tara said:narouz said:Is a turnip:
1. ...
I'm sorry, tara.
I'm afraid not.
Very good try, though.
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tara said:narouz said:Is a turnip:
1. ...
Zachs said:Inulin is a prebiotic/fodmap. You wouldnt think Peat would approve.
narouz said:Such_Saturation said:Well, anything goes, does it not?
Pop Quiz
Is a turnip:
1. a mostly starchy, carbohydrate-y root vegetable?
2. a nut containing a lot of PUFA?
3. a fruit composed mostly of sugars with about 50% fructose and 50% glucose?
4. an effective, albeit somewhat painful, baby suppository?
5. a root vegetable composed of about 95% water plus a slight amount of sugar and fiber?
6. all of the above?
7. none of the above?
Such_Saturation said:Try to understand him, thrive... try to eat like him, fail.
narouz said:Such_Saturation said:Try to understand him, thrive... try to eat like him, fail.
I am sympathetic with the gist of this, Such.
My interpretation of what you're saying is:
we should not strive, primarily, merely to copy exactly what Peat eats.
Instead we should seek to understand the principles underlying why he eats as he does.
I agree.
But I would add this.
The principles guiding Peat's dietary recommendations are numerous and scattered and complex.
There is no sin in attempting to round up those scattered suggestions
and distill--I will avoid use of the word "reduce" as it induces apoplexy hereabouts--them
into a summary form.
Rather than being a sin,
it would provide many benefits.
For one, it would be intellectually honest and scientific.
There is nothing deceitful nor unscientific about summarizing.
Second, it would provide an easy starting point for beginners.
Third, it would allow us to assess basic questions like
"How many have abandoned a Ray Peat diet?"
or
"Does a Ray Peat diet bring good health?"
or
"Do you gain weight on a Peat diet?"
etc...
(Just for starters. :) )
Curiosity about the exact nature of Peat's diet is understandable.
Knowledge of it can be helpful, in my opinion.
Especially when Peat offers advice privately,
one will find that that advice sometimes seems somewhat inconsistent with his general, scholarly principles.
Also, because his scholarly writings are so abundant,
there is a lot of room to inaccurately interpret his views.
There is a tendency to interpret his dietary suggestions
in the light of what we wish them to be--
what we like to eat or feel comfortable eating.
Given these difficulites,
knowing the specifics of Peat's own diet
can be a helpful piece of the puzzle--
the puzzle being: what is an optimal Peat diet?
...And that would really upset medicine if they had to consider everyone as a unique individual, all the way down to the way their genes worked, because there would be no exact definition of a disease, it would be "your disease, this month"
Having the power to assign names is a source of power and wealth.
Pavlov said that he studied nutrition to understand consciousness and the nervous system, because eating is our closest interaction with the world. Our brain is part of our digestive system. But eating has become highly institutionalized and influenced by our cultural beliefs. If people begin to think about the meanings of eating, they are beginning a process of cultural and philosophical criticism.
Such_Saturation said:If you notice, nobody really has claimed on that thread to have "abandoned the Ray Peat diet"...
Such_Saturation said:The refusal to simplify in that deceiving manner...
Such_Saturation said:If you take the hint that there can be no borders between what we think is the diet and what we think is the person, everything seems to go smoother. If at any time there might be lines, let them draw themselves. If you pick your diet off of an infographic, you are not letting them draw themselves.
narouz said:Such_Saturation said:Try to understand him, thrive... try to eat like him, fail.
I am sympathetic with the gist of this, Such.
My interpretation of what you're saying is:
we should not strive, primarily, merely to copy exactly what Peat eats.
Instead we should seek to understand the principles underlying why he eats as he does.
I agree.
But I would add this.
The principles guiding Peat's dietary recommendations are numerous and scattered and complex.
There is no sin in attempting to round up those scattered suggestions
and distill--I will avoid use of the word "reduce" as it induces apoplexy hereabouts--them
into a summary form.
Rather than being a sin,
it would provide many benefits.
For one, it would be intellectually honest and scientific.
There is nothing deceitful nor unscientific about summarizing.
Second, it would provide an easy starting point for beginners.
Third, it would allow us to assess basic questions like
"How many have abandoned a Ray Peat diet?"
or
"Does a Ray Peat diet bring good health?"
or
"Do you gain weight on a Peat diet?"
etc...
(Just for starters. :) )
Curiosity about the exact nature of Peat's diet is understandable.
Knowledge of it can be helpful, in my opinion.
Especially when Peat offers advice privately,
one will find that that advice sometimes seems somewhat inconsistent with his general, scholarly principles.
Also, because his scholarly writings are so abundant,
there is a lot of room to inaccurately interpret his views.
There is a tendency to interpret his dietary suggestions
in the light of what we wish them to be--
what we like to eat or feel comfortable eating.
Given these difficulites,
knowing the specifics of Peat's own diet
can be a helpful piece of the puzzle--
the puzzle being: what is an optimal Peat diet?
Albert Einstein said:It can scarcely be denied that the supreme goal of all theory is to make the irreducible basic elements as simple and as few as possible without having to surrender the adequate representation of a single datum of experience.
Ray Peat said:The Blood type has almost no effect, you can see in very different species of animal which have very different ways of living, you can see the same processes [lost] so there's a universal animal diet which is optimal, but the proportions vary with the type of activity and size, and metabolic rate and personal history. Your previous stresses will affect what you need.
andRay Peat said:If you concentrate on well cooked greens, the protein and minerals balance in leafy greens is about the same as milk, just less concentrated because of the high cellulose diluting it. If you can cook away or wash away the anti-nutrients, for example too much spinance contains oxalic acid which tends to take the calcium out of your teeth, and some leafy vegetables have chemicals that block your stomach digestive enzymes, but a variety of cooked greens will provide the same type of protein as milk provides as well as the balance of calcium, magnesium like milk.
Ray Peat said:Potatoes are almost the perfect food if very well cooked, because you want to break down the starch and the non-starch ingredients of a potato have almost a perfect balance of nutrients, b vitamins, essential amino acids, carbs in the right proportion, and the only thing that is lacking in a pure potato diet is vitamin A and vitamin B12. THey are a very balanced food.
tara said:I think it can sometimes be very useful to distill and summarise broad and complex information, including Peat's. But it just doesn't distill down to a very specific diet in terms of specific foods that Peat recommends for everyone.
tara said:You could hypothetically design a specific diet, but it wouldn't be what Peat would recommend for everyone...
tara said:"...and it wouldn't be much use for answering questions like:
"Does a Ray Peat diet bring good health?"
or
"Do you gain weight on a Peat diet?"
tara said:As soon as you make the diet specification too exac...
tara said:...you would rule out most people on the forum as adhering too it to begin with...
Again...inevitible with any distillation of any diet.tara said:...the answers would be 'sometimes, for some people, some of the time, depending on...
tara said:Lots of the foods Peat eats and recommends in various contexts are great for some people and very stressful for others, as you will have read here as much as I have. Some people thrive on OJ, some don't. Same with milk, potatoes, gelatine, coffee, liver, oysters, etc.
Albert Einstein said:It can scarcely be denied that the supreme goal of all theory is to make the irreducible basic elements as simple and as few as possible without having to surrender the adequate representation of a single datum of experience.
tara said:I think a good summary might be made as a list of principles that are likely to benefit all or most people. It would probably have quite a few conditional elements.
tara said:In interview recently transcribed by aquaman, Peat responded to a question like
Q: What is the optimal diet? with:
Ray Peat said:The Blood type has almost no effect, you can see in very different species of animal which have very different ways of living, you can see the same processes [lost] so there's a universal animal diet which is optimal, but the proportions vary with the type of activity and size, and metabolic rate and personal history. Your previous stresses will affect what you need.
tara said:andRay Peat said:If you concentrate on well cooked greens, the protein and minerals balance in leafy greens is about the same as milk, just less concentrated because of the high cellulose diluting it. If you can cook away or wash away the anti-nutrients, for example too much spinance contains oxalic acid which tends to take the calcium out of your teeth, and some leafy vegetables have chemicals that block your stomach digestive enzymes, but a variety of cooked greens will provide the same type of protein as milk provides as well as the balance of calcium, magnesium like milk.
Ray Peat said:Potatoes are almost the perfect food if very well cooked, because you want to break down the starch and the non-starch ingredients of a potato have almost a perfect balance of nutrients, b vitamins, essential amino acids, carbs in the right proportion, and the only thing that is lacking in a pure potato diet is vitamin A and vitamin B12. THey are a very balanced food.
narouz said:starting with a number 1 Peat diet
which is conforting and not too hard but also not as healthy as it could be for most people.
Etc.
narouz said:And I honestly can't see any reason why it would not be able to encompass in its generalities
what a Peat diet is for...I don't know?...like 95% of humans.
narouz said:An accurate distillation would not be intended to substitute for broader and deeper study.
Paul Feyerabend said:'anything goes' is not a 'principle' I hold – I do not think that 'principles' can be used and fruitfully discussed outside the concrete research situation they are supposed to affect – but the terrified exclamation of a rationalist who takes a closer look at history.