Low-Fat Diet, Hypocaloric Diet, Weight Loss, Metabolism

[Koveras]

Again, does not disprove what I am suggesting.

Koveras, have you tried it?

I think then currently there is a lack of absolute proof on either side of the argument.

My current diet is low fat, and I have not tried to create a fat free diet at this point primarily because of practicality and taste (and because it may not be ideal for hormone production). It would be interesting though and something to tackle perhaps after my next set of lab work.

 

[DaveFoster]

I think then currently there is a lack of absolute proof on either side of the argument.

My current diet is low fat, and I have not tried to create a fat free diet at this point primarily because of practicality and taste (and because it may not be ideal for hormone production). It would be interesting though and something to tackle perhaps after my next set of lab work.

Fat free is not ideal. There's some powerful inflammatory effects of saturated fats, not to mention androgenic effects as you've said; the amount needed for androgenic activity is low, however, around 15 g/1000 kcal and likely up to 20g/1000 kcal.

 

[Zachs]

Saturated fat is produced in the colon, if there is any androgenic property of saturated fat (there's not) you will still get enough. There is proven androgenic activity of cholesterol however but again, it's produced by the body.

I would say that fat free or very low fat 10% or less of calories is pretty ideal for youth hormones. It especially allows the vascular system to work optimally. Fat is definitely sub optimal for blood flow and saturated fat is inflammatory to the vascular system.

 

[superhuman]

Speaking of ideal is a little hard since i think it will depends. The less bodyfat and good metabolic rate you have, the more fat you can tolerate and get away with and maybe you even need some.
But i think for the majority esp if you have some fat to loose and or fat to replace like stored PUFA which we all have from previous shitty lifestyles. Fat free diet for a long period would be ideal for 99.9% of people, but its all a matter of time and place. Im not certain or sure that it will be ideal doing it forever

 

[Koveras]

Saturated fat is produced in the colon, if there is any androgenic property of saturated fat (there's not) you will still get enough. There is proven androgenic activity of cholesterol however but again, it's produced by the body.

I would say that fat free or very low fat 10% or less of calories is pretty ideal for youth hormones. It especially allows the vascular system to work optimally. Fat is definitely sub optimal for blood flow and saturated fat is inflammatory to the vascular system.

 

[nikotrope]

This article has a few studies showing low fat is < 20g of fat, everything else is not low fat: http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/

 

[Zachs]

Link to study, kov.

Not that it matters. Total testosterone means nothing. Shbg, test to est ratio and blood flow are what matter.

 

[Koveras]

Link to study, kov.

Not that it matters. Total testosterone means nothing. Shbg, test to est ratio and blood flow are what matter.

ARTICLES | Journal of Applied Physiology

 

[Koveras]

Link to study, kov.

Not that it matters. Total testosterone means nothing. Shbg, test to est ratio and blood flow are what matter.

Couple of things. ALT is still high but not in the ranges where it would mean liver damage. Taking taurine, glycine, caffeine, vitamin K2, theanine, biotin, thiamine, riboflavin, etc have all been shown to lower ALT. The first 4-5 of the list are especially powerful.
Your free testosterone is high while your total testosterone is close to the lower end of normal. Despite what you may hear on boards, it is your total testosterone that matters and the higher the free testosterone the less able it is to get into the cell and do its good. Given that LH/FSH are high it suggests gonads are not producing enough hormone and your pituitary is pushing them to produce more. Hypothyroidism is one known cause and the fact that your cholesterol is high confirms that not much of it is converted into steroids. The high RBC could be from the high free testosterone but it's hard to tell while you are taking exemestane.
Anyways, I think taking care of that ALT is worth it and the exemestane is likely not doing you any good so you can probably drop it. Given the high prolactin and low total T, something like bromocriptine could have a much bigger effect on your health. Have you talked to your doctor about getting some bromo, especially considering he knows you have high prolactin?

 

[Matt1951]

Koveras wins this point. Fat in the diet is good for testosterone production. Very low fat diet could be used to deplete PUFA, but if you stay on it long term, men could end up singing soprano in the church choir.

 

[Zachs]

This is simple minded talk coming from someone who obviously has not tried it.

Can anyone show me a mechanistic study on how saturated fat specifically elevates testosterone?

Kov, that is an interesting quote, I have never heard anyone say that total test is more important. I'd like to know his reasoning.

 

[m_arch]

Link to study, kov.

Not that it matters. Total testosterone means nothing. Shbg, test to est ratio and blood flow are what matter.

Do you know if progesterone lowers testesterone? If it does, i imagine its lowering estrogen more, and it seems to have a net increase in libido for me. But I guess others have reported different.

 

[Koveras]

This is simple minded talk coming from someone who obviously has not tried it.

Can anyone show me a mechanistic study on how saturated fat specifically elevates testosterone?

Kov, that is an interesting quote, I have never heard anyone say that total test is more important. I'd like to know his reasoning.

Quick search turned up -

Studies that suggest an advantage of higher fat diets in terms of hormone production:

Testosterone and cortisol in relationship to dietary nutrients and resistance exercise. - PubMed - NCBI
Decrease of serum total and free testosterone during a low-fat high-fibre diet. - PubMed - NCBI
Diet and serum sex hormones in healthy men. - PubMed - NCBI
Effects of dietary fat and fiber on plasma and urine androgens and estrogens in men: a controlled feeding study. - PubMed - NCBI
Diet and urinary steroids in black and white North American men and black South African men. - PubMed - NCBI
Influence of diet on plasma steroid and sex plasma binding globulin levels in adult men
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jc.2004-1530
Free fatty acids increase androgen precursors in vivo. - PubMed - NCBI
Dietary intake, serum hormones, muscle mass and strength during strength training in 49 - 73-year-old men. - PubMed - NCBI

Studies that are neutral:

Lifestyle and nutritional determinants of bioavailable androgens and related hormones in British men. - PubMed - NCBI

Studies that suggest an advantage of lower fat diets:

Relationships between types of fat consumed and serum estrogen and androgen concentrations in Japanese men. - PubMed - NCBI

Not much mechanistic.

Nothing examining very low fat diets (<10%) I can see except for some single individuals / data points from the study on testosterone and cortisol in relationship to dietary nutrients and resistance exercise in which case one subjects looks like he has moderate-high testosterone with 10% fat intake and another subject has very low testosterone with about 11% fat intake.

Nothing examining fat free diets, which to be fair are hard to achieve and adhere to long term.

 

[Zachs]

It's a shame that most studies are done so poorly.

Personally I have never seen anything to suggest saturated fat as any influence on testosterone production. Cholesterol and fat soluble vitamins, yes.

 

[Matt1951]

All the body building websites have threads generally concluding that an adequate amount of dietary fat is required to get high levels of testosterone. Those threads are easy to find with a web search.
Such as: Everything About Dietary Fat Intake and Testosterone Levels

"At this point it becomes quite obvious that you need to eat plenty of fat to increase testosterone levels, and that the types of fat you need to focus on are the saturated fats and monounsaturated fats. Whereas the consumption of polyunsaturated fats should be kept low.
Eating 35-40% of your daily calories from mostly SFAs and MUFAs would be my recommendation for optimal testosterone production. No more than that because you have to leave some room for carbohydrates and protein too. Also, avoid trans-fat like it would be the plague."

 

[superhuman]

I agree with Zachs.

There is also this book/clinic/program that is helping and fixing peoples low testosterone by using fat free/low fat diet. I just cant find the name. Gonna see if i manage to find it.

Like nothing will hinder testosterone more then estrogen, its just thats testosterones cryptonite. Nothing will remove estrogen faster then a fat free diet.
Also most of the studies done on testosterone and saturated fat link seems like it has more to do with the fat soluble vitamins then the fat intake. They typically use eggs,milk, butter etc. Some use a little coconut oil. But even those foods does not contain that much saturated fat and a good amount of PUFA with todays world food standard. But all those foods are good sources of fat soluble vitamins which helps testosterone. Like vitamin A, D etc. They also have good other vitamins and minerals esp eggs

 

[m_arch]

I agree with Zachs.

There is also this book/clinic/program that is helping and fixing peoples low testosterone by using fat free/low fat diet. I just cant find the name. Gonna see if i manage to find it.

Like nothing will hinder testosterone more then estrogen, its just thats testosterones cryptonite. Nothing will remove estrogen faster then a fat free diet.
Also most of the studies done on testosterone and saturated fat link seems like it has more to do with the fat soluble vitamins then the fat intake. They typically use eggs,milk, butter etc. Some use a little coconut oil. But even those foods does not contain that much saturated fat and a good amount of PUFA with todays world food standard. But all those foods are good sources of fat soluble vitamins which helps testosterone. Like vitamin A, D etc. They also have good other vitamins and minerals esp eggs

you manage to find it, superhuman?

 

[max219]

My personal experience with consistently eating very low fat for about 6 months (less than 20 grams) allows me to stay the same weight at an average of 4000 calories per day (sometimes m0re).I used to gain body fat on 2500 calories only 3 years ago. I am active however. Also, when I was eating an average of 40-60 grams for a 4-5 months, I only put on a little body fat while still eating an average of 4000 calories. I am going back to very low fat for the next few weeks to lean out.
My last year looks like this based on my daily log - 3900 calories, 35 grams of fat, 3.2 grams pufa, 710 carbs. And my body composition is almost the same. I am an active 5'5, 150 pound male.

 

[BastiFuntasty]

My personal experience with consistently eating very low fat for about 6 months (less than 20 grams) allows me to stay the same weight at an average of 4000 calories per day (sometimes m0re).I used to gain body fat on 2500 calories only 3 years ago. I am active however. Also, when I was eating an average of 40-60 grams for a 4-5 months, I only put on a little body fat while still eating an average of 4000 calories. I am going back to very low fat for the next few weeks to lean out.
My last year looks like this based on my daily log - 3900 calories, 35 grams of fat, 3.2 grams pufa, 710 carbs. And my body composition is almost the same. I am an active 5'5, 150 pound male.

Very nice findings, have those 710 g carbs been consisting mostly of sucrose from fruits or lactose of milk or did you eat starches, too?

 

[Such_Saturation]

Loving the wealth of data points at 10% though