How to stay calm when discussing vaccines with friends and family

[Rinse & rePeat]

I just don't discuss it. If it gets brought up, I straight up ignore it, pivot the convo in another direction, or if I really have no choice I use the reverse psychology and yell "I'm the anti vax satan" and make silly faces. Works all the time. But then again, those who know me personally, know I'm a big joker and am not gonna go into discussions about such things. There's absolutely no point in it.

You are right about that, there is no point.

 

[Ben.]

I just watched the evening NBC news at 6:30. There was a segment about a hospital in Florida with a unit that had been down to one covid patient but now is filled up with mostly unvaccinated people who have covid. They interviewed a nurse from the unit who said this. Being unvaccinated is getting scarier since it is the unvaccinated who are getting sick with covid now.

I am almost equally afraid of being vaccinated and not being vaccinated. I just can't bring myself to put the vax in my body.

Im probably leaning out of the window here but it sounds to me that the "fear" that has been induced into you is more of a problem and a health hazard than either the virus or vaccine is by causing immense chronic tension/stress. People always get sick, unvaccinated or not, dont let news or aggressive agendas cloud your mind. Trust in yourself. Your body is taking care of bacteria and viruses day in - day out, constantly. It is not about believing or not believing in viruses or vaccines, but actually trying to get a hold of reality, of what is actually going on, everything else is clouded, emotional conflict that divides us and serves thoose that benefit from it.

---

The majority of deaths of ill people in this world are not investigated the way they should be.
Many deaths, illnesses and symptoms have been attributed to covid, without actually a proper, scientific examination of wether it is true or not (if that is even possible). I have been questioning many times how exactly a person died when i was told someone died from covid and i have yet to recieve a explanation that has been better than "oh he was old and had alot of chronic health issues already". What organ failed? How do we know it was this virus and not something else? Why did he/she have this chronic illness? What Illnness? Did this already irreversibly damage the organism/organs? Have all other potential causes have been properly invastigated and thus exluded as a cause of death?

If you can or did not do any of thoose how can you say someone died of covid? How? There is this huge flawed fallacy people run into that a person that has been tested positive before or after death with covid must automaticly mean that the the cause of death was covid. Let alone that the tests are immensely innacurate and hold not much value behind them.

In this case the issue lies in a dysfunctional, uncapable healthcare that is handicapped by this flawed system we have and fueled by "science" that is immensely contradictory and serves far to many times financial interest rather than actual advancement and worldwide lifeimprovement.

The data thats been provided is not displaying the reality of what is happening and newsstations take any dramatic and horrific story they can to increase their viewership trough sensationalism.
Whatever profession or title someone has, does not have to mean much beyond the initial assumption we make, which usually is "oh he studied this, he has to know what hes talking about". But if one where to look behind the curtain to get a better grasp, it will be rather clear that what many of these people know is not neccessarily more than textbook knowledge and conventional biased teaching.

 

[gaze]

Im probably leaning out of the window here but it sounds to me that the "fear" that has been induced into you is more of a problem and a health hazard than either the virus or vaccine is by causing immense chronic tension/stress. People always get sick, unvaccinated or not, dont let news or aggressive agendas cloud your mind. Trust in yourself. Your body is taking care of bacteria and viruses day in - day out, constantly. It is not about believing or not believing in viruses or vaccines, but actually trying to get a hold of reality, of what is actually going on, everything else is clouded, emotional conflict that divides us and serves thoose that benefit from it.

---

The majority of deaths of ill people in this world are not investigated the way they should be.
Many deaths, illnesses and symptoms have been attributed to covid, without actually a proper, scientific examination of wether it is true or not (if that is even possible). I have been questioning many times how exactly a person died when i was told someone died from covid and i have yet to recieve a explanation that has been better than "oh he was old and had alot of chronic health issues already". What organ failed? How do we know it was this virus and not something else? Why did he/she have this chronic illness? What Illnness? Did this already irreversibly damage the organism/organs? Have all other potential causes have been properly invastigated and thus exluded as a cause of death?

If you can or did not do any of thoose how can you say someone died of covid? How? There is this huge flawed fallacy people run into that a person that has been tested positive before or after death with covid must automaticly mean that the the cause of death was covid. Let alone that the tests are immensely innacurate and hold not much value behind them.

In this case the issue lies in a dysfunctional, uncapable healthcare that is handicapped by this flawed system we have and fueled by "science" that is immensely contradictory and serves far to many times financial interest rather than actual advancement and worldwide lifeimprovement.

The data thats been provided is not displaying the reality of what is happening and newsstations take any dramatic and horrific story they can to increase their viewership trough sensationalism.
Whatever profession or title someone has, does not have to mean much beyond the initial assumption we make, which usually is "oh he studied this, he has to know what hes talking about". But if one where to look behind the curtain to get a better grasp, it will be rather clear that what many of these people know is not neccessarily more than textbook knowledge and conventional biased teaching.

but how does that answer the question as to why the US data shows unvaccinated people are the majority dieing with PCR test positive covid?

everyone on this forum says it's because they're not testing vaccinated people at the same PCR cycle, but i also reached out to 5-6 doctors and nurses I know personally and they all say every patient is tested at the same cycle, whether vaccinated or not.

So i really haven't found a good answer to this question, no one seems to know what's going on. the doctors here claim they're testing everyone normally, while others say the testing rules are different. the US says 99% of people dieing are unvaccinated, while in england it's only 60%. who's lying, and how is it being manipulated? it's like a perpetual state of mass confusion by everyone, hard to find any truth anywhwre

 

[Nighteyes]

ridicule is more powerful than reason when you're dealing with ignorance

:10:

 

[stoic]

I experienced something similar last winter when the government forced us to lock down again and most people seemed to be perfectly ok with it.

If you haven't already, I suggest you read Marcus Aurelius's Meditations. It helped me a lot during those difficult times.

"I can control my thoughts as necessary; then how can I be troubled? What is outside my mind means nothing to it. Absorb that lesson and your feet stand firm."

 

[WanderingTaoist]

I experienced something similar last winter when the government forced us to lock down again and most people seemed to be perfectly ok with it.

If you haven't already, I suggest you read Marcus Aurelius's Meditations. It helped me a lot during those difficult times.

"I can control my thoughts as necessary; then how can I be troubled? What is outside my mind means nothing to it. Absorb that lesson and your feet stand firm."

Nice suggestion, the Tao Te Ching also if I may add.
Both are on the same page in substance I believe.
It's about seeing the world and yourself as it is without any judgment as everything is but the manifestation of One Mind / God / Void / Pure Conscioussness / Tao; good and evil wouldn't exist without each other, etc..

Correct me if I'm wrong, haven't read Meditations tbh.

 

[stoic]

Nice suggestion, the Tao Te Ching also if I may add.
Both are on the same page in substance I believe.
It's about seeing the world and yourself as it is without any judgment as everything is but the manifestation of One Mind / God / Void / Pure Conscioussness / Tao; good and evil wouldn't exist without each other, etc..

Correct me if I'm wrong, haven't read Meditations tbh.

Yes, I am not well versed in Eastern philosophy but I can see them being very similar.

Another relevant quote from my notes:

“As you move forward in the logos, people will stand in your way. They can’t keep you from doing what’s healthy; don’t let them stop you from putting up with them either. Take care on both counts. Not just sound judgments, solid actions—tolerance as well, for those who try to obstruct us or give us trouble in other ways.
Because anger, too, is weakness, as much as breaking down and giving up the struggle. Both are deserters: the man who breaks and runs, and the one who lets himself be alienated from his fellow humans.”

 

[Ben.]

but how does that answer the question as to why the US data shows unvaccinated people are the majority dieing with PCR test positive covid?

everyone on this forum says it's because they're not testing vaccinated people at the same PCR cycle, but i also reached out to 5-6 doctors and nurses I know personally and they all say every patient is tested at the same cycle, whether vaccinated or not.

So i really haven't found a good answer to this question, no one seems to know what's going on. the doctors here claim they're testing everyone normally, while others say the testing rules are different. the US says 99% of people dieing are unvaccinated, while in england it's only 60%. who's lying, and how is it being manipulated? it's like a perpetual state of mass confusion by everyone, hard to find any truth anywhwre

Perhaps i shoudln't have written that last sentence but good question. And to understand all the variables and issues that come with PCR testing it would need alot more expertice and knowledge from my part ( ...would love to see/hear a scientist with lots of expertise in PCR tests talk about it unbiased, detached from any agenda or believ to talk about the procedure), altough its not just the cycle from what i understand that can/could result in inaccurate results. In either case it raises many questions:
How can we assure that all the tests that are done and the data thats beeing derived from them to be accurate and that all procceses before and during testing have been executed idealy?

What about contamination of the test kits or the lab? Where are the samples taken from?
What about False results that may occur due to the presence of amplification inhibitors in the sample or insufficient organisms in the sample rising from inappropriate collection, transportation, or handling?
What about pipetting errors causing excessive enzyme levels??
What about performance variability with using different MgCl2 concentrations?
Was the preliminary work done properly before the quantitation or to ensure the signal is specific for the desired PCR product and that nonspecific amplification does not occur? (what exact RT-PCR do they use? or does it differ from lab to lab, company to company?)

What does a positive test result realy mean other than there is a X% accuracy of a DNA / RNA sequence find?

Call me pessimist but i highly, highly doubt that everything that falls into the "data" stems from purely ideal/accurate tests.

Lets assume the data is correctly displaying virus being present in all these people, does this "result" realy have to mean anything for the person or thoose around him/her? Does it realy say much or anything about being sick or being contagious?
What came first, the person dying or the virus? Which caused what, what came first? Maybe there is no right/wrong but perhaps its different per individual case. If that were the case the whole claim would be moot aswell.

---

Even if we were to accept the correlation of people testing positive on PCR tests and them dying, we still can't conclusively make the statement that these people all died due to covid or due to being unvaccinated. Thats not scientific, thats lazy, observational conclusion that may very well be false and does not justify anything that has happened unless you literally went trough each and every person, conclusively and accurately managed to investigate and proove that all of them died from covid and its implications without any predating issues in the organism, only and only then can this ridiclious statement be validated and scientificly be accepted.

Would love to here other peoples thoughts in regards to this.

 

[SamYo123]

They're not your friends?

 

[Tre]

Im probably leaning out of the window here but it sounds to me that the "fear" that has been induced into you is more of a problem and a health hazard than either the virus or vaccine is by causing immense chronic tension/stress. People always get sick, unvaccinated or not, dont let news or aggressive agendas cloud your mind. Trust in yourself. Your body is taking care of bacteria and viruses day in - day out, constantly. It is not about believing or not believing in viruses or vaccines, but actually trying to get a hold of reality, of what is actually going on, everything else is clouded, emotional conflict that divides us and serves thoose that benefit from it.

---

The majority of deaths of ill people in this world are not investigated the way they should be.
Many deaths, illnesses and symptoms have been attributed to covid, without actually a proper, scientific examination of wether it is true or not (if that is even possible). I have been questioning many times how exactly a person died when i was told someone died from covid and i have yet to recieve a explanation that has been better than "oh he was old and had alot of chronic health issues already". What organ failed? How do we know it was this virus and not something else? Why did he/she have this chronic illness? What Illnness? Did this already irreversibly damage the organism/organs? Have all other potential causes have been properly invastigated and thus exluded as a cause of death?

If you can or did not do any of thoose how can you say someone died of covid? How? There is this huge flawed fallacy people run into that a person that has been tested positive before or after death with covid must automaticly mean that the the cause of death was covid. Let alone that the tests are immensely innacurate and hold not much value behind them.

In this case the issue lies in a dysfunctional, uncapable healthcare that is handicapped by this flawed system we have and fueled by "science" that is immensely contradictory and serves far to many times financial interest rather than actual advancement and worldwide lifeimprovement.

The data thats been provided is not displaying the reality of what is happening and newsstations take any dramatic and horrific story they can to increase their viewership trough sensationalism.
Whatever profession or title someone has, does not have to mean much beyond the initial assumption we make, which usually is "oh he studied this, he has to know what hes talking about". But if one where to look behind the curtain to get a better grasp, it will be rather clear that what many of these people know is not neccessarily more than textbook knowledge and conventional biased teaching.

Thank you for your answer which had so much meat in it and food for thought. Yes, the fear of covid in itself is a problem and stymies me. But the support and information I have received here has helped me move forward a bit. In addition to developing a fear during the time of covid, I have had the rude awakening that so many others have (some you noted above) had about how the government manipulates data to suit their purposes, the media have a pro vax agenda and provide news reports accordingly and the big Pharmacy companies are in charge and money is their first priority. So, in addition to worrying about covid itself I have lost a great deal of trust in the major institutions I depend on. On the bright side, and not to be so negative here, I am thankful every day for what I have. Thank you again for pointing out how so much of what we hear about is inaccurate for so many reasons.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

but how does that answer the question as to why the US data shows unvaccinated people are the majority dieing with PCR test positive covid?

everyone on this forum says it's because they're not testing vaccinated people at the same PCR cycle, but i also reached out to 5-6 doctors and nurses I know personally and they all say every patient is tested at the same cycle, whether vaccinated or not.

So i really haven't found a good answer to this question, no one seems to know what's going on. the doctors here claim they're testing everyone normally, while others say the testing rules are different. the US says 99% of people dieing are unvaccinated, while in england it's only 60%. who's lying, and how is it being manipulated? it's like a perpetual state of mass confusion by everyone, hard to find any truth anywhwre

Exactly, and how do you fake bodies piling up all over the world on sidewalks and make-shift tents and such? Were they all actors or dummies? The one that gets me is the election Trump stuff, like the world faked everything to get Trump out ?People are all over the map with what is REALLY going on. No doubt there is something amiss, but I am not going the rush to be hasty.

 

[frannybananny]

I think last years big scares and problems was the ventilators and obviously blood clots. I had family get Covid with only a sniffle. In the beginning it was scary cause we didn't know facts and now we do and the vax might be what this was all about. In any case we need to be doing as Ray Peat has said about cancer, which is far more deadly than covid "first do no nothing" and "watchful waiting".

"Before cancer treatment became culturally practically obligatory, and when fewer people died of cancer, some people lived into old age with clearly “malignant” cancers, and died of some other cause. The policy of leaving a cancer alone is now established for prostate cancer in old men. Until there is clear evidence to the contrary, a similar policy might be appropriate for many kinds of cancer.
If every year more people are treated for cancer, and every year more people die of cancer, one simply wonders whether fewer people would die if few were treated." -Ray Peat

I wonder what Dr Ray Peat would say about people curing themselves of cancer using Fenbendazole or other antihelmintics/antiparastical. It seems to be very effective first causing main tumor die-off and stopping all metastisis. Have you read the Joe Tippens story? This is sweeping the world. I keep not only Ivermectin in my cabinet for "just in case" of exposure to Covid but also Fenbendazole/dog dewormer for preventative and "just in case" of cancer.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I wonder what Dr Ray Peat would say about people curing themselves of cancer using Fenbendazole or other antihelmintics/antiparastical. It seems to be very effective first causing main tumor die-off and stopping all metastisis. Have you read the Joe Tippens story? This is sweeping the world. I keep not only Ivermectin in my cabinet for "just in case" of exposure to Covid but also Fenbendazole/dog dewormer for preventative and "just in case" of cancer.

No I haven't. Ray Peat talks much about aspirin curing cancer, which is a fascinating story too! I have had two people I know who have had breast cancer and decided NOT to do the doctor route, and cleaned up their diets instead, and the tumors shrunk up to being gone, that was 10+ years ago!

 

[Tim Lundeen]

but how does that answer the question as to why the US data shows unvaccinated people are the majority dieing with PCR test positive covid?

We really don't know this. Where is the data for this claim?

Keep in mind that unvaccinated are given PCR tests with 40+ cycles (very high false positives), while vaxxed are given PCR with low cycle counts (<=28, very low false positives, more false negatives). The news has also been known to cherry-pick hospitals that support their claims, while the overall reality is very different.

Also keep in mind that none of these patients are treated optimally. Optimal treatment dramatically lower mortality.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

We really don't know that this. Where is the data for this claim?

Keep in mind that unvaccinated are given PCR tests with 40+ cycles (very high false positives), while vaxxed are given PCR with low cycle counts (<=28, very low false positives, more false negatives). The news has also been known to cherry-pick hospitals that support their claims, while the overall reality is very different.

Also keep in mind that none of these patients are treated optimally. Optimal treatment dramatically lower mortality.

Tim do you not know personally people that died of of Covid, or ones who have had side effects from the vax?

 

[PeatBull]

Most of people are people no more, live with that.

 

[gaze]

Keep in mind that unvaccinated are given PCR tests with 40+ cycles (very high false positives), while vaxxed are given PCR with low cycle counts (<=28, very low false positives, more false negatives).

ive asked plenty of doctors and nurses about this claim. all of them said it's false. vaccinated and unvaccinated are being tested at the same cycles, same test. in fact they test people before even asking if they're vaccinated or not, at least in hospitals

 

[Lord Cola]

Most people had so much time to look into this manufactured crisis at this point, and when you hear from these people how terrified they are, still, of the purported plague, it's not possible to feel that spending time with them would be a good use of your time. Now they are personally invested in the official narrative, by getting the mystery injections, and will tend to get aggressive if you attempt to have them merely consider non-official thoughts. Usually it's best to politely get away from them.

 

[gaze]

Perhaps i shoudln't have written that last sentence but good question. And to understand all the variables and issues that come with PCR testing it would need alot more expertice and knowledge from my part ( ...would love to see/hear a scientist with lots of expertise in PCR tests talk about it unbiased, detached from any agenda or believ to talk about the procedure), altough its not just the cycle from what i understand that can/could result in inaccurate results. In either case it raises many questions:
How can we assure that all the tests that are done and the data thats beeing derived from them to be accurate and that all procceses before and during testing have been executed idealy?

What about contamination of the test kits or the lab? Where are the samples taken from?
What about False results that may occur due to the presence of amplification inhibitors in the sample or insufficient organisms in the sample rising from inappropriate collection, transportation, or handling?
What about pipetting errors causing excessive enzyme levels??
What about performance variability with using different MgCl2 concentrations?
Was the preliminary work done properly before the quantitation or to ensure the signal is specific for the desired PCR product and that nonspecific amplification does not occur? (what exact RT-PCR do they use? or does it differ from lab to lab, company to company?)

What does a positive test result realy mean other than there is a X% accuracy of a DNA / RNA sequence find?

Call me pessimist but i highly, highly doubt that everything that falls into the "data" stems from purely ideal/accurate tests.

Lets assume the data is correctly displaying virus being present in all these people, does this "result" realy have to mean anything for the person or thoose around him/her? Does it realy say much or anything about being sick or being contagious?
What came first, the person dying or the virus? Which caused what, what came first? Maybe there is no right/wrong but perhaps its different per individual case. If that were the case the whole claim would be moot aswell.

---

Even if we were to accept the correlation of people testing positive on PCR tests and them dying, we still can't conclusively make the statement that these people all died due to covid or due to being unvaccinated. Thats not scientific, thats lazy, observational conclusion that may very well be false and does not justify anything that has happened unless you literally went trough each and every person, conclusively and accurately managed to investigate and proove that all of them died from covid and its implications without any predating issues in the organism, only and only then can this ridiclious statement be validated and scientificly be accepted.

Would love to here other peoples thoughts in regards to this.

you make a lot of valid points, and ask valid questions, many of which I would like to know the answers to myself.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

....

ive asked plenty of doctors and nurses about this claim. all of them said it's false. vaccinated and unvaccinated are being tested at the same cycles, same test. in fact they test people before even asking if they're vaccinated or not, at least in hospitals

Funny my nurse friend says the vaccines are bad, and when her lawyer husband decided to get it, she told him to get their financial affairs together so she know how to function without out him. I am impressed with doctors that risk their reputations to speak out, they have nothing to gain doing so. I feel like all the other doctors and nurses have their heads in the sand because they don't want to un-elevate their professions or lose their jobs.