them all personally, on various firmness's, so I would be very interested in any data, research, or studies you may be in possession of to back up the claims that back sleeping negatively affects breathing depth. At this point it's is only your word against mine, and that isn't likely going to convince anyone of anything. I'm very open to

I've also tracked my SpO2 as well and have never seen a correlation with sleep position, I have seen it change in relation to nasal vs. mouth breathing however.

I personally think lateral sleeping has many potential issues that supine sleeping does not have:
- It's far more likely you will lose circulation to your hands and arms at some point throughout the night.
- Carpal tunnel syndrome is strongly associated with the lateral sleep position. Quite a few separate studies have come to this conclusion, this is just one example.
- Pressure on the side of the body is bound to trigger movement during sleep, interrupting sleep more often than supine or even prone for most.

In general, it's probably a pretty personal thing, as even the few comments on this thread have shown, if the position you choose seems to get you refreshing and restful sleep, go for it.

However, in regards to your beliefs that the supine position is inferior to the lateral position, I simply ask for some kind of evidence of that. As I would love to see it and it would make for a better conversation.

Great post, thank you!

 

[BearWithMe]

I am familiar with Buteyko's stance, however I have never seen any evidence cited to back up their claims of lateral superiority, if you happen to have any I would love to see it.

I've spent many many months researching sleep positions, and have tried them all personally, on various firmness's, so I would be very interested in any data, research, or studies you may be in possession of to back up the claims that back sleeping negatively affects breathing depth. At this point it's is only your word against mine, and that isn't likely going to convince anyone of anything. I'm very open to

I've also tracked my SpO2 as well and have never seen a correlation with sleep position, I have seen it change in relation to nasal vs. mouth breathing however.

I personally think lateral sleeping has many potential issues that supine sleeping does not have:
- It's far more likely you will lose circulation to your hands and arms at some point throughout the night.
- Carpal tunnel syndrome is strongly associated with the lateral sleep position. Quite a few separate studies have come to this conclusion, this is just one example.
- Pressure on the side of the body is bound to trigger movement during sleep, interrupting sleep more often than supine or even prone for most.

In general, it's probably a pretty personal thing, as even the few comments on this thread have shown, if the position you choose seems to get you refreshing and restful sleep, go for it.

However, in regards to your beliefs that the supine position is inferior to the lateral position, I simply ask for some kind of evidence of that. As I would love to see it and it would make for a better conversation.

A couple of points about Buteyko:
1) All the modern Buteyko teachers are abusing Buteyko's name to push things that are sometimes in direct contradiction with Constantin Buteyko's teachings. There are literally no Buteyko teachers that are 100% in line with Constantin Buteyko's teachings.
2) Dr. Buteyko was not recommending sleeping on your side either, he prefered sleeping on the stomach.
3) Everything Buteyko taught was backed by proper studies, they are (sadly, but understandably) in Russian.

A couple of points in general:
1) Boris posted very good evidence of lateral superiority right above your post. That was the study that first got me into sleeping on the side.
2) If your health is good you won't lose circulation no matter the sleeping position.
3) If your health is good you won't get carpal tunel syndrome no matter the sleeping position.
4) Which brings me back to the point I already made in this thread, sleeping on the back is a short term band-aid fix for poor health.
5) For me and many other members, pressure on the side of the body does not trigger movement during sleep. I have this confirmed by Withings Sleep tracking mat.
6) You will find lirerally tons of direct evidence of back sleeping causing hyperventilation in sleep apnea studies and Cheyne Stokes respiration studies.

Lateral position attenuates severity of CSA-CSR. This effect is independent of postural effects on the upper airway and is likely to be due to changes in pulmonary oxygen stores.

Lateral sleeping position reduces severity of central sleep apnea / Cheyne-Stokes respiration - PubMed

Lateral position attenuates severity of CSA-CSR. This effect is independent of postural effects on the upper airway and is likely to be due to changes in pulmonary oxygen stores. Further studies are required to investigate mechanisms involved.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This may be due to increased wedge pressure and pulmonary congestion in the supine position causing a relative hyperventilation (via stimulation of J-receptors) thus negating the normal increase in PaCO2 with sleep onset

Pathophysiology of central sleep apneas - Sleep and Breathing

The transition from wake to sleep is accompanied by a host of physiologic changes, which result in major alterations in respiratory control and may result in sleep-related breathing disorders. The central sleep apneas are a group of sleep-related breathing disorders that are characterized by...

link.springer.com

Cheyne-Stokes respiration and supine dependency

The influence of position during sleep on central apnoeas during Cheyne-Stokes respiration has not previously been studied systematically. The current authors aimed to study the effect of body position and sleep stages on central sleep apnoeas during Cheyne-Stokes respiration. A total of 20...

erj.ersjournals.com

Role of hyperventilation in the pathogenesis of central sleep apneas in patients with congestive heart failure - PubMed

Periodic breathing with central apneas during sleep is typically triggered by hypocapnia resulting from hyperventilation. We therefore hypothesized that hypocapnia would be an important determinant of Cheyne-Stokes respiration with central sleep apnea (CSR-CSA) in patients with congestive heart...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[itchaboyagain]

A couple of points about Buteyko:
1) All the modern Buteyko teachers are abusing Buteyko's name to push things that are sometimes in direct contradiction with Constantin Buteyko's teachings. There are literally no Buteyko teachers that are 100% in line with Constantin Buteyko's teachings.
2) Dr. Buteyko was not recommending sleeping on your side either, he prefered sleeping on the stomach.
3) Everything Buteyko taught was backed by proper studies, they are (sadly, but understandably) in Russian.

A couple of points in general:
1) Boris posted very good evidence of lateral superiority right above your post. That was the study that first got me into sleeping on the side.
2) If your health is good you won't lose circulation no matter the sleeping position.
3) If your health is good you won't get carpal tunel syndrome no matter the sleeping position.
4) Which brings me back to the point I already made in this thread, sleeping on the back is a short term band-aid fix for poor health.
5) For me and many other members, pressure on the side of the body does not trigger movement during sleep. I have this confirmed by Withings Sleep tracking mat.
6) You will find lirerally tons of direct evidence of back sleeping causing hyperventilation in sleep apnea studies and Cheyne Stokes respiration studies.

Lateral sleeping position reduces severity of central sleep apnea / Cheyne-Stokes respiration - PubMed

Lateral position attenuates severity of CSA-CSR. This effect is independent of postural effects on the upper airway and is likely to be due to changes in pulmonary oxygen stores. Further studies are required to investigate mechanisms involved.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Pathophysiology of central sleep apneas - Sleep and Breathing

The transition from wake to sleep is accompanied by a host of physiologic changes, which result in major alterations in respiratory control and may result in sleep-related breathing disorders. The central sleep apneas are a group of sleep-related breathing disorders that are characterized by...

link.springer.com

Cheyne-Stokes respiration and supine dependency

The influence of position during sleep on central apnoeas during Cheyne-Stokes respiration has not previously been studied systematically. The current authors aimed to study the effect of body position and sleep stages on central sleep apnoeas during Cheyne-Stokes respiration. A total of 20...

erj.ersjournals.com

Role of hyperventilation in the pathogenesis of central sleep apneas in patients with congestive heart failure - PubMed

Periodic breathing with central apneas during sleep is typically triggered by hypocapnia resulting from hyperventilation. We therefore hypothesized that hypocapnia would be an important determinant of Cheyne-Stokes respiration with central sleep apnea (CSR-CSA) in patients with congestive heart...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I see I see, I was under the impression that lateral was the "best" position under the Buteyko teachings.

To your 3rd point, do you read Russian or have copies in English to share? It's unfortunate that we cannot share actual science in relation to your Buteyko claims.

Rebuttals to your "general points":
1. This is also the study that got me into firm surface side sleeping. However, this link does not discuss lateral sleeping in relation to supine sleeping, nor the superiority of lateral sleeping in relation to supine sleeping. What is discussed is that in nature we find natural positions to support the spine. Michael gives an example of Tibetan caravaneers sleeping on their shins, and while this clearly works for them, we aren't debating the superiority of this position are we?
2. Claims like this need to be accompanied with some sort of scientific backing, do you have that?
3. Again, these sweeping cvlaims seem like a bit of a convenient stretch, this is not a scientific claim, this is an opinion.
4. Not sure I have a rebuttal this one as the claim here is rather unspecific.
5. That's good to know, it would seem different people react differently to different stimuli.

Let's talk about sleep apnea. Firstly, Association does not equal causation. Back sleeping does not cause sleep apnea, evidenced by the fact that millions of people sleep on their backs without any apnea issues, myself included, though to your point, many do without knowing it.

The difference likely lies in health, weight, inflammation, etc. If you are overweight and unhealthy, the chances that you mouth breathe are quite high, your tonsels may be inflamed narrowing your throat, and so the moment your roll onto your back you start to snore and block your airway.

This of course gives the supine position a bad rap. Unfortunately, none of these studies mention mouth vs. nasal breathing, which I think is still the main factor here.

The thinking here is again, a bit biased and flawed. The Cheyne-Stokes study and image referenced are from patients with heart disease and diagnosed OSA, this is not a healthy population, and study results from an unhealthy population cannot be extrapolated onto a healthy population absent of similar diagnoses.

Yes, if we take people with OSA and place them in a supine position, they will experience worsened OSA, however these are clearly unhealthy individuals and their reactions to things are not going to be relatable to a healthier population. Your rebuttal to this would obviously be that "healthy people will not experience OSA regardless of the sleep position" see what I did there? XD Just playin though.

Let's take a look at the relation ship between nasal/mouth breathing and OSA, as this paints a very obvious story.

Relationship between oral breathing and nasal obstruction in patients with obstructive sleep apnea​

- "...the switching point from nasal to oro-nasal breathing in patients with complaints of snoring or sleep apnea was statistically higher than that in normal subjects."
- "These results suggest that patients with complaints of snoring or sleep apnea can easily breathe through the mouth during sleep, and that chronic nasal obstruction may induce obstructive sleep apnea."

Effect of nasal or oral breathing route on upper airway resistance during sleep​

- "In addition, obstructive (but not central) apnoeas and hypopnoeas were profoundly more frequent when breathing orally (apnoea-hypopnoea index 43+/-6) than nasally (1.5+/-0.5)"
- "Upper airway resistance during sleep and the propensity to obstructive sleep apnoea are significantly lower while breathing nasally rather than orally."

Nasal obstruction as a risk factor for sleep-disordered breathing. The University of Wisconsin Sleep and Respiratory Research Group​

- "Experimentally produced nasal obstruction increases resistance and leads to sleep-disordered breathing events, including apnea, hypopnea, and snoring."
- "Participants who often or almost always experienced nighttime symptoms of rhinitis (5 or more nights a month) were significantly (p < 0.0001) more likely to report habitual snoring (3 to 7 nights a week), chronic excessive daytime sleepiness, or chronic nonrestorative sleep than were those who rarely or never had symptoms."

For a healthy individual, someone who's not overweight, metabolically or immunologically compromised (i.e. allergies, rhinitis, sinusitis, etc), sleep position likely has very little to do with their breathing, though I'm not familiar with a study that actually looks at this.

In closing, show me a study with healthy individuals without diagnosed OSA, heart dieease, etc. breathing through their noses, on their backs with and without an elevation of the head and/or torso, with disordered breathing, and I will change my mind.

 

[pauljacob]

When you're in deep sleep you're as good as dead as far as having control over body postures. Every night I hit the bed on my back, but when I wake up I'm on my left side. I often wake up around 2 a.m. to empty my bladder, and when I return to bed I'm unable to sleep on my back. My body resists it, so I turn left. When I awake in the morning I'm partly on my back and partly on my left shoulder. However, when I sleep on an air-filled lounge chair, I get the most restful and peaceful sleep, even though I still have to get up to relieve myself. I avoid the lounge chair because I personally think that maybe my brain is not getting enough blood while asleep in practically seated position. I'd appreciate some input on sleeping in a seated position. TIA.

 

[itchaboyagain]

When you're in deep sleep you're as good as dead as far as having control over body postures. Every night I hit the bed on my back, but when I wake up I'm on my left side. I often wake up around 2 a.m. to empty my bladder, and when I return to bed I'm unable to sleep on my back. My body resists it, so I turn left. When I awake in the morning I'm partly on my back and partly on my left shoulder. However, when I sleep on an air-filled lounge chair, I get the most restful and peaceful sleep, even though I still have to get up to relieve myself. I avoid the lounge chair because I personally think that maybe my brain is not getting enough blood while asleep in practically seated position. I'd appreciate some input on sleeping in a seated position. TIA.

Couple of thoughts.

1. The sleep position your body assumes unconsciously is likely the one you're used to falling asleep in. Muscle memory has a lot to do with this, and changing your "preferred" sleep position is difficult because it requires you to lay in an unfamiliar and non-preferred position until you fall asleep (or when you wake up at night), over and over, until that position becomes the new normal or preferred.

However, it's not always that cut and dry either, while I can fall asleep on my back just fine now, I also sometimes like a slightly lateral position to fall asleep in, and sometimes not. Again though, for a healthy individual, I think breathing style is probably more important than position.

2. It's possible you're overhydrating if you're waking up every night to urinate. Have you read Matt Stone's Eat for Heat? I'd check that out if you haven't.

3. Subjective sleep analysis beats every other metric in my opinion. If you're waking up fully rested, refreshed, and feel good all day long, you're getting good sleep, period. I suppose it's possible that in a steeply inclined position the heart may have to work a bit harder and/or blood pressure may be elevated to account for the raised brain. I doubt it's that detrimental, as again, you seem to be reporting good quality outcomes. According to the research summarized in Get It Up!, a slightly raised position is best for brain function anyways, though I'm unsure how a 15, 30, or 60 degree incline may differ, I know their preferred incline was 30.

 

[pauljacob]

Couple of thoughts.

1. The sleep position your body assumes unconsciously is likely the one you're used to falling asleep in. Muscle memory has a lot to do with this, and changing your "preferred" sleep position is difficult because it requires you to lay in an unfamiliar and non-preferred position until you fall asleep (or when you wake up at night), over and over, until that position becomes the new normal or preferred.

However, it's not always that cut and dry either, while I can fall asleep on my back just fine now, I also sometimes like a slightly lateral position to fall asleep in, and sometimes not. Again though, for a healthy individual, I think breathing style is probably more important than position.

2. It's possible you're overhydrating if you're waking up every night to urinate. Have you read Matt Stone's Eat for Heat? I'd check that out if you haven't.

3. Subjective sleep analysis beats every other metric in my opinion. If you're waking up fully rested, refreshed, and feel good all day long, you're getting good sleep, period. I suppose it's possible that in a steeply inclined position the heart may have to work a bit harder and/or blood pressure may be elevated to account for the raised brain. I doubt it's that detrimental, as again, you seem to be reporting good quality outcomes. According to the research summarized in Get It Up!, a slightly raised position is best for brain function anyways, though I'm unsure how a 15, 30, or 60 degree incline may differ, I know their preferred incline was 30.

Thank you itchaboyagain for a very informative and helpful reply. I will peruse the links you provided. Much appreciated.

 

[itchaboyagain]

Thank you itchaboyagain for a very informative and helpful reply. I will peruse the links you provided. Much appreciated.

No problem!