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narouz said:I've stored up some other quibbles over the years
about the Learned Helplessness thing.
Here's one of them:
Now, I don't want to debate the politics of this,
at least not in this part of the forum.
I know some Libertarians who are nice people.
I will just make this objective observation:
this forum seems to attract a lot of folks of the Libertarian or Randian schools of political thought.
I guess this is because Peat is seen as a Maverick,
and Libertarians and Randians seem to self-identify as Mavericks themselves.
Also, similarly, Peat is seen as anti-estabishment.
He has said he wishes to dis-establish the medical-"science"-pharma-corporate power structure.
And Peat definitely is at least skeptical, if not just plain cynical, about most governments,
including the US government.
So those ideas ring pleasingly in Libertarian ears, I think.
(Again--not getting into whether Libertarianism is good or bad.
Just trying to reflect some general, objective impressions of the forum's membership
and political leanings.)
From those workpoints,
many come to the conclusion that Peat is a Libertarian.
This is a leap that I think is unfounded and that I am analyzing a bit in this post.
I think those who make that leap often use the Learned Helplessness view
to justify and reinforce the leap
connecting Peat to Libertarianism.
From a Libertarian point of view
the Learned Helplessness idea is pure catnip.
It is a diagnosis of the human condition which fits well into their political ideas.
In short,
it seems that Libertarians generally see governments as the main affliction of mankind.
It is government which teaches, in their view, Learned Helplessness.
And so the thinking goes,
if you get rid of government,
you get rid of Learned Helplessness.
So, thinking about a political issue, wealth inequality for instance,
Libertarians look at, say, the popular charts on YouTube about Wealth Inequality
and turn to the Peatian Learned Helplessness idea.
From their perspective, using the Learned Helplessness diagnosis writ large,
Libertarians will argue that the only reason the 90% are suffering from lack of wealth
is because they have been taught or have osmosed Learned Helplessness
from Big Nanny State Guvment.
And if we can just get rid of those governments,
then people will stop being cowardly, spineless, slavish, uncreative, unproductive, shiftless, lazy
wimps,
and then the wealth will flow,
and all will be right with the world.
Again, not commenting here upon the value, good or bad, of Libertarian thinking.
Just noting--because this is a thread on Learned Helplessness--
that Learned Helplessness is sometimes generalized here,
in a submerged way,
into a political idea.
Waremu said:Libertarianism isn't about solving every social or health problem and blaming government for everything, but rather, blaming government for what it does and not giving it too much power because of it's proven record to always abuse that power. If there is a problem not caused by government, then it can be taken care of through education or other means, which is part of the free market.
Waremu said:...they have been taught in college and HS school to not think for themselves/critical thinking and individualism, but rather a collective pack-mentality kind of way of thinking.
Waremu said:I am sorry but I have to say, no one could be more far off the mark than you are.
Waremu said:...I find that many of those who bash libertarianism really have no true understanding of it and that isn't to say that I believe it should be forced upon everyone....
Waremu said:...if something is to be criticized or corrected, then it must first be understood correctly, for what is not understood correctly can never be corrected, as the need for correction in of itself is needed only when there is error.
halken said:pboy owns this thread.
Amazoniac said:I have to ditch this habit: 90% of my posts are worshipping pboy, also known as this forum's mascot. I can't help it!
narouz said:Waremu said:Libertarianism isn't about solving every social or health problem and blaming government for everything, but rather, blaming government for what it does and not giving it too much power because of it's proven record to always abuse that power. If there is a problem not caused by government, then it can be taken care of through education or other means, which is part of the free market.
Dang!
It sounds just like the Democratic Party in the U.S.!
I have been so confused!
I'm thinkin' I might really warm up to this Libertarianism!
Waremu said:...they have been taught in college and HS school to not think for themselves/critical thinking and individualism, but rather a collective pack-mentality kind of way of thinking.
Though I'm well past high school,
it is embarrassing to have to admit that you really nailed me dead on there.
I hate myself when I'm running with the pack but...
I know no other life.
Waremu said:I am sorry but I have to say, no one could be more far off the mark than you are.
I reckon.
Bernie Sanders?
Waremu said:...I find that many of those who bash libertarianism really have no true understanding of it and that isn't to say that I believe it should be forced upon everyone....
If it works as well as I am now persuaded it does, then...eh...
I say just go ahead and force 'em all. :2cents
Waremu said:...if something is to be criticized or corrected, then it must first be understood correctly, for what is not understood correctly can never be corrected, as the need for correction in of itself is needed only when there is error.
If I'm reading you right there, War...I'm kinda feelin' like there's no hope for me.
Well, I just going to pretend I didn't read that,
because I was building up such hopes
that you will larn me up on the wonders of Libertarianism
over in one of the appropriate threads here.
Amazoniac said:I have to ditch this habit: 90% of my posts are worshipping pboy, also known as this forum's mascot. I can't help it!
Peat's_Girl said:Wait, is it comments like that that make me a frivolous girl?
Birdie said:I was just reading the above little exchange to Mr Birdie.
Fun!
Usually regret joining in because I have a hard time saying what I think.
It usually comes out stunted or not what I meant.
For example, what narouz wrote about libertarianism..
I wrote, "Agree." Trying to be brief.
But it was more than agreeing with his words. I agree with the tone of it.
Maybe. Or the way it opens up thought. Or.. hard to explain.
If I heard somebody else give my reaction, I would recognize it.
Escaping Learned Helplessness is a great topic.
But more than that, I've gained insight by reading the comments here.
Such_Saturation said:Narouz, please don't make me call Idi again
Peat's_Girl said:Wait, is it comments like that that make me a frivolous girl?
narouz said:halken said:pboy owns this thread.
"owning" is infra dig to pboy,
I'd have to guess.
Greg says said:In response to threat and injury, animals, including humans, execute biologically based, non-conscious action patterns that prepare them to meet the threat and defend themselves.
The very structure of trauma, including activation, dissociation and freezing are based on the evolution of survival behaviors. When threatened or injured, all animals draw from a "library" of possible responses. We orient, dodge, duck, stiffen, brace, retract, fight, flee, freeze, collapse, etc. All of these coordinated responses are somatically based- they are things that the body does to protect and defend itself. It is when these orienting and defending responses are overwhelmed that we see trauma.
Greg says said:The bodies of traumatized people portray "snapshots" of their unsuccessful attempts to defend themselves in the face of threat and injury. Trauma is a highly activated incomplete biological response to threat, frozen in time. For example, when we prepare to fight or to flee, muscles throughout our entire body are tensed in specific patterns of high energy readiness. When we are unable to complete the appropriate actions, we fail to discharge the tremendous energy generated by our survival preparations. This energy becomes fixed in specific patterns of neuromuscular readiness. The person then stays in a state of acute and then chronic arousal and dysfunction in the central nervous system. Traumatized people are not suffering from a disease in the normal sense of the word- they have become stuck in an aroused state. It is difficult if not impossible to function normally under these circumstances.”