Is coffee killing us?

[Sitaruîm]

Bilateral measurements of CBF and Vmca were made before and after ingestion of 250 mg caffeine or matched placebo. The percentage change in CBF and Vmca after caffeine was calculated. Full results (CBF and Vmca) were obtained from 14 patients and 9 controls. There was no significant difference between patients and controls, so results were combined. Caffeine reduced CBF by 22% (95% confidence interval (CI) = 17% to 28%) and reduced Vmca by 13% (95% CI = 10% to 17%). The fall in Vmca was significantly less than that in CBF (p = 0.0016), showing that caffeine reduces mca diameter.

What’s going on here? Is it saying both the caffeine groups and the placebo groups had their CBF reduced by 22%?

The study studied people who were recovering from an acute stroke (patients) and healthy controls who never had such an event. What they are saying is that patients and controls reacted the same way to caffeine, meaning that this (the reduction of CBF) is a generalized effect from caffeine that is independent of whether you're recovering from a stroke.

 

[mostlylurking]

I do a modified Andreas Moritz type flush without the plant-based dogma and such... hope your flush went well!

Did you have time to read the info at the link that I sent to you about mercury?

I'll paste the link and info below:

WHAT NOT TO DO

When I was sick all the time with chronic fatigue and depression and anxiety I didn’t know what was going on. It never occurred to me that I had mercury poisoning. I didn’t even know that amalgam fillings were toxic. I thought my psychological symptoms were because I had a lot of things to be...

www.maybeitsmercury.com

-begin paste-
This brings me to the topic of today’s blog. In the book The Mercury Detoxification Manual, we put in fully ten pages called WHAT NOT TO DO!! This list comes from our own sad and painful experiences, and listening to the stories of thousands of people. Mercury is no joke! Make any of the numerous common mistakes when you are dealing with it and you can hurt yourself badly. And by hurt yourself I mean make yourself so sick you will wish you were dead.

Here is a list of what not to do. Some of the items have to do with redistribution. Others are agents that we have found make mercury toxic people feel worse. These mistakes are mercurial in their nature (to coin a phrase.) It’s not like you drop dead after doing any one of them. Some people can get away with anything for quite some time…until the bad reaction suddenly hits.

THE WHAT NOT TO DO LIST:

• Do not chelate with amalgam fillings in your mouth.
• Do not take chelators in any other way than dosed on their half-life.
• Don’t try and use cilantro to detox.
• Don’t use EDTA to chelate.
• Don’t use chlorella.
• Don’t take alpha lipoic acid for any other reason than to chelate.
• No intravenous anything other than vitamin C.
• Never do glutathione IVs.
• No challenge tests.
• Don’t do liver flushes if you are mercury toxic.
• No homeopathic detox remedies.

Further here are some supplements to avoid:

• alpha lipoic acid
• cilantro
• silver in any form
• EDTA
• IMD
• merthiolate
• mercurochrome
• methionine
• MMS
• penicillamine
• R-alpha lipoic acid

Watch out for fluoroquinalone antibiotics and gadolinium contrast

I’m putting this list here without explanation. If you want further explanation you should buy The Mercury Detoxification Manual where it is all laid out. You can also ask for explanations in a comment and I will be happy to elaborate.

(disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with the website provided above.)

 

[TheSir]

Snip

Technically anyone who has received vaccines, eaten even moderate amounts of fish, or has (had) amalgam fillings, is mercury toxic to some degree. The crucial question thus is how toxic one has to be before the above precautions apply. Which is demoralizing, since it's not really a question that can be answered, as estimating the degree of one's mercury toxicity is practically impossible due to mercury being able to cause just about any kind of vague symptom. How do you suggest figuring out whether one is safe to go?

 

[mostlylurking]

Technically anyone who has received vaccines, eaten even moderate amounts of fish, or has (had) amalgam fillings, is mercury toxic to some degree. The crucial question thus is how toxic one has to be before the above precautions apply. Which is demoralizing, since it's not really a question that can be answered, as estimating the degree of one's mercury toxicity is practically impossible due to mercury being able to cause just about any kind of vague symptom. How do you suggest figuring out whether one is safe to go?

Mercury is the gift that keeps on giving. There is no safe and effective removal process. Boyd Haley's product, Emeramide, shows great promise as being the solution but the FDA has been sitting on its approval for over 14 years.

If a person is aware that they have been exposed to mercury, for example via mercury amalgam fillings, I propose that they assume that they are never "safe to go". Because the mercury that they ingested via inhalation during the years they had the fillings is still inside them.

There are many sources of mercury in today's world, it is really alarming. The body accumulates heavy metals throughout the person's lifetime. Mercury is about 1000 times worse/more dangerous than lead.

Here's a few articles about mercury for your consideration:

Mercury exposure, nutritional deficiencies and metabolic disruptions may affect learning in children - Behavioral and Brain Functions

Among dietary factors, learning and behavior are influenced not only by nutrients, but also by exposure to toxic food contaminants such as mercury that can disrupt metabolic processes and alter neuronal plasticity. Neurons lacking in plasticity are a factor in neurodevelopmental disorders such...

behavioralandbrainfunctions.biomedcentral.com

The endocrine disruptive effects of mercury - Environmental Health and Preventive Medicine

Mercury, identified thousands of years ago is one of the oldest toxicants known. The endocrine disruptive effects of mercury have recently become one of the major public concerns. In this report, the adverse effects of mercury on the hypothalamus, pituitary, thyroid, adrenal gland, and gonads...

environhealthprevmed.biomedcentral.com

I've been dealing with mercury poisoning myself for over 60 years. I've found great benefit from high dosing thiamine hcl. This article about mercury messing up the pentose phosphate pathway gives me some understanding regarding how the thiamine is helping.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/50834315_Cell_damage_through_pentose_phosphate_pathway_in_fetus_fibroblast_cells_exposed_to_methyl_mercury

 

[chrstn4o]

Did you have time to read the info at the link that I sent to you about mercury?

I'll paste the link and info below:

WHAT NOT TO DO

When I was sick all the time with chronic fatigue and depression and anxiety I didn’t know what was going on. It never occurred to me that I had mercury poisoning. I didn’t even know that amalgam fillings were toxic. I thought my psychological symptoms were because I had a lot of things to be...

www.maybeitsmercury.com

-begin paste-
This brings me to the topic of today’s blog. In the book The Mercury Detoxification Manual, we put in fully ten pages called WHAT NOT TO DO!! This list comes from our own sad and painful experiences, and listening to the stories of thousands of people. Mercury is no joke! Make any of the numerous common mistakes when you are dealing with it and you can hurt yourself badly. And by hurt yourself I mean make yourself so sick you will wish you were dead.

Here is a list of what not to do. Some of the items have to do with redistribution. Others are agents that we have found make mercury toxic people feel worse. These mistakes are mercurial in their nature (to coin a phrase.) It’s not like you drop dead after doing any one of them. Some people can get away with anything for quite some time…until the bad reaction suddenly hits.

THE WHAT NOT TO DO LIST:

• Do not chelate with amalgam fillings in your mouth.
• Do not take chelators in any other way than dosed on their half-life.
• Don’t try and use cilantro to detox.
• Don’t use EDTA to chelate.
• Don’t use chlorella.
• Don’t take alpha lipoic acid for any other reason than to chelate.
• No intravenous anything other than vitamin C.
• Never do glutathione IVs.
• No challenge tests.
• Don’t do liver flushes if you are mercury toxic.
• No homeopathic detox remedies.

Further here are some supplements to avoid:

• alpha lipoic acid
• cilantro
• silver in any form
• EDTA
• IMD
• merthiolate
• mercurochrome
• methionine
• MMS
• penicillamine
• R-alpha lipoic acid

Watch out for fluoroquinalone antibiotics and gadolinium contrast

I’m putting this list here without explanation. If you want further explanation you should buy The Mercury Detoxification Manual where it is all laid out. You can also ask for explanations in a comment and I will be happy to elaborate.

(disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with the website provided above.)

Oops, I did read it earlier but somehow didn't see the liver flush part! Anyway, I am still here and kicking so I think some of these things can be taken with a pinch of salt. Most of them are prudent of course. BTW started the thiamine this morning!

 

[mostlylurking]

Oops, I did read it earlier but somehow didn't see the liver flush part! Anyway, I am still here and kicking so I think some of these things can be taken with a pinch of salt. Most of them are prudent of course. BTW started the thiamine this morning!

I've done a few things on that list too, and I'm still here too. My concern for you is based on my understanding that you just got your amalgams removed which, according to what I've read, can stir up mercury in storage. Mercury causes more severe symptoms if it comes out of storage and goes into the blood circulation. Sometimes it just decides to do that for no known reason. It happened to me; I got really really stoopid, couldn't make change, side swiped my car when parking it in the carport. Very severe brain fog for several weeks.

 

[chrstn4o]

I've done a few things on that list too, and I'm still here too. My concern for you is based on my understanding that you just got your amalgams removed which, according to what I've read, can stir up mercury in storage. Mercury causes more severe symptoms if it comes out of storage and goes into the blood circulation. Sometimes it just decides to do that for no known reason. It happened to me; I got really really stoopid, couldn't make change, side swiped my car when parking it in the carport. Very severe brain fog for several weeks.

Yes. But luckily the doctor doing this was really good and the protocol followed was very safe. Though I did add some extra orthorexic precautions like zeolite and charcoal prior to the procedure. And lots of gsh precursors etc

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Vasoconstriction of the brain makes me think of autoerotic asphyxiation.

Depriving the brain of oxygen or blood flow limits thought capacity and inclines us to do the things which we're already familiar with and with greater enthusiasm.

As has been mentioned, caffeine seems to improve linear thought, which in my opinion runs contrary to creative thought.

From personal experience, smoking marijuana has the same effect as drinking coffee with regard to motivating me to do the same tasks which I'm already familiar with instead of exploring new frontiers. This typically includes physical exercise, executing a job that I already know how to do, hear songs I already know, play video games I already know, drive a car, listen to podcasts I'm already familiar with, watch entertaining videos, and read on topics that I'm already well-versed in.

On a conspiratorial note, I don't think it's a coincidence that both coffee and weed are pressed in an authoritarian society that would prefer its citizens to spend more time as docile workers as opposed to being creative leaders.

Yes, there are countless examples of coffee and weed (ab)users who contribute greatly to society in one way or another, but that doesn't change the argument that most people who use these things do so as an escape tactic to become comfortable with their own lackluster existence. Painkillers have a side effect of making us think less about pain, whenever if we're to solve the pain, we ought to spend more time thinking about it.

Even though I'm putting together this thought of society being held captive by coffee (and weed) as victims of a Stockholm syndrome, I myself am not outside of these behaviors. Depending on where the line in the sand is drawn, I think we're all sheep at some point. Even a supreme leader is beholden to the reaction of his subsidiaries.

99% of my experience with coffee has been for it to help me be more comfortable with my existence from a psychological perspective. Most of the time drinking coffee has carried minor health consequences, although once in a while I get no perceived negative consequence at all.

To say again, the 'benefit' of coffee is the painkilling effect it has on my psyche. Dull tasks get brighter probably because my brain got dimmer... although the majority of society (this forum included) is inclined to hypothesize that their life feels better with coffee because it somehow makes their brain brighter. If there was a magic smart-pill, it wouldn't make accounting seem fun all-of-a-sudden. To the contrary, if there was a magic dumb pill...
--consider how happy a dog is to play fetch, but would a wolf share the same enthusiasm, day-in and day-out?

1% of my experience with coffee has been for it to help me be more comfortable with my physical existence by remedying a headache.

Small poison makes the booboo better.

 

[docall18]

Coffee messes my digestion up and causes weight gain. Straight caffeine is great though.

 

[Dolomite]

I really like the coffee good or bad discussions. I didn't drink coffee until I was about 25. It didn't take long until I thought it was depleting me of vitamins and minerals so I quit. Then I started up again and quit again several times over the years. Several years ago I was drinking 4 cups before breakfast, one at break and one at lunch. Then I started to drink one cup after breakfast, one at break and one at lunch after reading more Dr. Peat. Now I am about 1 1/2 years without coffee. But my chocolate consumption increased and I was becoming addicted to it like with coffee. It has been a week since I curtailed all but a small amount of chocolate and I am certainly more calm. I love the taste and smell of coffee but once I start it is all I want to think about in the morning. It is a time consuming habit, mentally and physically and I like not being hooked.

I did look up the International Coffee Organization last year and one of their big goals was to get people in developing nations to drink more coffee. I am sure getting more customers is big for monetary gains but it was interesting that countries that grow coffee aren't huge drinkers.

The following is from the International Coffee Organization:

www.icocoffee.org

Promotion and Market Development​

Promoting coffee consumption and developing markets for all types of coffee can make an important contribution to achieving a balanced and more sustainable world coffee economy.

Established markets in North America, Europe and Japan account for almost 53% of world coffee consumption. ICO producing countries account for a further 30% and emerging markets consume the 9%. The remainder 8% is consumed in other importing non-members.

Per capita consumption varies considerably from one country to another. There is thus considerable potential for increasing global consumption: three ICO producing countries alone (India, Indonesia and Mexico) have a combined population of 1.5 billion, but consume just five million 60-kg bags of coffee a year.

The ICO produces regular reports and studies on global consumption trends to guide strategic actions in this field and has developed several valuable initiatives.

Step-by-step Guide to promote coffee consumption: This Guide builds upon the experience of Brazil, where internal consumption has more than doubled since the 1980s.

It provides practical guidelines to increase demand for coffee and has served as a catalyst for investments of over US$30 million in domestic consumption programmes. Countries using the Guide have developed a range of tools to attract consumers, from comic books and theatre groups, to radio and coffee vans.

ICO CoffeeClub: In 2008, the ICO launched ICO CoffeeClub, a collaborative web-based community with the aim of promoting coffee worldwide.

The ICO CoffeeClub acts as a source of information and resources such as videos, presentations, discussion communities and news and is visited by users from over 150 countries. It is also a valuable facility for problem-solving, developing connections and transacting business.

Coffee and health

A constraint for increasing coffee consumption is the linking of coffee with fears about its effects on health by part of the population. However there is now significant scientific information available on positive health effects of coffee drinking.

The newly launched website on “Coffee and health,” from the Institute for Scientific Information on Coffee (ISIC) provides balanced, up-to date scientific information on coffee, caffeine and health to health professionals, academics and specialist health media. The website features three dedicated information centres, tailored to the specific needs of healthcare practitioners such as doctors, nurses and dieticians, the academic and research community, as well as specialist health media. The site includes fully-referenced, balanced information, based on the latest scientific research, as well as additional background data sourced from relevant authoritative bodies on a range of health topics including cardiovascular health, fluid balance, liver function, pregnancy, sports performance and type 2 diabetes.

The Healthcare Professions – Coffee Education Programme (HCP-CEP) is aimed at medical and healthcare professional audiences such as general practitioners, nurses, nutritionists and healthcare media. It is intended to dispel misinformation and myths that associate drinking coffee with poor health or specific diseases, and to promote balanced scientific messages in relation to health effects of moderate coffee consumption.

Materials include newsletters, brochures and websites, as well as attendance at key scientific, medical and health seminars and conferences.

 

[Tzheng2012]

Coffee messes my digestion up and causes weight gain. Straight caffeine is great though.

This is because the chlorogenic acid (spell check) in the coffee. If you look for low chlorogenic acid coffee you will probably find you no longer get the digestive upsets. Longevity warehouse sells some. Others promoted for health may also have selected that type.

 

[Tzheng2012]

I really like the coffee good or bad discussions. I didn't drink coffee until I was about 25. It didn't take long until I thought it was depleting me of vitamins and minerals so I quit. Then I started up again and quit again several times over the years. Several years ago I was drinking 4 cups before breakfast, one at break and one at lunch. Then I started to drink one cup after breakfast, one at break and one at lunch after reading more Dr. Peat. Now I am about 1 1/2 years without coffee. But my chocolate consumption increased and I was becoming addicted to it like with coffee. It has been a week since I curtailed all but a small amount of chocolate and I am certainly more calm. I love the taste and smell of coffee but once I start it is all I want to think about in the morning. It is a time consuming habit, mentally and physically and I like not being hooked.

I did look up the International Coffee Organization last year and one of their big goals was to get people in developing nations to drink more coffee. I am sure getting more customers is big for monetary gains but it was interesting that countries that grow coffee aren't huge drinkers.

The following is from the International Coffee Organization:

www.icocoffee.org

Promotion and Market Development​

Promoting coffee consumption and developing markets for all types of coffee can make an important contribution to achieving a balanced and more sustainable world coffee economy.

Established markets in North America, Europe and Japan account for almost 53% of world coffee consumption. ICO producing countries account for a further 30% and emerging markets consume the 9%. The remainder 8% is consumed in other importing non-members.

Per capita consumption varies considerably from one country to another. There is thus considerable potential for increasing global consumption: three ICO producing countries alone (India, Indonesia and Mexico) have a combined population of 1.5 billion, but consume just five million 60-kg bags of coffee a year.

The ICO produces regular reports and studies on global consumption trends to guide strategic actions in this field and has developed several valuable initiatives.

Step-by-step Guide to promote coffee consumption: This Guide builds upon the experience of Brazil, where internal consumption has more than doubled since the 1980s.

It provides practical guidelines to increase demand for coffee and has served as a catalyst for investments of over US$30 million in domestic consumption programmes. Countries using the Guide have developed a range of tools to attract consumers, from comic books and theatre groups, to radio and coffee vans.

ICO CoffeeClub: In 2008, the ICO launched ICO CoffeeClub, a collaborative web-based community with the aim of promoting coffee worldwide.

The ICO CoffeeClub acts as a source of information and resources such as videos, presentations, discussion communities and news and is visited by users from over 150 countries. It is also a valuable facility for problem-solving, developing connections and transacting business.

Coffee and health

A constraint for increasing coffee consumption is the linking of coffee with fears about its effects on health by part of the population. However there is now significant scientific information available on positive health effects of coffee drinking.

The newly launched website on “Coffee and health,” from the Institute for Scientific Information on Coffee (ISIC) provides balanced, up-to date scientific information on coffee, caffeine and health to health professionals, academics and specialist health media. The website features three dedicated information centres, tailored to the specific needs of healthcare practitioners such as doctors, nurses and dieticians, the academic and research community, as well as specialist health media. The site includes fully-referenced, balanced information, based on the latest scientific research, as well as additional background data sourced from relevant authoritative bodies on a range of health topics including cardiovascular health, fluid balance, liver function, pregnancy, sports performance and type 2 diabetes.

The Healthcare Professions – Coffee Education Programme (HCP-CEP) is aimed at medical and healthcare professional audiences such as general practitioners, nurses, nutritionists and healthcare media. It is intended to dispel misinformation and myths that associate drinking coffee with poor health or specific diseases, and to promote balanced scientific messages in relation to health effects of moderate coffee consumption.

Materials include newsletters, brochures and websites, as well as attendance at key scientific, medical and health seminars and conferences.

I wonder how people get addicted to coffee so easily. I have no problems starting and stopping. Maybe it’s because at most I drink only 1 cup of coffee? And I only drink it if it’s specialty coffee that I make with a pour over with specialty beans from a good roaster. Then the occasional coffee milk drink as a treat.

 

[TheSir]

I wonder how people get addicted to coffee so easily

For me it's because I will feel an intolerable sense of flatness the next day following use. Nothing is fun, my body is cold and I feel lazy and irritable. Funnily, I get none of these effects from stronger stimulants like amphetamine. When I was using it I could start and stop however i wanted.

 

[PopSocket]

For me it's because I will feel an intolerable sense of flatness the next day following use. Nothing is fun, my body is cold and I feel lazy and irritable. Funnily, I get none of these effects from stronger stimulants like amphetamine. When I was using it I could start and stop however i wanted.

Coffee is much closer to cocaine ( cocaine light ) than amphetamines in terms of subjective experience and side effects when used in bigger quantities. Drug dealers cut cocaine with caffeine quite often.

Cocaine leaves many people in a lot worse mental space if overdone during the comedown/next day (the flatness and irritability) compared to amphetamines that might even give some afterglow the next day if used "reasonably", no use of amph is reasonable by any stretch of the imagination.

Coffee if not really good quality also contains lots of other toxic stuff in it that linger in the body for longer. Its a dirty drug.

 

[peter88]

Drank coffee for the first time in months yesterday and I didn’t sleep at all… didn’t drink it past noon too

 

[TheSir]

Coffee is much closer to cocaine ( cocaine light ) than amphetamines in terms of subjective experience and side effects when used in bigger quantities. Drug dealers cut cocaine with caffeine quite often.

Cocaine leaves many people in a lot worse mental space if overdone during the comedown/next day (the flatness and irritability) compared to amphetamines that might even give some afterglow the next day if used "reasonably", no use of amph is reasonable by any stretch of the imagination.

Coffee if not really good quality also contains lots of other toxic stuff in it that linger in the body for longer. Its a dirty drug.

Interesting, did not know that. There was a definite afterglow with amphetamine. In this sense it's a more insidious substance because it destroys you quietly over time.

 

[GTW]

I haven't previously heard chlorogenic acid blamed for adverse coffee effects. Chlorogenic acid is in many foods. Chlor as in chlorogenic and chlorine refers to green, same as chlorophyll. The coffee terpenoids\diterpenes cafestol and kahweol, yes. However they can be reduced because they adhere to the paper filter if used.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

*sips my delicious hazlenut brew with milk and sugar* ahhhhhh. Nope.

+1

It is inorganic coffee, and like Ray Peat said, using coffee improperly causes problems.

 

[Sitaruîm]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0899900723002459#sec0014

Methods
We used transcranial Doppler ultrasonography to record blood velocities of the middle cerebral arteries in three groups of 15 clinically healthy young adults each: no caffeine, a45 mg, and 120 mg of caffeine groups. Transcranial Doppler ultrasonography provided simultaneous bilateral velocity of the middle cerebral arteries measurements while participants performed functional tests (hyperventilation and hypoventilation orders) and three cognitive activities (test 1, short-term memory; test 2, solving a vocabulary problem; and test 3, solving a math problem) each in 31-s tests with 1-min rests between them. Participants were assessed before and 30 min after caffeine ingestion.

Results
There was a significant decrease in mean velocity, peak systolic velocity, end-diastolic velocity, and heart rate after high caffeine intake, except in hyperventilation, which was only observed in peak systolic velocity. With the intake of a lower dose, significant decreases were seen with hypoventilation and with test 1. In hyperventilation, there was only a significant decrease in end-diastolic velocity and heart rate; in test 2, it was found in mean velocity and peak systolic velocity; and in test 3, only in heart rate.

 

[Sitaruîm]

The study I posted yesterday has a lot of references that I wasn't able to find when googling.

Caffeine and Cerebral Blood Flow | The British Journal of Psychiatry | Cambridge Core

Caffeine and Cerebral Blood Flow - Volume 143 Issue 6

www.cambridge.org

Summary

Two groups of normal volunteers had regional cerebral blood flow (rCBF) measured, by the 133Xenon inhalation technique, before and 30 minutes after 250 mg or 500 mg caffeine given orally. rCBF was measured in a third group of subjects, twice, at a similar interval under identical laboratory conditions. Subjects who received caffeine showed significant decreases in rCBF while the others showed no rCBF change from the first to the second measurement. However, the two caffeine groups did not differ in degrees of rCBF reduction. There were no regional variations in the post-caffeine decrease in cerebral blood flow. The three groups did not show significant changes in end-tidal carbon dioxide, pulse rate, blood pressure, forehead skin temperature and respiratory rate.