Ice Cream Causes Anxiety Attacks

[Westside PUFAs]

You don't have to eat cheese for a dairy source of calcium. There's fat free greek yogurt and skim milk.

 

[InChristAlone]

You don't have to eat cheese for a dairy source of calcium. There's fat free greek yogurt and skim milk.

So would you recommend meeting min. Calcium requirements? I have been doing Greek yogurt lately no adrenaline rushes after that. I doubt I'll ever drink skim milk with any regularity.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I don't worry about nutrients. I just eat servings of food. Calcium I get from all foods with it being highest in fat free goat yogurt and cooked greens. If your PTH levels are fine then your calcium intake is fine.

 

[InChristAlone]

I don't worry about nutrients. I just eat servings of food. Calcium I get from all foods with it being highest in fat free goat yogurt and cooked greens. If your PTH levels are fine then your calcium intake is fine.

So you do dairy, ok, great thanks! Do you do coffee?

 

[natedawggh]

I think it really depends on the kind of meal, I have really had digestion slow down from a fatty meal and then lead to nausea and things like that, but like I said ive been eating a lot of fat for several months and don't always get this reaction so you may be right. I don't take many other vitamins because I seem to react to all of them in some way. I have P5P and if I take only a few mg by the 2 nd day I get nightmares so it seems like yes it does cause low blood sugar. I need to try the taurine more, the last time I tried again by the 2nd day I had a big increase in bile or something , maybe I need to learn how to persist?

I think it really depends on the kind of meal, I have really had digestion slow down from a fatty meal and then lead to nausea and things like that, but like I said ive been eating a lot of fat for several months and don't always get this reaction so you may be right. I don't take many other vitamins because I seem to react to all of them in some way. I have P5P and if I take only a few mg by the 2 nd day I get nightmares so it seems like yes it does cause low blood sugar. I need to try the taurine more, the last time I tried again by the 2nd day I had a big increase in bile or something , maybe I need to learn how to persist?

Taurine will increase bile output for a while, but then that effect wears off. I now take up to 10grams of taurine with no bile effects (I think it took about two months for the effect to wear off), and when it did cause an effect I just lowered my dose back to where it didn't have that side effect.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

fat free goat yogurt

Hey Westside PUFAS....is your fat free goat yogurt a product that you purchase in a store or are you making it yourself?

I just learned that Meyenberg does indeed produce/sell a low-fat goat milk....now I'm wondering if I should purchase a yogurt maker.

@Janelle525 ....I'm by no means an expert, but the symptoms you describe sound like they could be related to endotoxin and/or some sort of food sensitivity.

Unfortunately it takes a while to figure out which foods are causing the issue because there seems to be a threshold of tolerance....some days you exceed your limit and the food triggers problems and yet on other days the very same food does nothing.

I'm not sure if this is related to certain enzymes or histamine or what, but gut flora and gut permeability are definitely involved. There is NO perfect diet that works for everyone, prolly because we all have differing levels of certain microbes and maybe a lack of others, who knows.

One thing to try is to completely cut out foods that you suspect are causing problems for at least 30 days, then add it back in and see what happens.....and maybe not take any supplements during this trial period so as not to confound your experiment.

Have you tried taking activated charcoal to see if there are any improvements? Do you do the carrot salad?

 

[lindsay]

Have you considered switching to goat dairy or A2 protein dairy? Or making your own low fat or no fat ice cream at home (if you really like ice cream that is)? I recently made my own fat free Icelandic fro-yo. It was terrible (too thick) - had to dump it. Then I bought goats' milk yogurt (which is thinner) and it makes a fabulous frozen yogurt. I don't like the additives in low fat dairy, so if I were to make fat free ice cream, I would choose raw milk and drain the liquid from the cream. But that's me :) Goat dairy is naturally homogenized and the low fat versions have very little calcium in them - at least, that's what the nutrition label on Meyenberg says - it's like 1/3 of their regular dairy.

I don't eat ice cream for personal reasons, but I eat a decent amount of cheese (maybe 3 oz. per day of the aged stuff, but I'm picky about the brands, rennet, etc.) You could try low or no fat versions, but if it's the protein type that's bothering you, that's a different story. The A1 protein, from what I remember, is in the whey of the dairy and is affected by fermentation (meaning it's almost eliminated the less whey there is). I read a lot about this a year ago and stopped drinking milk - switched to half & half (less milk protein) and aged cheese (again, I'm picky and avoid GMO stuff and strange additives, etc.) I tried to make do on goat dairy, but it's SO expensive.

Anyhow, I really know very little about adrenaline issues - I don't get them anymore and I don't know when they stopped, but I'm in agreement with Big Peatowski - sounds like something endotoxin related. The one time I had a real panic attack was when I had appendicitis two summers ago - I happened to be on a high starch kick at the time, eating a lot of rice and potatoes. Felt great at first and then began getting massive stomach issues. I still feel ill at ease when I see a bowl of mashed potatoes...... Anyhoo, the fever gave me a horrible anxiety/panic attack - we're talking full blown hyperventilating for at least an hour and thought I was going to die sort of thing. This is usually linked to serotonin in the lungs, which is usually high when one has endotoxemia or gut infection.

So, if ice cream is causing you panic attacks, I would stop eating it. I am a huge fan of high fat dairy for the vitamins and nutrients, but I don't push more than 65 grams most days and I'm somewhat active. Anyhow, I know ice cream can cause issues for lots of people - usually intestinal. It could be the lactose, or it could be the protein type. It's obviously causing you stress, so it's worth going without it if you can.

I've been experiencing endotoxin issues a lot lately - it seems to be linked to the hot weather (cooler days are less problematic), as well as menstruation, which is a new thing for me these days. Since bacteria thrive in hotter weather, this could be the bigger issue, along with something you are eating. Have you tried activated charcoal and cascara? Whenever I get endotoxin issues, I take no mercy. You could try charcoal and cascara, followed by fruit and/or yogurt. Just a thought. But if you think you have endotoxin symptoms, I might not switch to starch until you know things are endotoxinless. But that's just my two cents Hope you are feeling better soon!!!

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Goat dairy is naturally homogenized and the low fat versions have very little calcium in them - at least, that's what the nutrition label on Meyenberg says - it's like 1/3 of their regular dairy

Oh dear....well never mind then. Thanks lindsay, you just saved me from a bunch of needless experimenting with low-fat goat dairy.

I might still get a yogurt maker tho and make my own from the local raw goat milk farm...maybe. I'm in it for the calcium and I need as much as I can get. I've noticed Cron-O says goat milk is higher in phosphorus than cow dairy, so it's been a challenge to keep that balanced since switching over to goat milk.

 

[lindsay]

Oh dear....well never mind then. Thanks lindsay, you just saved me from a bunch of needless experimenting with low-fat goat dairy.

I might still get a yogurt maker tho and make my own from the local raw goat milk farm...maybe. I'm in it for the calcium and I need as much as I can get. I've noticed Cron-O says goat milk is higher in phosphorus than cow dairy, so it's been a challenge to keep that balanced since switching over to goat milk.

Yeah - I got all excited when I saw the low fat goat milk awhile ago, then I looked at the Calcium count and it was like 10%, as opposed to 30% per cup If you have access to raw goat milk, that's definitely the way to go!

I just ordered rennet and want to start making my own yogurt and cheese - I really miss my Russian style cheese curd - cottage cheese just isn't the same. I found a yogurt recipe that just requires rennet and some previous yogurt - if the place where you get goat milk sells goat milk yogurt, that would be the way to go!

Have you tried other calcium sources? Egg shell, oyster shell, calcium carbonate?

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I'm not too keen on taking calcium supplements at all. I don't know why, I just know I need to get it from real whole food....and I sleep better with more fat in my diet, so I'm not even sure why I'm considering low fat milk again .

Let us hear about your homemade cheese lindsay! I tried to make it once with local raw cow's milk, it was a total failure. Goat milk is sooooooo expensive that I need a "guaranteed to work" recipe before I'll give it another shot.

And I meant to mention this earlier @Janelle525....I don't know how old your babies are, but giving birth to my first child triggered the beginning of my thyroid issues. I'm not saying that you have thyroid issues, but your description of having a lack of energy fits that scenario.

Eating enough is important, as you already know, but if your body isn't using the fuel for energy and beginning to store it as fat while sending alarm signals (panic) then something is very off. Are you still nursing?

 

[InChristAlone]

I will reply later in full, but yes endotoxin could be involved. My worst full blown panic attacks happened after things like refried beans and a whole bag of dried mangoes. But also I have a particular times I am prone. Post breakfast, and 8 pm when parasympathetic lowers blood sugar. And yes I had one when I caught a stomach bug. But I'm also afraid of throwing up.

Yes I'm still nursing my 4 yr old. Some days more than others. I feel like I do need thyroid I just don't know that it would be a cure all for the adrenaline since I was on it when all this started. I've tried it a few times and got worse adrenaline by the 2nd day, I have trouble persisting.

 

[tara]

Plus I had been getting pounding heart at night following eating bigger meals towards the end of the day, and was losing more sleep because of it.

I've found it works better for me to eat more earlier in the day - as much as my appetite can handle morning till lunch time/early afternoon, and then go lighter later in the day. I think some of us can digest and use food more easily earlier during the day.
Glad you're happier about how you heart is running.

So I'm not sure why everyone says ice cream is stress relieving.

Not everyone. Seems to work well for some. I eat some occasionally, but I don't think it's helpful for me as a staple.

 

[tara]

now I'm wondering if I should purchase a yogurt maker.

Not trying to talk you out of getting a yogurt maker if you are going to use it, but if you just want to do a few experiments with making yogurt to see if you like the results before investing cash and bench space, you may be able to do without. I made a few batches a while ago using the lowest setting on the oven. I don't know the exact temperature, but at at guess, I think it likes somewhere between body temp and 40C. Or you can put your milk and starter in a glass jar and stick it in a hot water bath.

 

[Blossom]

I think it likes somewhere between body temp and 40C. Or you can put your milk and starter in a glass jar and stick it in a hot water bath.

Another idea is using a heating pad on the lowest setting wrapped around a glass container.

 

[EIRE24]

Taurine will increase bile output for a while, but then that effect wears off. I now take up to 10grams of taurine with no bile effects (I think it took about two months for the effect to wear off), and when it did cause an effect I just lowered my dose back to where it didn't have that side effect.

Will taurine increase bile even on a low fat diet?

 

[HDD]

@Janelle525 I was searching for something in my notes and came across the following. I had not picked up on this before but it's what you were referring to, correct? I wonder if adding sugar to the ice cream (like a milkshake) would help prevent the stress reaction?

AM: I wanted to carry on partly from last month's topic on You Are What You Eat, and a little bit more of a focused look at diet, digestion, and emotion - because I know that some of the things that you brought out in your most recent newsletter, as well as the prior one - it's kind of peaked my interest in some other directions. And I also have some questions from people that have been garnered since last month. Going back to last week, you mentioned the gut peptide called cholecystokinin was previously shown to have a crucial role in mediating the effects of intragastric fatty acid solutions on brain activity. They were saying that the receptors for CCK, this cholecystokinin are known not only for their role in digestion but also for roles in memory function and learning, and in the modulation of panic and anxiety. So there's this link between the gut and the emotions. So it's not just for digestion and picking up food and sending it off to the various departments that store it like the fat cells, etc. But it also triggers emotive events in people. What do you interpret from my suggestion that CCK's role in the stimulation of secretion of bile in the digestion and the absorption of nutrients, especially fats supports a link between this mental function and digestion...

RP: I think it's good to consider at least one other digestive peptide, the gastric inhibitory polypeptide - GIP. My general picture of the organism, for example, analogous to the sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic nervous system, the day and the nights of the nervous systems - everywhere you look you can see this sort of a polar opposition in two kinds of functions. One is mobilizing, the other is demobilizing and relaxing.

AM: That's the parasympathetic is the relaxing and the mobilizing is the sympathetic.

RP: Ya. When the organism is young and healthy, that opposition works very nicely for night and day action and rest, cycling. In the digestive system, when you eat fats and proteins, you secrete the cholecystokinin. When you eat sugar, you secrete the GIP which is also called the insulinotropic hormone [peptide] because it calms down, stops your acid digestion because you don't need acid to handle sugar, but it activates the insulin so that you handle the sugar. When you look at the effect in the brain, CCK activates Corticotropic Release Hormone [*corticotropin-releasing hormone] which turns on anxiety and stress, and the pituitary ACTH which turns on the adrenals which handle stress. The gastric inhibitory polypeptide responding to glucose has pretty much the opposite effects. In the hippocampus, for example, which is part of the brain that's expanded by opportunity and learning, and shrunken by stress - the insulinotropic hormone, responding to sugar, also has receptors in the hippocampus that stimulate the birth of new cells. So learning and stimulating experience and eating sugar have the same effect on your brain. Eating fat and protein, surprisingly, turn on anxiety and stress.

AM: Even protein, huh?

RP: Well...ya. That tends to lower your blood sugar because it also stimulates insulin, and lowering the blood sugar turns on stress. In the farther-down intestine...if you could be born without bacteria...they've created situations with cesarean birth of rats and dogs and pigs and such and keeping them in a germ-free environment, they find that everything develops perfectly. In fact, the animals live longer and are very resistant to obesity and diabetes and degenerative diseases.

 

[whit]

So, if it's sodium, you could try salting the ice cream.

+1 on the sodium.
I've had a very similar experience with high fat. Salting watermelon works well for me for some reason.
I think the potassium sodium and other electrolytes are crucial in sugar metabolism. I've used activated charcoal for the issue in the evening away from meals to great success for this as well so I concluded it was likely endotoxin related.
I've heard women have a higher need for sodium.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

RP: Well...ya. That tends to lower your blood sugar because it also stimulates insulin, and lowering the blood sugar turns on stress. In the farther-down intestine...if you could be born without bacteria...they've created situations with cesarean birth of rats and dogs and pigs and such and keeping them in a germ-free environment, they find that everything develops perfectly. In fact, the animals live longer and are very resistant to obesity and diabetes and degenerative diseases.

Mind Yer Microbes!!!

My own experience: Five years ago when I was on a ketogenic diet eating lots of meat and TONS of fat, it was the most stressful ever. I had terrible sleep and always felt on edge, like impending doom all the time. I was going through a lot of stressful life stuff at the time and my appendix had ruptured (just before I started the keto diet), but I had no idea how much of my stress was directly diet related.....hindsight is 20/20.

+1 on the charcoal

I've read that endotoxin can ride on little fat "rafts" chylomicrons...er something. Fat slows digestion too. So, if your eating more fat you gotta make sure you keep things clean and moving. I feel best going twice per day.

I've found there's an individual sweet spot for every macro and I'm pretty sure the needs are slightly different for everybody based on lifestyle, level of activity, gut flora etc.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Not trying to talk you out of getting a yogurt maker if you are going to use it, but if you just want to do a few experiments with making yogurt to see if you like the results before investing cash and bench space, you may be able to do without. I made a few batches a while ago using the lowest setting on the oven. I don't know the exact temperature, but at at guess, I think it likes somewhere between body temp and 40C. Or you can put your milk and starter in a glass jar and stick it in a hot water bath.

Another idea is using a heating pad on the lowest setting wrapped around a glass container.

Thanks Ladies!!! I'll do some research before I invest.....I've got a hankering for tzatziki and need goat yogurt!!!

 

[InChristAlone]

Have you considered switching to goat dairy or A2 protein dairy? Or making your own low fat or no fat ice cream at home (if you really like ice cream that is)? I recently made my own fat free Icelandic fro-yo. It was terrible (too thick) - had to dump it. Then I bought goats' milk yogurt (which is thinner) and it makes a fabulous frozen yogurt. I don't like the additives in low fat dairy, so if I were to make fat free ice cream, I would choose raw milk and drain the liquid from the cream. But that's me :) Goat dairy is naturally homogenized and the low fat versions have very little calcium in them - at least, that's what the nutrition label on Meyenberg says - it's like 1/3 of their regular dairy.

I don't eat ice cream for personal reasons, but I eat a decent amount of cheese (maybe 3 oz. per day of the aged stuff, but I'm picky about the brands, rennet, etc.) You could try low or no fat versions, but if it's the protein type that's bothering you, that's a different story. The A1 protein, from what I remember, is in the whey of the dairy and is affected by fermentation (meaning it's almost eliminated the less whey there is). I read a lot about this a year ago and stopped drinking milk - switched to half & half (less milk protein) and aged cheese (again, I'm picky and avoid GMO stuff and strange additives, etc.) I tried to make do on goat dairy, but it's SO expensive.

Anyhow, I really know very little about adrenaline issues - I don't get them anymore and I don't know when they stopped, but I'm in agreement with Big Peatowski - sounds like something endotoxin related. The one time I had a real panic attack was when I had appendicitis two summers ago - I happened to be on a high starch kick at the time, eating a lot of rice and potatoes. Felt great at first and then began getting massive stomach issues. I still feel ill at ease when I see a bowl of mashed potatoes...... Anyhoo, the fever gave me a horrible anxiety/panic attack - we're talking full blown hyperventilating for at least an hour and thought I was going to die sort of thing. This is usually linked to serotonin in the lungs, which is usually high when one has endotoxemia or gut infection.

So, if ice cream is causing you panic attacks, I would stop eating it. I am a huge fan of high fat dairy for the vitamins and nutrients, but I don't push more than 65 grams most days and I'm somewhat active. Anyhow, I know ice cream can cause issues for lots of people - usually intestinal. It could be the lactose, or it could be the protein type. It's obviously causing you stress, so it's worth going without it if you can.

I've been experiencing endotoxin issues a lot lately - it seems to be linked to the hot weather (cooler days are less problematic), as well as menstruation, which is a new thing for me these days. Since bacteria thrive in hotter weather, this could be the bigger issue, along with something you are eating. Have you tried activated charcoal and cascara? Whenever I get endotoxin issues, I take no mercy. You could try charcoal and cascara, followed by fruit and/or yogurt. Just a thought. But if you think you have endotoxin symptoms, I might not switch to starch until you know things are endotoxinless. But that's just my two cents :) Hope you are feeling better soon!!!

Thank you for your thoughts Lindsay :) yes I agree with you that I should just cut out the ice cream and figure out other tasty treats, I seem to only get cravings if my calorie density gets too low. And I definitely will heed warnings on starch increasing endotoxin in some cases. I dont do much potatoes for this reason, major acid reflux after a while. I tend to do really good on fruit and cheese. I wish I could just do that all day! But I tend to get bored and like variety.

I haven't notice charcoal having that much of a difference as far as adrenaline symptoms go, and I used to do cascara but it was causing cramping and since my movements are fairly easy if I keep up with fruit I'm afraid of any stimulant sort of laxatives. And yes the heat isn't helping, and could be another factor in mast cell/histamine leading to adrenaline as well. So many factors!