Is coffee killing us?

[kimbriel]

Coffee is actually very effective at improving liver function, which is why coffee enemas are so popular in alt med circles. Some years ago a prescription of >1000mg of caffeine was frequently given to people with liver issues on this forum. Coffee increases glutathione by like 700%.

I can't personally stand coffee either. It ruins me completely. I'm open to the idea of coffee tolerance being a litmus test of healthy metabolism, however. A healthy person should feel very little effects from it

Yep - even gastroenterologists are now saying coffee improves liver function.

 

[mostlylurking]

Coffee is actually very effective at improving liver function, which is why coffee enemas are so popular in alt med circles. Some years ago a prescription of >1000mg of caffeine was frequently given to people with liver issues on this forum. Coffee increases glutathione by like 700%.

I can't personally stand coffee either. It ruins me completely. I'm open to the idea of coffee tolerance being a litmus test of healthy metabolism, however. A healthy person should feel very little effects from it

Coffee blocks thiamine function. From personal experience.

Interesting search results:

Antithiamine effect of coffee - PubMed

Antithiamine effect of coffee

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

no info is provided AT ALL, except for the title. Then, below under "similar articles"

Evidence against the reported antithiamine effect of caffeic and chlorogenic acids - PubMed

Contrary to earlier literature reports, chlorogenic acid (I) is shown to have little or no deleterious effect on thiamine (II) when the 2 compounds are codissolved in aqueous solution. Evidence from nmr spectroscopy and from t. l. c. determination demonstrate that when II is heated at 60 degrees...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Is there an "agenda" at work here? Back to the Jason Christoff theory....

 

[John mcclain]

YES.it is

 

[chrstn4o]

Coffee is actually very effective at improving liver function, which is why coffee enemas are so popular in alt med circles. Some years ago a prescription of >1000mg of caffeine was frequently given to people with liver issues on this forum. Coffee increases glutathione by like 700%.

I can't personally stand coffee either. It ruins me completely. I'm open to the idea of coffee tolerance being a litmus test of healthy metabolism, however. A healthy person should feel very little effects from it

I drank two litres of strong coffee today, and am going to sleep like a baby. I noticed after several liver flushes I barely even felt the boost from coffee. So I think you're right!

 

[PopSocket]

I drank two litres of strong coffee today, and am going to sleep like a baby. I noticed after several liver flushes I barely even felt the boost from coffee. So I think you're right!

2 liters of coffee ? No wonder you don't feel it anymore. People who abuse stimulants all day everyday whether it be cocaine or amphetamines also stop feeling it and can go to sleep immediately after the last line. And it has nothing to do with their livers suddenly becoming clean of toxins. What is the point of drinking 2 liters of strong coffee ? Can you please explain as I am a bit baffled.

By the way - coffee is the one drug that TPTB are pushing on the population and all normies drink it. Without any research papers or anything but this alone I know it cannot possibly be overall good for us except in situations when metabolism needs to be sped up for whatever reason. It is essentially a bean soup...

 

[AlaskaJono]

2 liters of coffee ? No wonder you don't feel it anymore. People who abuse stimulants all day everyday whether it be cocaine or amphetamines also stop feeling it and can go to sleep immediately after the last line. And it has nothing to do with their livers suddenly becoming clean of toxins. What is the point of drinking 2 liters of strong coffee ? Can you please explain as I am a bit baffled.

I agree completely.

By the way - coffee is the one drug that TPTB are pushing on the population and all normies drink it. Without any research papers or anything but this alone I know it cannot possibly be overall good for us except in situations when metabolism needs to be sped up for whatever reason. It is essentially a bean soup...

Totes incorrect in my book. Everything need be in context. Some people can practically use coffee in the context of a good healthy diet for them, think traditional Italian or French cuisine, and it is all fine, from eating to pooping. The context of being overstimulated, nervous system / Sympathetic N.S. Dominant, not much physical activity, not enough solidly good for you proteins and fats, leads to nervous/anxious/neurotic behaviour. I have personally taken 1000s of peoples full dietary and health intake, and you are absolutely not correct in judging this way. I had to say it.

If modern people just want to live on caffeine/Red Bull/Triple shot machiatos, etc... without proper food, that is not coffee's fault that the peeps' adrenals get depleted. See what I mean?

Coffee and coffee houses were banned in England in 1675 by King Chas 2 because peeps got passionate and talked and yelled and got riled up regarding politics, and the King was concerned they would plot against him!
Just saying, coffee, or green leaf smokables, or maté, Labsang Souchang, are not bad metabolism killers. People are either stupid or lazy to depend on any substance to continue their lives or work routines. Responsiblity.

 

[Brian Douglas]

*sips my delicious hazlenut brew with milk and sugar* ahhhhhh. Nope.

 

[AlaskaJono]

 

[AlaskaJono]

Drinking my home roasted Brazil honey processed, with a dash o milk, and a bit o raw sugar. Ahhhhh.

 

[Brian Douglas]

Drinking my home roasted Brazil honey processed, with a dash o milk, and a bit o raw sugar. Ahhhhh.

Sigh.

 

[akgrrrl]

Yes, I drink decaf. It's the taste and probably also the ritual for me, even though I don't drink it daily. Lately I also drank some coke without caffeine every now and then, because I found a brand with real sugar and without caffeine (and also without phosphoric acid) by happenstance.

In my experience caffeine amplifies the state I'm already in. If I'm relaxed, caffeine is not a problem. If I'm stressed, it stresses me even more. Since I'm stressed and depressed most of the time, I just can't tolerate caffeine.

Oh that's a good thorough answer, yeah I can see where it would magnify wherever you are ATM. Stressed and depressed seems like the whole country right now. What a mess. Hang on, Bud.

 

[chrstn4o]

2 liters of coffee ? No wonder you don't feel it anymore. People who abuse stimulants all day everyday whether it be cocaine or amphetamines also stop feeling it and can go to sleep immediately after the last line. And it has nothing to do with their livers suddenly becoming clean of toxins. What is the point of drinking 2 liters of strong coffee ? Can you please explain as I am a bit baffled.

By the way - coffee is the one drug that TPTB are pushing on the population and all normies drink it. Without any research papers or anything but this alone I know it cannot possibly be overall good for us except in situations when metabolism needs to be sped up for whatever reason. It is essentially a bean soup...

So why was Ray drinking 30 cups of coffee at times if it is so bad? To clarify, I said I don't feel it after liver flushes, I didn't say I don't feel it now. What is the point of doing anything, really? I drink coffee with milk or cream and it ups my linear thinking and allows me to be more productive at work. Why wouldn't I use tools that do that? I buy quality coffee and milk and have a well functioning liver, so I get net benefits from it. But I know people that are in such a precarious state of health that it will either make them jittery or nauseous or anxious or cause a lull a few hours later... Don't blame the tool, blame the craftsman!

Having said that, I also take breaks from coffee, some have been for a month and other for multiple months. It's another one of those things that simply is not for everyone. Those it doesn't work well for bash it, and those it does praise it.

 

[PopSocket]

So why was Ray drinking 30 cups of coffee at times if it is so bad? To clarify, I said I don't feel it after liver flushes, I didn't say I don't feel it now. What is the point of doing anything, really? I drink coffee with milk or cream and it ups my linear thinking and allows me to be more productive at work. Why wouldn't I use tools that do that? I buy quality coffee and milk and have a well functioning liver, so I get net benefits from it. But I know people that are in such a precarious state of health that it will either make them jittery or nauseous or anxious or cause a lull a few hours later... Don't blame the tool, blame the craftsman!

Having said that, I also take breaks from coffee, some have been for a month and other for multiple months. It's another one of those things that simply is not for everyone. Those it doesn't work well for bash it, and those it does praise it.

Drinking 2 liters of strong coffee per day simply does not sound like a good idea(to me), that's why I asked. Thank you for the response.

 

[chrstn4o]

Drinking 2 liters of strong coffee per day simply does not sound like a good idea(to me), that's why I asked. Thank you for the response.

I think a lot of the things some people on this forum do would look like insanity to someone just popping in for a look! Coffee is probably on the more benign side of the spectrum. Now please excuse me as I take my high dose of aspirin, consume 400g of sugar, kill all the bacteria in my gut with antibiotics and go on a zero fat diet....

 

[sunny]

Yay, you gotta be on this forum for more than minute or you may freak out....

I think a lot of the things some people on this forum do would look like insanity to someone just popping in for a look! Coffee is probably on the more benign side of the spectrum. Now please excuse me as I take my high dose of aspirin, consume 400g of sugar, kill all the bacteria in my gut with antibiotics and go on a zero fat diet....

 

[Sitaruîm]

I think the author of that article in the OP is a clown, and quite pathetic. But let's play the devil's advocate and, together, put forward a more serious critique of coffee/caffeine. Here's a study I found when searching for caffeine and brain blood flow.

Association between lifetime coffee consumption and late life cerebral white matter hyperintensities in cognitively normal elderly individuals - Scientific Reports

Coffee consumption is associated with cerebral hypoperfusion that may contribute to the development of cerebral white matter hyperintensities (WMH). We investigated the effect of lifetime coffee consumption on the volume of WMH (VWMH) in late life, and compared the effect between men and women...

www.nature.com

Here, logVWMH is the logarithm of the volume of WMH, which is a type of white matter brain lesion.

"Higher cumulative lifetime coffee consumption was associated with higher logVWMH in both sexes (p = 0.030). The participants who consumed more than 2 cups of coffee per day on average in their lifetime showed higher logVWMH in late life than those who consumed less. When both sexes were analyzed separately, these coffee-logVWMH associations were found only in women, although the volumes of brain and white matter of women were smaller than those of men. Our findings suggest that prolonged high coffee consumption may be associated with the risk of WMH in late life."

The authors of this study cite four articles that study the relationship between caffeine and cerebral blood flow:

Caffeine and human cerebral blood flow: a positron emission tomography study - PubMed

Positron emission tomography (PET) was used to quantify the effect of caffeine on whole brain and regional cerebral blood flow (CBF) in humans. A mean dose of 250 mg of caffeine produced approximately a 30% decrease in whole brain CBF; regional differences in caffeine effect were not observed...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"A mean dose of 250 mg of caffeine produced approximately a 30% decrease in whole brain CBF; regional differences in caffeine effect were not observed."

Dietary caffeine consumption and withdrawal: confounding variables in quantitative cerebral perfusion studies? - PubMed

Dietary caffeine consumption and withdrawal are potential confounding variables in cerebral perfusion and functional MR imaging.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

CBF = cerebral blood flow, AGM = anterior gray matter, PGM = posterior gray matter, WM = white matter

"Results: Caffeine reduced CBF (P < or =.05) by 23% (AGM, PGM) and 18% (WM) in all subjects."
Two of the four hypotheses tested in this study produced statistically insignificant results, but the one I cite in the previous line was statistically significant.

Comparison of caffeine-induced changes in cerebral blood flow and middle cerebral artery blood velocity shows that caffeine reduces middle cerebral artery diameter - PubMed

Changes in cerebral blood flow (CBF) can be assessed directly with xenon clearance (XeC) or indirectly by measuring changes in middle cerebral artery blood velocity (Vmca) with transcranial Doppler (TCD). The aim of this study was to compare the changes in CBF and Vmca following caffeine...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Vmca = middle cerebral artery blood velocity,

Bilateral measurements of CBF and Vmca were made before and after ingestion of 250 mg caffeine or matched placebo. The percentage change in CBF and Vmca after caffeine was calculated. Full results (CBF and Vmca) were obtained from 14 patients and 9 controls. There was no significant difference between patients and controls, so results were combined. Caffeine reduced CBF by 22% (95% confidence interval (CI) = 17% to 28%) and reduced Vmca by 13% (95% CI = 10% to 17%). The fall in Vmca was significantly less than that in CBF (p = 0.0016), showing that caffeine reduces mca diameter.

The effect of daily caffeine use on cerebral blood flow: How much caffeine can we tolerate? - PubMed

Caffeine is a commonly used neurostimulant that also produces cerebral vasoconstriction by antagonizing adenosine receptors. Chronic caffeine use results in an adaptation of the vascular adenosine receptor system presumably to compensate for the vasoconstrictive effects of caffeine. We...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Caffeine is a commonly used neurostimulant that also produces cerebral vasoconstriction by antagonizing adenosine receptors. Chronic caffeine use results in an adaptation of the vascular adenosine receptor system presumably to compensate for the vasoconstrictive effects of caffeine. We investigated the effects of caffeine on cerebral blood flow (CBF) in increasing levels of chronic caffeine use. Low (mean = 45 mg/day), moderate (mean = 405 mg/day), and high (mean = 950 mg/day) caffeine users underwent quantitative perfusion magnetic resonance imaging on four separate occasions: twice in a caffeine abstinent state (abstained state) and twice in a caffeinated state following their normal caffeine use (native state). In each state, there were two drug conditions: participants received either caffeine (250 mg) or placebo. Gray matter CBF was tested with repeated-measures analysis of variance using caffeine use as a between-subjects factor, and correlational analyses were conducted between CBF and caffeine use. Caffeine reduced CBF by an average of 27% across both caffeine states. In the abstained placebo condition, moderate and high users had similarly greater CBF than low users; but in the native placebo condition, the high users had a trend towards less CBF than the low and moderate users. Our results suggest a limited ability of the cerebrovascular adenosine system to compensate for high amounts of daily caffeine use.

 

[kimbriel]

I drank two litres of strong coffee today, and am going to sleep like a baby. I noticed after several liver flushes I barely even felt the boost from coffee. So I think you're right!

Curious what liver flush do you do? I'm doing my first liver flush today (hoping to get any stones out).

 

[Tzheng2012]

Bilateral measurements of CBF and Vmca were made before and after ingestion of 250 mg caffeine or matched placebo. The percentage change in CBF and Vmca after caffeine was calculated. Full results (CBF and Vmca) were obtained from 14 patients and 9 controls. There was no significant difference between patients and controls, so results were combined. Caffeine reduced CBF by 22% (95% confidence interval (CI) = 17% to 28%) and reduced Vmca by 13% (95% CI = 10% to 17%). The fall in Vmca was significantly less than that in CBF (p = 0.0016), showing that caffeine reduces mca diameter.

What’s going on here? Is it saying both the caffeine groups and the placebo groups had their CBF reduced by 22%?

 

[LucH]

I suppose there are 3 categories:
1) cafeine
2) patients with problems + persons (controls) without problems.

 

[chrstn4o]

Curious what liver flush do you do? I'm doing my first liver flush today (hoping to get any stones out).

I do a modified Andreas Moritz type flush without the plant-based dogma and such... hope your flush went well!