Excessive Fructose is Poison & Burden To The Liver & Mitochondria

[mostlylurking]

OK. So I have spent a little time trying to understand exactly what this topic is about. I've only read two-three articles, maybe someone who has gone further down this rabbit hole has better research articles to provide?

I started here:

New discovery could help protect the liver from fructose-induced diseases

A team of international researchers including Monash University academics has discovered that, contrary to previous belief, fructose causes liver toxicity by changing the barrier function of the intestine.

www.news-medical.net

"In recent years it’s become evident that excessive fructose metabolism in the gut reduces the production of proteins that maintain the gut barrier, which can lead to a chronic inflammation condition called endotoxemia, as documented in animal studies and pediatric NAFLD patients."

thoughts: I didn't know fructose was "metabolized" in the gut. Maybe they mean "absorbed"? Or maybe gut bacteria metabolizes fructose into energy? I thought sugars got absorbed via the small intestine and the small intestine is supposed to be pretty much sterile. Maybe I'm overthinking this....

so I searched further online (searched: "excessive fructose metabolism in the gut reduces the production of proteins that maintain the gut barrier") and found:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8358846/

Excess dietary fructose does not alter gut microbiota or permeability in humans: A pilot randomized controlled study​

"Non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) is an increasing cause of chronic liver disease that accompanies obesity and the metabolic syndrome. Excess fructose consumption can initiate or exacerbate NAFLD in part due to a consequence of impaired hepatic fructose metabolism. Preclinical data emphasized that fructose-induced altered gut microbiome, increased gut permeability, and endotoxemia play an important role in NAFLD, but human studies are sparse. The present study aimed to determine if two weeks of excess fructose consumption significantly alters gut microbiota or permeability in humans."
-end paste-

So I searched for "impaired hepatic fructose metabolism". And found this:

The small intestine shields the liver from fructose-induced steatosis - Nature Metabolism

Modulating the capacity of the intestinal epithelium to catabolize fructose is shown to alter fructose-induced lipogenesis in the mouse liver, suggesting that fructose clearance in the small intestine protects from steatosis.

www.nature.com

The small intestine shields the liver from fructose-induced steatosis​

"Collectively, these data demonstrate that fructose induces lipogenesis when its dietary intake rate exceeds the intestinal clearance capacity. In the modern context of ready food availability, the resulting fructose spillover drives metabolic syndrome. Slower fructose intake, tailored to intestinal capacity, can mitigate these consequences."
-end paste-

Apparently, if you consume more fructose than your small intestine can absorb you can get into some trouble. I think it makes more sense to focus on things that would keep your gut (and liver) healthy and functioning than it would to obsess on banishing all foods that have a whisper of fructose floating around inside them. But that's just my personal opinion.

I really do like orange juice. I'm going to keep on drinking it.

 

[TucsonJJ]

Anecdotally this has been my experience as well. Sugar and certain starches give me energy and strength (when in appropriate amounts) whereas fructose fattens me up and makes me feel pretty slow cognitively
Fruit can be great post workout or on small amounts but that’s really my only exception

Sort of leaves the "Peat Way" out in the cold... no? Salidino too...
What is now the Peat food list, as fruit bows out? Meat is no good, too much PUFA from PUFA feed, right? Veggies out, too many anti-nutrients... Cheese is from cows loaded with PUFA, hormones, antibiotics, so that's out too... of course unless you can find and afford grass-fed meat and cheese... most fats... out... even the "good" ones have too much PUFA... maybe Ghee?

I'm starting to think that Dr. McDougall and his Rice Diet is not so nutty after all.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mcdougall+diet

 

[ddjd]

Same here, and I’m almost 43. I overcame gallbladder disease, stones and biliary sludge, proven not just by the cessation of symptoms but before and after ultrasounds, while consuming up to 4 liters of fruit juice daily. I currently average 2 liters of pear and apple juice a day with no issues whatsoever.

Any other tips for recovering from gallbladder issues. I suspect I have several stones

 

[TheDogsDid-It!]

Hereditary Fructose Intolerance - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Aldolase B is an essential enzyme that is responsible for the breakdown of fructose-1-phosphate into glyceraldehyde and dihydroxyacetone phosphate.

I wonder if adding this when consuming fructose would help alleviate some of the problems people are having with fructose.

Wow, this helped me so much. I can't eat fruit and never could without what seemed like dysbiosis. I don't have these symptoms unless I eat fruit. I gave it up because of discomfort and tried recently (joining this forum) to add it, feeling I might be jeopardizing my health without fruit. But all this discomfort returned and that was with very little fruit. I read other comments about being of European background, and that being a possible link to the problem. I kept reading on and when I saw Aldolase B as an enzyme, I ran to the cupboard and pulled out all my digestive enzymes and found nothing related. I googled to see if I could buy Aldolase B, and found this article about common genetic mutations in Northern Europeans (dad's side is Switzerland, mom's side Scotland, so I'm all that!). I'm one that tests regularly for micronutrient levels, Dexa, hormone levels and general blood work, and nothing indicates I'm suffering a problem without eating fruit, so I guess I will keep avoiding it and keep on testing to be sure. This is the article I am referring to from Science Direct: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/biochemistry-genetics-and-molecular-biology/aldolase-b

 

[mostlylurking]

Sort of leaves the "Peat Way" out in the cold... no? Salidino too...
What is now the Peat food list, as fruit bows out? Meat is no good, too much PUFA from PUFA feed, right? Veggies out, too many anti-nutrients... Cheese is from cows loaded with PUFA, hormones, antibiotics, so that's out too... of course unless you can find and afford grass-fed meat and cheese... most fats... out... even the "good" ones have too much PUFA... maybe Ghee?

I'm starting to think that Dr. McDougall and his Rice Diet is not so nutty after all.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mcdougall+diet

If you rely on this forum for your knowledge base you'll get yourself into trouble pdq. Reading Ray Peat's articles work a lot better.

 

[tallglass13]

Genuine question, shouldn't this go under "Anti peat"?

This is not anti Peat. People are thinking critically for themselves. This is very very Peat. Ray liked to eat certain things. There is no Ray Peat diet, only "recommendations". Most did not do well or heal I should say eating certain foods Ray liked to eat.

 

[mostlylurking]

This is not anti Peat. People are thinking critically for themselves. This is very very Peat. Ray liked to eat certain things. There is no Ray Peat diet, only "recommendations". Most did not do well or heal I should say eating certain foods Ray liked to eat.

The only aspect of this thread that I would consider being "anti" Peat is when Authoritarianism shows up.

 

[Jennifer]

Not these specifically, I've never eaten any with this appearance (as in the photo you've attached) that were optimally ripe, the perfectly ripe tarroco semi-sanguine oranges I've experimented with have brown spots like freckles, a very thin, soft skin, that comes off without forcing, very little/no thin white film on the flesh, a circle around the center at the lower end of the orange, and very little red pigment inside, and when we run our fingers over it, it's smooth with little/no irregularity, almost no residue in mouth

Thank you for explaining. :) The characteristics you describe are what I look for in oranges, along with a calyx containing 5 or more petals as this is an indication of higher Brix. The best oranges I’ve ever had are these heirloom naval oranges from a ranch in California. Their sweet, floral scent permeates the entire store. They’re currently in season so if I can get my hands on some, I’ll post a pic.

Any other tips for recovering from gallbladder issues. I suspect I have several stones

Some find that the herb chanca piedra a.k.a stone breaker helps dissolve stones, but I personally experienced only temporary relief taking it. How is your digestion? Along with gallbladder disease, I had SIBO (both hydrogen and methane), which worsened my symptoms. I took two course of the prescribed treatment (rifaximin and neomycin), but it wasn’t until my doctor prescribed me NDT and I temporarily eliminated the foods that exacerbated the overgrowth that I eliminated it, the gallstones and biliary sludge.

 

[charlie]

Meat is no good, too much PUFA from PUFA feed, right?

Red meat is one of the best foods we have. Grass fed is best of course.

 

[charlie]

The only aspect of this thread that I would consider being "anti" Peat is when Authoritarianism shows up.

That's two. One more and you are gone.

 

[mostlylurking]

Meat is no good, too much PUFA from PUFA feed, right?

Ruminant animal meat is saturated so it's OK. Beef, lamb, venison, is fine. If fattened in a feed lot with grains, there can be problems though. Grass fed organic is best.

Meat physiology, stress, and degenerative physiology.

Considerable amounts of some chemicals, such as sodium citrate, are allowed to add to the weight of the meat. The use of ozone and hydrogen peroxide to deodorize meat causes instantaneous oxidative changes, including lipid peroxidation and protein carbonyl formation, as well as increasing water...

raypeat.com

 

[Jonk]

This is not anti Peat. People are thinking critically for themselves. This is very very Peat. Ray liked to eat certain things. There is no Ray Peat diet, only "recommendations". Most did not do well or heal I should say eating certain foods Ray liked to eat.

Sure but calling fructose a poison isn't in line with Peat, maybe you can get away with having "excessive" in the title. He obviously didn't think fructose was a poison. Not saying one shouldn't think critically, just label it correctly.

 

[Jonk]

So table sugar is poison, Mexican coke is poison, ice cream poison

This is very very Peat.

 

[UphillEndeavors]

The only aspect of this thread that I would consider being "anti" Peat is when Authoritarianism shows up.

This is concerning. I've been gone for a while, only to come back to a seemingly anti-Peat environment with one heck of an authoritarian feel. That happened fast. What did I miss?

 

[TucsonJJ]

Do you personally believe that these statements by the god of the Bible about our foods are not timeless, that they were positive and valid at the time, and that they are wrong and harmfull now,

Or do you believe they are timeless, valid and positive at all times?

Do you personally believe that the fruits of that time did not contain a good part of fructose?

I shared this even more specifically for user inchristalone who wrote that the god she believes in is a god of order, and the order of genesis in the first chapter according to the internet seems to be eating fruit

I suggest reading Biglino's "The Naked Bible". Might wake you up to a few things you didn't know.

 

[TucsonJJ]

Hey there....Seems like a good approach to me although the rest of the diet needs to be toxin free as possible.


Yes, I am saying that. It is a poison to the liver and mitochondria. The liver is able to clear a bit of it a day, and that amount will be different for everyone. But it is indeed a burden to the liver. Anytime something is a burden to the liver other toxins like heavy metals are gonna be stacking up.

With that said, I still eat a couple apples a day and also 2-4 bananas a day because from my observations that is the amount I am able to handle OK. The fiber from the apple and potassium from the bananas outweigh the downside of the fructose I will get.

Why not take psyllium fiber, and maybe potassium bicarbonate... and get rid of the apples and bananas, since they are somewhat harmful?

Would things like Ceylon cinnamon, chromium, Salcida oblonga, Cinnulin PF, vanadium, etc possibly mitigate the downside of fructose?

 

[TucsonJJ]

Exactly. Fructose will slow slow down your liver, plain and simple. Glucose fuels the liver for detox and keeps the bile moving. Team glucose for the win.

Is Tudca worth taking to enhance bile flow?

 

[TucsonJJ]

Hi Jennifer! There are definitely acids in certain fruits that can be helpful for gallbladders. I never noticed much difference though in my symptoms. Betaine/TMG seems to do more for my gallbladder than fruit. I think one needs to monitor their triglycerides when consuming that much fructose.

Betaine TMG is a nitric oxide enhancing supp... yes? I know Dinkov thinks NO is the devil...
I tried it and I think it gave me heart palps, but I am sensitive to everything... bummer, as it supposedly is a BIG testosterone booster...

 

[mostlylurking]

This is concerning. I've been gone for a while, only to come back to a seemingly anti-Peat environment with one heck of an authoritarian feel. That happened fast. What did I miss?

I don't know. I've been pretty active on the forum daily for quite a while. I thought my time was well spent; I thought perhaps I was able to help some people. This new feel has been brewing for a little while on the anti Peat threads. But now it's like somebody flipped a switch. I'm done now. Won't be posting anymore. So if this post makes anyone's head explode, well that's OK with me. Because the destruction of this forum is too sad to watch. Life is too short. I have better ways to spend my time. Bye everyone.

 

[TucsonJJ]

Ruminant animal meat is saturated so it's OK. Beef, lamb, venison, is fine. If fattened in a feed lot with grains, there can be problems though. Grass fed organic is best.

Meat physiology, stress, and degenerative physiology.

Considerable amounts of some chemicals, such as sodium citrate, are allowed to add to the weight of the meat. The use of ozone and hydrogen peroxide to deodorize meat causes instantaneous oxidative changes, including lipid peroxidation and protein carbonyl formation, as well as increasing water...

raypeat.com

But are not almost all standard grocery store meat varieties fattened in feed lots?
I am lucky enough to be able to afford butcher shop meats, I have not been to one lately though... do they typically have grass-fed meats of all kinds?

BTW: I recently read a Substack claiming that Sodium citrate may be a powerful supplement to combat vaxx poisoning... is it bad stuff to be supplementing?