Ice Cream Causes Anxiety Attacks

[InChristAlone]

Lordosis got ripped off, she has NO arms!

I'm kidding....I didn't know what lordosis was, so I looked it up. It appears that it's very common among dancers using improper form or dancing on substandard flooring material (too hard or too soft).

@Janelle525 you dancin' all wrong er whut?

I'd say lay off the ice cream (I know you peeps are utterly SHOCKED hearing this from me) and maybe eat some raw garlic on yer carrot salad.

Do you drink OJ? One teaspoon of glycine added to each glass of salted OJ could bring adrenaline down.

You make me laugh! Yeah I have tried glycine, not sure I like it, I need to keep trying some of this stuff as there are so many variables. I woke up in a panic last night, my body was trembling for a good 10 mins. Mouthful of sugar calmed me down. I thought it might be because I drank a glass of water with charcoal before bed, and water never sits well for me, it seems to wash me out. But I just never know if its going to be a good night or not.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I could be in lordosis from sitting a lot

Dear Lordosis (Her Royal Highness, Queen of the Sit-A-Lot Slouchers)....You are a stunningly beautiful woman, let's do these Dopamine exercises and see if it helps to build some muscle and lose the fluffy-ness of which you speak.

I have MUCH more fluffy-ness to lose than you, 20 pounds heavier and only an inch taller (5'2") which could definitely be the cause of ma low back woes....but I'm an old hag, so that counts for something.

Mouthful of sugar calmed me down

But I just never know if its going to be a good night or not.

You could try keeping a honey bear bottle on your nightstand and nurse on it for consistently better nights.

 

[dd99]

...my diet helps with my bacteria and I also consume kombucha/sauerkraut/coconut kefir

Hi Westside. I found this comment interesting. I hadn't realised you ate fermented foods.

Do you think RP is wrong about or pays insufficient attention to gut flora?

 

[InChristAlone]

Dear Lordosis (Her Royal Highness, Queen of the Sit-A-Lot Slouchers)....You are a stunningly beautiful woman, let's do these Dopamine exercises and see if it helps to build some muscle and lose the fluffy-ness of which you speak.

I have MUCH more fluffy-ness to lose than you, 20 pounds heavier and only an inch taller (5'2") which could definitely be the cause of ma low back woes....but I'm an old hag, so that counts for something.





You could try keeping a honey bear bottle on your nightstand and nurse on it for consistently better nights.

You made my day, thank-you! Yes lets do the Dopamine exercises And I don't know why I never thought to do the honey bear by my bed, I guess I figured white sugar is so pure it takes away any chance of raising histamine.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Hey Westside PUFAS....is your fat free goat yogurt a product that you purchase in a store or are you making it yourself?

I just learned that Meyenberg does indeed produce/sell a low-fat goat milk....now I'm wondering if I should purchase a yogurt maker.

@Janelle525 ....I'm by no means an expert, but the symptoms you describe sound like they could be related to endotoxin and/or some sort of food sensitivity.

Unfortunately it takes a while to figure out which foods are causing the issue because there seems to be a threshold of tolerance....some days you exceed your limit and the food triggers problems and yet on other days the very same food does nothing.

I'm not sure if this is related to certain enzymes or histamine or what, but gut flora and gut permeability are definitely involved. There is NO perfect diet that works for everyone, prolly because we all have differing levels of certain microbes and maybe a lack of others, who knows.

One thing to try is to completely cut out foods that you suspect are causing problems for at least 30 days, then add it back in and see what happens.....and maybe not take any supplements during this trial period so as not to confound your experiment.

Have you tried taking activated charcoal to see if there are any improvements? Do you do the carrot salad?

The green label non fat one: Sierra Nevada Cheese Company - Goat Products

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Hi Westside. I found this comment interesting. I hadn't realised you ate fermented foods.

Do you think RP is wrong about or pays insufficient attention to gut flora?

I agree with the Peat view on things like carrageenan, gums, additives, excipients, and junk. I like those fermented foods I mentioned and they don't cause gas or endotoxin for me.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

So you do dairy, ok, great thanks! Do you do coffee?

I always experiment with periods of no dairy and some dairy. I like homemade coffee with pure water and good beans only, not the store or commercial stuff. A little coffee goes a long way. If you're prone to anxiety you shouldn't have it until you get things in order. And then once you do, having a small amount after a meal is a good dose.

 

[Rafe]

Going back to last week, you mentioned the gut peptide called cholecystokinin was previously shown to have a crucial role in mediating the effects of intragastric fatty acid solutions on brain activity. They were saying that the receptors for CCK, this cholecystokinin are known not only for their role in digestion but also for roles in memory function and learning, and in the modulation of panic and anxiety. So there's this link between the gut and the emotions. So it's not just for digestion and picking up food and sending it off to the various departments that store it like the fat cells, etc. But it also triggers emotive events in people. What do you interpret from my suggestion that CCK's role in the stimulation of secretion of bile in the digestion and the absorption of nutrients, especially fats supports a link between this mental function and digestion...

RP: I think it's good to consider at least one other digestive peptide, the gastric inhibitory polypeptide - GIP. My general picture of the organism, for example, analogous to the sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic nervous system, the day and the nights of the nervous systems - everywhere you look you can see this sort of a polar opposition in two kinds of functions. One is mobilizing, the other is demobilizing and relaxing.

AM: That's the parasympathetic is the relaxing and the mobilizing is the sympathetic.

RP: Ya. When the organism is young and healthy, that opposition works very nicely for night and day action and rest, cycling. In the digestive system, when you eat fats and proteins, you secrete the cholecystokinin. When you eat sugar, you secrete the GIP which is also called the insulinotropic hormone [peptide] because it calms down, stops your acid digestion because you don't need acid to handle sugar, but it activates the insulin so that you handle the sugar. When you look at the effect in the brain, CCK activates Corticotropic Release Hormone [*corticotropin-releasing hormone] which turns on anxiety and stress, and the pituitary ACTH which turns on the adrenals which handle stress. The gastric inhibitory polypeptide responding to glucose has pretty much the opposite effects. In the hippocampus, for example, which is part of the brain that's expanded by opportunity and learning, and shrunken by stress - the insulinotropic hormone, responding to sugar, also has receptors in the hippocampus that stimulate the birth of new cells. So learning and stimulating experience and eating sugar have the same effect on your brain. Eating fat and protein, surprisingly, turn on anxiety and stress.

AM: Even protein, huh?

RP: Well...ya. That tends to lower your blood sugar because it also stimulates insulin, and lowering the blood sugar turns on stress. In the farther-down intestine...if you could be born without bacteria...they've created situations with cesarean birth of rats and dogs and pigs and such and keeping them in a germ-free environment, they find that everything develops perfectly. In fact, the animals live longer and are very resistant to obesity and diabetes and degenerative diseases.

Well, that explains a lot. I fixed a dyskinetic gallbladder by following RP's general advice & experimenting with supplements. I've been in forums for people being treated for this without much success until they gave up & had the gallbladder removed. It's a chronic, painful condition treated with Bentyl. Note, a dyskinetic gallbladder is not diseased, but, from RP's explanation it is derived from parasympathetic derangement. CCK is what is used during the HIDA scan to see what the ejection fraction of the gallbladder is.
I thought what fixed mine was progesterone since there are animal studies showing progesterone regulates gallbladder motility. But it was not just that but the sugar, too. Cyproheptadine & doxycycline just gave me a break while my parasympathetic re-structured.
I can clearly see how this pathway could contribute to anxiety symptoms. I got the dyskinetic gallbladder after 18 months of HFLC & some heavy probiotic supplementing, an experiment that turned out badly for me. But this was added to years of overwork.

@HDD Where is this quote from, if you can? I need to show it to someone.

Note, this is not the same as a sludgy, stony gallbladder. Some of those are beyond complete repair. I'm not suggesting that a full-blown gallbladder attack is the same.
As a side note, this summer, just in the past week (which makes since b/c we are past mid-summer) I have been able to stop all supplements, even T3, to good effect.

@Janelle525 Watching your progress.

 

[managing]

I have been struggling with anxiety for over 2 years now, I find things that help like keeping my blood sugar up, decreasing stimulants, getting enough sleep, managing stress, but it seems I can't go a week without it coming back. I noticed that fat and protein are particularly good at turning on stress for me. And Ray Peat has spoken about this as well via CCK peptide. For those susceptible to panic attacks this peptide released to digest fat and protein can trigger it. I know there are plenty more triggers for anxiety, just having a blood sugar crash can trigger it, but I have monitored my blood sugar and I have only ever seen it low a few times, I mean low as in 70, usually when I test it its above 90, and I usually settle around 100 in between meals even if I'm anxious. The anxiety does get better after a meal if it goes to 125-135. That seems to be the sweet spot. But ice cream doesn't get me there, I think the fat slows digestion down so much that it's not giving me the carbs fast enough. So many times I have experienced an adrenaline rush after ice cream. It feels exactly like a loss of energy, I will start feeling cold even if its a hot day, maybe yawn a few times, and then I know the adrenaline is coming I will usually get some sugar in my mouth. It helps but if it goes too far it takes a while to feel back to normal.

I have been trying to experiment with going lower fat higher carb after reading @Westside PUFAs and @tyw experience with higher carb and it was remarkable, the first day I did 100 g of carbs for breakfast, very little fat and protein. And I didn't get my post breakfast crash! So I tried keeping this up but the rice was leaving me feeling full so slowly I had started adding back in more fats and using ice cream in the evening to top up calories. So then I switched to doing more OJ and watermelon instead of rice and that really helped! I had been doing coke in the morning and that wasn't making me feel good, so trying out higher fruit diet has been good!

The problem for me is sticking to something that works. I always fall off track. I got sick this past weekend and have gone back to my usual higher fat diet and it has left me feeling very bad again. Just had another adrenaline rush after eating ice cream. Taking the sugar took a while to work this time. I'm ready to make some serious changes. So maybe the people who understand what I'm saying with fat 'clogging up the system' could chime in and help me be consistent with this :).

Also I'd like @Westside PUFAs to help with what he actually eats, and if he is concerned with calcium and protein intake. I really want to make the lower fat work because I'm sick of being ill! He's not lieing when he says fat can put on fat, particularly with slow metabolisms!! I have cellulite for the first time in my life after eating 100 g of fat a day for several months.

Insulin resistance from endotoxin? More sugar = more endotoxin = more insulin resistance = lower blood sugar = more adrenalin release. Don't take those = too literally.

 

[InChristAlone]

Well, that explains a lot. I fixed a dyskinetic gallbladder by following RP's general advice & experimenting with supplements. I've been in forums for people being treated for this without much success until they gave up & had the gallbladder removed. It's a chronic, painful condition treated with Bentyl. Note, a dyskinetic gallbladder is not diseased, but, from RP's explanation it is derived from parasympathetic derangement. CCK is what is used during the HIDA scan to see what the ejection fraction of the gallbladder is.
I thought what fixed mine was progesterone since there are animal studies showing progesterone regulates gallbladder motility. But it was not just that but the sugar, too. Cyproheptadine & doxycycline just gave me a break while my parasympathetic re-structured.
I can clearly see how this pathway could contribute to anxiety symptoms. I got the dyskinetic gallbladder after 18 months of HFLC & some heavy probiotic supplementing, an experiment that turned out badly for me. But this was added to years of overwork.

@HDD Where is this quote from, if you can? I need to show it to someone.

Note, this is not the same as a sludgy, stony gallbladder. Some of those are beyond complete repair. I'm not suggesting that a full-blown gallbladder attack is the same.
As a side note, this summer, just in the past week (which makes since b/c we are past mid-summer) I have been able to stop all supplements, even T3, to good effect.

@Janelle525 Watching your progress.

It's taken from this interview: Digestion And Emotion, KMUD, January 2015

Thats interesting about the dyskinetic gallbladder.

 

[InChristAlone]

Insulin resistance from endotoxin? More sugar = more endotoxin = more insulin resistance = lower blood sugar = more adrenalin release. Don't take those = too literally.

Is it possible to have perfect blood sugar numbers and still be insulin resistant?

 

[managing]

Is it possible to have perfect blood sugar numbers and still be insulin resistant?

Yes. For many years, the pancreas is able to keep up hyper insulin production. So you don't see highs. And if the adrenals are adequate, you don't see severe lows either.

 

[Rafe]

Thanks @Janelle525

 

[EIRE24]

If your going to eat more starch I would recommend trying white jasmine rice. Digests easier than most fruits/potatoes in my experience and tastes really good with a scoop of jam on top.

If you think your bloated, it could be just a posture issue:

I myself find potatoes digest much better and easier for me. They are the waxy kind and are not a floury potatoe. Really tasty

 

[InChristAlone]

Yes. For many years, the pancreas is able to keep up hyper insulin production. So you don't see highs. And if the adrenals are adequate, you don't see severe lows either.

That's kinda scary! So I could be on the path to diabetes?? I mean it wouldn't be all that surprising with the stress I was under for years. I think I'm doing okay though in comparison to a lot of people, my weight is pretty normal for my age although seems I'm in an upward trend in fat storage in my belly though.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Well, that explains a lot. I fixed a dyskinetic gallbladder by following RP's general advice & experimenting with supplements. I've been in forums for people being treated for this without much success until they gave up & had the gallbladder removed. It's a chronic, painful condition treated with Bentyl. Note, a dyskinetic gallbladder is not diseased, but, from RP's explanation it is derived from parasympathetic derangement. CCK is what is used during the HIDA scan to see what the ejection fraction of the gallbladder is.
I thought what fixed mine was progesterone since there are animal studies showing progesterone regulates gallbladder motility. But it was not just that but the sugar, too. Cyproheptadine & doxycycline just gave me a break while my parasympathetic re-structured.
I can clearly see how this pathway could contribute to anxiety symptoms. I got the dyskinetic gallbladder after 18 months of HFLC & some heavy probiotic supplementing, an experiment that turned out badly for me. But this was added to years of overwork.

WELL SAID!!! Wondering if this may apply @whodathunkit.

Note, this is not the same as a sludgy, stony gallbladder. Some of those are beyond complete repair. I'm not suggesting that a full-blown gallbladder attack is the same.
As a side note, this summer, just in the past week (which makes since b/c we are past mid-summer) I have been able to stop all supplements, even T3, to good effect.

I've never had a full-blown gallbaldder attack myself and a scan revealed no stones, but I have definitely experienced the sludge-y underperforming liver/gallbladder with not enough bile on occasion. Progesterone helped. Eating enough high quality protein and carbohydrates helped too. Taurine for a while and glycine too....and making sure I'm parasite free (didn't know I had them until they showed up one day).

Like you Rafe, this is the first summer where I barely feel the need to supplement at all, it's AWESOME!!!

 

[thebigpeatowski]

my weight is pretty normal for my age although seems I'm in an upward trend in fat storage in my belly though.

Your weight is fine, but if your body composition is changing (less muscle and more fluff) AND it's accompanied by the stress responses that you describe, then I would be proactive and take measures....speaking as former "diabetic", but still somewhat "pre-diabetic" older woman who endured MASSIVE amounts of stress.

You are SUCH a lovely woman @Janelle525 and you have a lovely hubby and family. The devotion to your children is admirable and readily apparent....Damn Lovely.

I sooooo want to see you avoid the pitfalls that accompany that kind of stress.

How about some stress relieving music?....XOXO.

 

[Rafe]

@thebigpeatowski
I was just telling someone else a week ago, when I was still taking a lot of supplements, that I was prepared to supplement permanently. It's a cynical view. I knew the body could regenerate, restructure, but I didn't realize that my new symptoms derived from the supplements by the time I'd spent 2 months outdoors in hot, sunny weather this summer.
I had stubborn insomnia. JC, momma, it was just too much T3, when all spring I thought it was not enough! In some moderate area of supplement dosing directionality can be a problem.
RP says simply, clearly, that you'll get symptoms with supplementation you don't need. Things should be easier to read this coming year.
Good to catch up with you on the forum. Looking forward to hearing more about the bus.

 

[Rafe]

A little less Hunter S Thompson, a little more Don Juan Matus is nice, too.

 

[InChristAlone]

Your weight is fine, but if your body composition is changing (less muscle and more fluff) AND it's accompanied by the stress responses that you describe, then I would be proactive and take measures....speaking as former "diabetic", but still somewhat "pre-diabetic" older woman who endured MASSIVE amounts of stress.

You are SUCH a lovely woman @Janelle525 and you have a lovely hubby and family. The devotion to your children is admirable and readily apparent....Damn Lovely.

I sooooo want to see you avoid the pitfalls that accompany that kind of stress.

How about some stress relieving music?....XOXO.

Wow, thank-you for your compliments! Yeah I bent over backwards for my kids and it turned out not taking care of myself too nearly killed me! Or at least it felt like I wasn't going to make it. So I have come a long way but the fat storage came along when I quit coffee and started doing haagen dazs. I will see what it's like with less fat.

Thanks for that song! Lovely